Having only recently come to terms with the falsehoods of Mormonism, I have been encouraging my tbm younger brother to read the letter. He started by reading the ten articles the church recently published and yesterday asked to read the letter. He is an aerospace engineering major starting his master's soon, highly rational and intelligent. Ten minutes after I sent him a link, he calls me. He's out! He did finish the letter but it only took 20 pages for him to see the light. I cannot tell you how happy this makes me. My wife has agreed to read the letter, but she recently was called as young women's president (as in the day after she agreed to read) and two of the girls just lost their dad to a stroke and DW wants to be there for them and has asked for a month pause in our talks. I'm hopeful she'll still come around soon, and if you remember my first post I'm in t this for a slow and steady exit for our family. I just had to share that thanks to the letter I don't have to sit through that ridiculous temple rededication today! Wife's idea too....

That's awesome!

brother's departure is significant over the course of your life times.

Also, you wife could continue to assist the two young women without being officially the young women's president.

Also glad you don't have to wave the hanky in the Ogden temple today!

Congratulations.

The first 20-pages of the CES Letter text are on the Book of Mormon changes/problems/plagiarisms/fabrications etc. and ends the sub-section with the rock in the hat trick. That sealed the deal for me.

I would love to hear more about your brother's story (either from you or him).

Proof again that we CAN change a Mormon's beliefs by sharing the truth. Plant seeds people, we never know where those seeds may take root!

All that are left are my two sisters and their families on my side. DW's side is a bit more complicated... My FIL has been 1st councilor in SP for the past 10 yes and is now the SP... As are 4 of my wife's uncles... Her grandpa was SP and MP twice.... Ugh.

We need a sign with that link on each side of the I15!

I know, I hope to see a CES letter bill board next to Meet the Morons sign.
I saw at least 2 bill boards for the MtheM on I 15. I'm not sure how many
of them altogether... I can not stand looking at that stupid thing!!!

Hi all. I just joined but have been reading the posts for about a month now. I left in 2010. What is the CES letter? I searched the site but didn't find it.

just go to cesletter.com

click on this link...http://cesletter.com/Letter-to-a-CES-Director.pdf :)

Here's a summary on his webpage;

A native of Southern California, Jeremy was born in the covenant. A 6th generation Mormon of Pioneer heritage, Jeremy reached every Mormon youth milestone. An Eagle Scout, Returned Missionary, and BYU alumnus, Jeremy was married in the San Diego Temple with expectations and plans of living Mormonism for the rest of his life.

In February 2012, Jeremy experienced a crisis of faith, which subsequently led to a faith transition in the summer of 2012. In the spring of 2013, Jeremy was approached and asked by a CES Director to share his concerns and questions about the LDS Church's origins, history, and current practices. In response, Jeremy wrote what later became publicly known as Letter to a CES Director.

Letter to a CES Director very quickly went viral on the internet. The CES Director responded that he read the "very well written" letter and that he would provide Jeremy with a response. No response ever came.

In the fall of 2013, unofficial LDS apologetic group FairMormon publicly released an analysis of Letter to a CES Director. In response, Jeremy wrote Debunking FAIR's Debunking.

"I believe that members and investigators deserve all of the information on the table to be able to make a fully informed and balanced decision as to whether or not they want to commit their hearts, minds, time, talents, income, and lives to Mormonism."

Welcome to the board!

Please let us know what you think when you read it.

nothing as good as the Truth biting ChurchCo in the arse!

*** Victory Dance*****

that is great!! I keep trying to get up te nerve to send th letter to my bff and my lil sis.

I was at Costco today in American Fork Utah. It was totally packed, not at all like normal sunday.

I told my son I wonder what is going on at chuch that so many people were at Costco. Now I know. The ogden temple thing. so peeps don't have to go to church so it's ok to hit Costco, cause everyone around here knows the slowest day is sunday.

Awesome!!!

The CES letter needs to put into a very trendy looking small book that's sold at ALL Utah Costco's. It would sell like hot cakes, and Jeremy would have plenty of $$$ in spite of no longer paying tithing.

I think you're on to something.

Wannabfree, your experience gives me a lot of hope! My boyfriend had heard about the CES letter and he agreed to read it! I'm very anxious about what his reaction will be! I want to talk to my parents and brothers and give them the CES letter too. My plan is to wait until Christmas break. With only one semester left before graduation, I'll be letting them know that by then I will be completely out!

My wife finally agreed to listen. I thought I'd share the letter, but thought it might be too much all at once...think maybe I am wrong. Maybe push the letter to the top of discussions :)

A great way to transition to the letter is starting with the Book of Abraham/Race and the Priesthood articles. I think those are the two most troublesome in the series to tbms, and they lead naturally into the flaws outlined in the letter.

DNA evidence on Native Americans got the light of truth to go off for me.

The book of Mormon is made up. The nephites are imaginary people in a fairytale.

The is NO Zarahemla, No king Benjamin or nephite coins.

Resigned from the Mormon cult in 2006.

Today, we had family home evening, my tbm wife told the story of Jared and the ships. they were in these barges for 365 days I guess with all sorts of animals and the ships were hermetic except a small hole that was blocked half of the time so they wouldn't drown.

Questions:

How did they breathe for 365 days?
How did they poop?
How did the animals poop?
Weren't they smelly with all kinds of animals, their poop in the boat and not washing for a year?
Do you think they had sacrament meeting every sunday?

But don't worry guys, the bom is still true :-)

I just read the CES letter today and I thought it was great! It presented the problems in a very coherent and nicely laid out way.

I also clicked the links to see how the church responded (I'm guessing they changed their website when they finally admitted things). They're really good at mind games and to me, it seems like if someone is confused, that the church's answers might work to keep them in the fold. I mean, it doesn't really matter that the book of abraham is a total farce, so what if JS made it all up, truly it's just a matter of faith :D

Anyway, I hope a lot of TBM's read it and it helps. The only problem, is .. how do you get them to read it in the first place, if you really don't want to offend them and if you don't want them to think that you're trying to pull them from the church?

Anyway, I'm glad you guys mentioned it here, otherwise I may have never seen it ^^

> The only problem, is .. how do you get them
> to read it in the first place, if you really don't
> want to offend them and if you don't want them to
> think that you're trying to pull them from the
> church?

That's the key question. Most TBMs will immediately put "shields up" when they realize what it is. So you have to kind of feel the person out... some folks are ok with reading it outright, and others it's better to plant a seed by asking an innocent question like, "do you know how JS translated the BoM"? When they say what they've been told at church - "Urim and Thummim", you can correct them about the rock/hat... which most TBMs have no idea what it is. Or the BoA... so many to choose from.

Why does any temple need rededicating? Did the cultism wear off of the old dedication?
Is the temple not evil enough without a re-do? Which temple is it anyway?

Future generations of your brother will not be BIC. Sweat.

oldklunker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Future generations of your brother will not be
> BIC. Sweat.

Any math people here that could figure out what losing a BIC family with children representative of the LDS breeding program would cost LDS Inc?

Some very basic math:

Two income family @ 80,000 total (pay 10% tithe) with four children and the parents leave at age 40:

$8,000/ year until retirement at age 65 x 25 years = $200,000

Figure each child may have also payed $200,000 (minimum) in tithing over their life time (low-ball estimate)

Minimum grand total: One Million Dollars+++ plus all the free labor provided to maintain chapels, temples and missions.

Here's a quick look. I'm a law student with an offer to start next year at 120k/yr. My brother is going into aerospace engineering and has an offer to work with just a bachelors for 85k/yr. Assume he works for 30 years with an average salary over career of 140k, he alone costs the church 420k over thirty years plus offerings. I will likely work 20 years at an average of 250k (given my focus), I'll cost them at least 500k. Assume similar earnings for 1-2 kids each of ours, each generation will grow quite rapidly. Figure after three generations just my brother and I cost the church ~20 million plus