So I went to this event
http://templeandobservatory.org/?sc_event=minnesota-event after a friend brought it to my attention. I won't give the background of the Givens and their recent book since it's already gotten a fair amount of press here on RfM. This is just my personal impressions of the event.

In the whole eight years since I've exited, I have never attended any kind of meeting in which exmos or struggling Mos have spoken openly about any Mormon history issues or said anything less than faith-promoting (a consequence of living in an area sparsely populated by Mormons). So that was completely new!

There were roughly 30 in attendance. There was a SP and an Area Authority (or what ever they're called) present that I know of. Their presence was not formally acknowledged. I was acquainted with and talked to both of them.

In the introduction it was requested that the proceedings not be recorded and that any reports of the event not include names to protect privacy.

The Givens are very earnest people and seeing them live makes me more empathetic to their cause than listening to them interviewed on Radio West or MormonStories.org.

I really enjoyed catching up with Mormons I have not seen or seen very little of since my departure. I've always striven to keep it real, so I would never cut off friendly interaction on account of divergent beliefs.

In a nutshell I would call what I experienced the "New Age Mormon Apologist Tour". Unlike an old school apologist the presenters didn't feel compelled to allay concerns with pretzel logic (and thank you for that, BTW).

In place of pretzel logic I would summarize the advice I heard with the following:

* Don't be a literalist about Mormon history - liberalize your views.

* Embrace uncertainty.

* Find comfort in contemplating the mysteries (e.g. there was a fair amount of talk about Heavenly Mother and similar speculative ideas).

* Stay active in the Mormon Church because you are "Mormon down to your toenails".

I heard several expressions of "I am Mormon down to my toenails" or similar at the seminar. These are people that really, really love the Mormon thing on a grander scale. It's way beyond "testimony" IOW.

People in this situation are going to stick with Mormonism no matter what, and their logical mind goes to bat to come up with all the arguments it can to justify it (an idea supported by theories of cognitive science, BTW).

Their latest book is subtitled "Reflections on a Quest for Faith", and it certainly underscores this notion. It would pique my interest a lot more if they were on a quest for truth!

Although I am glad I went, for me I found the seminar threadbare on content that would entice me to return. I don't connect with Mormonism on a level beyond the degree that it's True. Truthiness doesn't cut it for me.

Interesting. Thanks for the report.

Truthiness is right.


When all they can come up with is to tell people to be mentally creative and stay because of the culture, that is very telling.

They know their "doctrine" is complete nonsense and you have to hold your nose just to be around it.

Sounds like people need to trim their toenails.

dagny Wrote:
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> Sounds like people need to trim their toenails.

Good one (snort)!

Religion will never totally lose its grip. I think the other prime function of logic in human evolution is not to seek truth but to get our own way.

Interesting outreach. Totally new.Probably do a lot to help those that want that kind of help especially for those that identify as Mormon as their culture also.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2014 06:21PM by SusieQ#1.

Thank you for the report. I have a couple of questions. Did this event cost $? If not, who sponored it?

generationofvipers Wrote:
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> Thank you for the report. I have a couple of
> questions. Did this event cost $? If not, who
> sponored it?

There was no charge and they even paid for pizza lunch and pop (caffeinated beverages included ;-). They even bought quality pizza from a decent local restaurant.

It appears to me that they have formed a non-prophet ;-) organization, and that org sponsored it: http://templeandobservatory.org/?page_id=40 It appears the Givens and Richard Bushman are major players in forming the organization.

As I stated before the Givens are very earnest in their quest to help people in their faith struggles. I didn't observe anything beyond that as their motivation.