Over the copying &/or theft of ceremonies?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2014 11:04PM by Tristan.

Please understand this about Freemansonry: it has no central authority. It is all a bunch of individual, independent groups who have a set of rites that is mostly shared by the larger group, but which are by no means prescribed by any sort of central governing body and are by no means universal.

So the only Masonic group who could have any legal standing would be the lodge(s) attended by JS and his colleagues immediately before the Nauvoo endowment was put together. But even in that case, there are simply too many differences. The endowment never mentions Hiram Abiff or Solomon's temple. The handshakes are different. And so on.

The New York Firefighter's Union around 1870 had veils, passwords, three distinct taps, etc. At the time everybody in America thought that was perfectly normal.

Beyond that, how would they raise the issue given that both ceremonies are meant to be secret and not revealed?

slskipper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The New York Firefighter's Union around 1870 had
> veils, passwords, three distinct taps, etc. At the
> time everybody in America thought that was
> perfectly normal.

Thank God I don't live in America in 1870.

Religious rituals are not generally copyrighted. Even if they're published in a book that is copyrighted, they're meant to be used, and it would be pretty ridiculous for an author to try to prevent people from using published rituals. The only way you could sue someone would be if they published a book of their own that used your published works without crediting you.

I've heard that the Masons don't believe in laswuits, except perhaps in very unusual circumstances. Plus this concerns their sacred [secret] ceremonies which they wouldn't want exposed in court proceedings--so I believe they would be more likely to just let it be and "no comment."

For the record, I am not now and have never been either a Mormon or a Freemason. Just done a lot of reading and web-surfing about it.

Not 100% true, Masons do not believe they should sue other Masons. I'm not sure it would bother them to sue someone else. It is a "brotherly" thing.

Mormons have a weird and naive view of the power of the copyright.

Mormons have a tendency to think that anything the claim as copyrighted material gives them authority to keep it secret.

The reality is that copyright protection only protects their material from others making money from it. Most of the time it is unenforceable, as we witnessed Sean Parker and Napster break the music industry.

Mormons saber rattle a lot over copyrights, however, with current anonymous document hosting is it nearly a moot issue.

I seem to remember a number of families were financially ruined by music industry suits after they downloaded copyright files.

I would think that makes copyright enforcement far from impossible.

whywait Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I seem to remember a number of families were
> financially ruined by music industry suits after
> they downloaded copyright files.
>
> I would think that makes copyright enforcement far
> from impossible.


It broke Capitol Records, and would have broken the entire industry if Steve Jobs had not saved it with iTunes.

Yes they made some examples (big FU to Metallica) but it was a drop in the ocean compared to how much downloading happened.

Today, anyone with a rudimentary understanding of the dark net would make these charges impossible.

Slskipper is essentially correct.

The oaths are enforced if ever on the local lodge level.

Must have weighed on Horny Joe's audacious mind to recall what happened to William Morgan a couple of decades previously. Never mind that he also bedded WM's widow Lucinda.

The fact that the Carthage mob was made up numerous Masons leads me to believe that HJ & HS were merely meted out with equal measure Morgan's fate.

In 1844 the Grand Lodge of Illinois did better than sue TSCC.

First they declared all Mormon Masonic Lodges in the state to be clandestine, revoked their charters, and suspended their members.

Then they had Joseph Smith, Jr. and his brother Hyrum killed for committing the following Masonic Offenses:

1. Revealing Masonic secrets
2. Making innovations to the Masonic Rituals
3. Opening and operating Masonic Lodges without Grand Lodge permission
4. Initiating women
5. Violating the chastity of a Brother Master Mason’s wife

fraternally yours,

ziller

Don't get mad, get even.

And they fired up all those Mormon pioneers when Mormonism might have faded away when Joseph Smith made some more mistakes.

The whole purpose of the blood oaths originally was that those were serious threats to any mason who dared betray them. They wouldn't take you to court, they would enforce the penalty. That is not done today, but a couple hundred years ago it was a legitimate threat. The late husband of one of JS's plural wives wrote one of the first books exposing the secrets of the Masons.

I think there needs to be an Assassins Creed, Mormon edition where Connor goes after JS for stealing Masonic ceremony, tokens, and oaths as well as writing lies about Native Americans.

Was Brigham Young a "33rd degree" Mason?


No. Brigham Young was a Mason but was not a 33 degree mason (technically an auxiliary degree of the Scottish Rite). It would have been impossible for Brigham Young to become such, since that degree was first introduced in Illinois masonic lodges (the only lodges to which Brigham had access prior to the exodus to Utah) in 1857, long after Brigham's departure. (The 33 degree did not become formalized in the Untied States until the early 1850's with the work of Albert Pike and Dr. Albert G. Mackey.)

It is important to understand the nature of the appellate bodies in Masonry. While a 33 degree mason might sound impressive, in fact such a person hold no more authority in Masonry than does the typical Master Mason (3rd degree). The appellate bodies are under the control of the Grand Lodge of a state or territory and a Grand Lodge is made up of all the Master Mason in that state or territory. The highest office any Mason can hold is that of Grand Master of a Grand Lodge and the only requirement to be elected to that office is to be a Master Mason. Therefor the highest degree that any Mason can hold is that of Master Mason (3rd Degree). The appellate degrees are appendages to that degree and not “higher” degrees as they are sometimes presented.
Masonry in Utah

Utah territory had no lodge until 1872. Such a lodge would have been a prerequisite for any Scottish Rite appellate body to be formed.

While there were at least two abortive attempts to form a Grand Lodge in the territory by the Mormons, one by means of an application to the United Grand Lodge of England which seems to have been lost and never reached that body and another made to a Grand Lodge in Mexico which was rejected. Masonry by and large was not practiced by the Mormon population in Utah in Brigham Young's day. Indeed, the Grand Lodge of Utah was not formed until 1874 and it then imposed a ban on Mormons being members. This even precluded Mormon Masons from other jurisdictions from visiting Utah lodges. This would continue in some form until 1984.

Thus, it would have not have been possible for Brigham Young to have received the 33 degree designation while in Utah. Given that the 33 degree is an honorary designation (that is, it is given by the vote of others holding the degree) it would seem unlikely in the extreme that such an honor would have been given to Brigham who, at the time, was generally held in low regard. Likewise, the Mormons in general were viewed with disdain by the general population of Americans, and the above-mentioned hostility of the Grand Lodge of Utah towards Mormons also makes claiming that Young was honored in this way implausible.

Perhaps most telling of all is there is no documentary evidence of Brigham Young ever receiving such a degree either from the Northern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite of which the Grand Lodge of Illinois is a member or in the Southern Jurisdiction of which the Grand Lodge of Utah is governed. While in the early years of those rites some record keeping was lost or not well kept by the mid-19th century when Brigham Young would have been able to receive such a degree the records of both jurisdictions are very complete. Those records are silent in this matter.

-----------------------

So why was Briggy so proud of this blasphemous bit of Masonic adornment long after he was no longer a practicing accepted member of any recognized lodge?

http://texasaggie04.wordpress.com/2010/04/07/brigham-young-wearing-a-masonic-pin/

Oh I forgot.....he was practicing his heaven-sent Higher Masonry by then and just wanted to keep up appearances.