. . . after video is released showing him punching out his wife, Janay, then dragging her limp, unconscious body from an elevator.

And all the NFL does is suspend him???

Geezus.

Welcome to the world of mauling by men: It's the kind of sadistic stuff that history has always heaped upon women in the name of:

1) triumphant testosterone;

2) male-manufactured domination; and

3) the Sky God Guy God.


Here's the actual video of the elevator knock-out:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/tmz-releases-footage-of-ray-rice-punching-wife-124132772.html


And below is the current news story regarding Rice getting Raven-cut/NFL-suspended:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/after-domestic-violence-video-is-released--ravens-cut-running-back-ray-rice-183053516.html
____


For sicko supportive Biblical verse on this kind of primitive manhandling, see:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible7.htm



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2014 04:15PM by steve benson.

NFL players had a collective bargaining agreement negotiated on their behalf by a union.

The unilateral punishment that the league can impose is limited by that agreement.

I, too, would like to see him out forever, but I know the fault for that decision lies with the players (via the union) and not management.

also, thats all they can do on the spot, without a hearing, etc. 'Suspended indefinitely' in this case is most likely going to mean he has played his last down in the NFL.

All hell, er, hail to the players' union.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2014 04:40PM by steve benson.

If he wants a hearing, yes he is entitled to it.

If he pursues it, the bad thing is, he probably wins, at least against the NFL. He already had been punished for this incident. It was known he had knocked out the female. Did anyone really need to see video to know what it looks like for a professional football player to knock out a woman?

This guy is an out-of-control abuser. At least the Ravens appear to get that fundamental fact.

And, yes, people need to see the video, unless you are in favor of hiding it. Do you think that the Ravens would have jettisoned him had not the video surfaced?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2014 04:59PM by steve benson.

I know they would not have, or they would have cut him months ago.

I have seen the video. It does not change my opinion one bit from the first day I heard of this incident months ago.

It was clear then that he had knocked her out. I think waiting until the video surfaced to release him is to the team's discredit rather than credit.

I think the original two-game suspension was to the NFL's discredit, and I think trying to make up for it with the maxium punishment now does little, if anything, to make up for it.

For the record, I am in favor of giving the sports leagues near unilateral authority to ban, including lifetime bans, for such behavior.

I have no problem with arbitrated suspensions for on-the-field infractions, but criminal behavior should merit severe punishments. Swift and severe. There is no way anyone can make a case this punisment was swift.

We are not talking about what you heard months ago.

We are talking about what the world is seeing now.

This is not about you.

It is about the victimized woman and the video that graphically displays the brutality of her being victimized.

Try to get over yourself and focus.

(And, yes, the Ravens should have canned Rice months ago. The video only underscores that fact).



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2014 05:05PM by steve benson.

There was video then of him dragging the woman after she was knocked out. If it takes a video for you to understand the violence involved, then that is for you to deal with.

For some of us, the fact (one that was never disputed) that Rice knocked out the woman was reason enough to punish him.

I don't need a video of the incident to recognize how wrong that is to or think the woman has been a victim. Why the NFL, the Ravens or you need to see video to understand violence against women is beyond me.

Case closed

And, there you go again, talking about how YOU don't need another video.

Ever thought about how this subsequent video release might actually serve to accentuate the plague of DV and help this woman's case even more?

Try not to answer, yet again, that you don't need a second video. This is NOT about you.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2014 05:17PM by steve benson.

No it didn't.

Did you need to see the punch for yourself to know that the woman was a victim?

I know I didn't. I can see the result and know that an act of violence had occured.

. . . apparent to the Ravens, to the NFL and, no doubt, to many, many others.

You have a strange notion of justice--one that says, "Hey, I didn't need to see the second video."

You are one self-absorbed dude.

The second video has brought it home to the world, not to you. Step outside yourself and try to comprehend that critical component of this unfolding tragedy--if you can.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2014 05:22PM by steve benson.

If you find it a strong notion of justice to feel that severe punishment should be handed down as soon as it was clear the level of violence that took place, again, that is for you to work out with yourself.

The level of fallout heaped on the NFL when it issued only a two-game ban about six weeks ago was evidence itself that many people did not need to see the video to realize how serious this was.

. . . and your bizarre notion that no one else needs to see it, either. The second video underscores the horrible severity of the crime, bucko.

If you're looking for female companionship for a guy (i.e., you) who thinks he supposedly has got it altogether on this, a bit of advice: do NOT advertise these RfM posts of yours on any dating sites. .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2014 05:32PM by steve benson.

Please point out where I said nobody else needs to see it.

I said, more than once, that if you need to see it to decide that Rice needs the most severe punishment possible for the NFL, well, you might not be as much of an advocate for victim's of abuse as you think you are.

"Did anyone really need to see video to know what it looks "like for a professional football player to knock out a woman?"

posted by: whywait
Date: September 08, 2014 04:50PM
Re: So, the guy gets a hearing for criminally clocking his wife? Got it . . .

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1372546,1372626#msg-1372626
_____


Live by the vid, die by what you said. .



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2014 05:52PM by steve benson.

I stand by that question.

If anyone wants to, or feels the need to, watch the video, that's fine.

If you need to see the video to understand that it is very violent for an NFL player to strike a woman and knock her out, then that person really has a lack of undertanding of violence against women.

And why didn't they need to see it? Because you said you didn't need to see it.

Stand by it, dude. Indeed, you have to since I gave you your exact quote.

Again:

"Did anyone really need to see video to know what it looks like for a professional football player to knock out a woman?"

Your answer is an obvious "no," otherwise you wouldn't have asked such a disconnected question in the first place.

You sure can't blame this on your evil twin.

Or, then again, maybe you can.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2014 06:06PM by steve benson.

As I said (without multiple edits, I might note) I do stand by it.

If you did, you would have edited it out.

Then you deny having said it, which is why I quoted it.

Too bad you can't edit that. :)

(Edited twice to correct spelling. I type fast.)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2014 06:09PM by steve benson.

Most of your edits in this series have not been for typos, they have been material adds.

Oh, I would not have edited anything. As I am not a registered user, I don't have the ability to edit my posts.

What I said clearly was a qualified comment, one that I stand by. I don't think any reasonable person needs to see that video to understand that Ray Rice abuses women.

What came out months ago was enough information for that fact to be beyond a doubt.

The NFL should not have needed it to give him a long-term suspension. The Ravens should not have needed it to cut him.

Saying the video is not needed on top of all other available information is far different than suggesting the video should be removed from public consumption.

Rather, they add to it and the additions are made before I read any response from you; therefore, I am not adjusting my text to response of yours which I have not made. I add text and I correct typos regularly. I do not change text to conform with already posted replies that I have not read.

IF I was doing that, then Admin would have called me on it.

Now, back to your point: You can't see how others would need to see the second vid because you say you didn't need to see it.

I'm sorry but you are clueless.

Your add-ons are material changes to your posts. The Admins may regulate this site as they see fit, but ettiquitte for material edits on most boards is to put an ETA before an edit, just in case a reply has been started, but not posted.

I don't see why anyone who was aware of the previous facts would need to see the second video to form the opinion that Rice is an abuser.

Certainly there are people who were unaware of the previous facts, but none of those people work for the NFL or the Ravens. I gather from your posts on this thread to you were aware of the situation before today as well.

So, did you need the new video to make your determination that Ray Rice abused women?

. . what you have written. I was adding to what I had initially written before I viewed what you had subsequently written in our exchanges.

What YOU are doing is what the self-appointed, editing police chief in charge of spell-checking (since bounced from this thread) attempted to do: namely, minimize the brutally graphic and horrendous nature of the second video.

If you think that the second vid is not worthy of your attention, then simply ignore it. But please don't try to say others should do the same just because you do not find the punch-to-the-face film clip to be personally deserving of your time or consideration.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2014 09:26PM by steve benson.

You do rewrite to make material changes to your threads. Without noting in those threads what is edited.

If, in your little world, saying Rice should have been banned months ago is minimizing what the victim has gone through, then so be it.

What I have said, and what is clear to those with some basic level of reading comprehension, is that the second video should not have been necessary in order for the NFL and the Ravens to throw the book at Rice.

Seriously Steve, I don't understand the glee you take in creating an argument where there is none. There was no gotcha to be had in whywait's post and you made a whole lot of nothing into a big argument about your own interpretation of it. I thought the point of his post was absolutely clear: It is DISGUSTING that the NFL did not take the appropriate action the first time after KNOWING that he punched his girlfriend to the point of unconsciousness in the elevator and watching him drag her off of it and dump her like a bag of sand. Why the NFL thinks a suspension is warranted now only after seeing him do what they already knew he did is beyond me. Whywait was not advocating not releasing the video or that no one should watch it. Rather, that person was pointing out that it should not have taken video footage evidence of the actual punch to justify the harshest punishment available for Rice. I would hate for domestic abusers/victims to think that real punishment only results if the victim can produce a video of the violent acts.

I am, however, taking fundamental issue with those who either think the second vid doesn't warrant meaningful attention because they don't think it deserves it, or that typos are more important matters than slugging a woman into unconsciousness.

Not typos but material changes to your posts. Fixing a typo does not require an additional couple of paragraphs.

Bingo.....

I once visited an RLDS Church, before it become "Community of Christ" and the Presiding Elder there, who smoked, was a psychologist, and he told me that women were raped and abused "because of patriarchal religions". i.e. women were never raped or abused until men started worshipping male gods. Really...he said that. Never shit my pants.

The bigger problem is that the NFL and the Ravens knew what he did. He admitted doing exactly what the video shows. It wasnt until the video was released that they chose to do more than suspend him 2 games.

It's all about the money. Once the video was released, it gave a visual to the world what he already admitted doing.

The Ravens and the NFL knew they had to do something. The new indefinite suspension is all about business and not about doing the right thing from the beginning.

I do believe that someone can make a mistake and learn from it. I know I have done many things I regret. Nothing like what Ray Rice has done, but still things I regret doing. I would like to think that people can change. At some point, after counselling, a second chance should be considered.

In other news: you don't have to be a good human being to be a good football player..

I heard on the news that the video shows him punching and dragging his fiancee, who later became his wife. LATER became his wife? So what would he have to do, I wonder, before she would break off an engagement. Especially in view of the fact that abusers get worse, not better. If he'd punch you in the head and drag your unconscious body around even before you are married, in public, with cameras on him (whether he realized that or not) what will he do when you are alone, such as in your own home with nobody else around?

As a community volunteer, I worked with women who had violent partners. It was astounding to me at first how many would choose to stay put, again and again, rather than accept help to get out. The #1 reason I heard for that was "I love him".

Maybe THEY need to see a video of themselves getting beaten up by their partner in order to accept the reality of their situation.

Not that I mean to sound heartless against the victims of abuse. In fact, I often found myself relating to them, understanding their dilemma of not wanting to leave someone they had ties to and cared for even in the face of obvious major problems. In some cases, the abuse I saw could potentially be life-threatening. Still, across the board, from culture to culture and woman to woman, I saw many times that an abused women would return or stay with her abuser. In which case, I had to accept their decision and walk away, until the next time.

In the case of the NFL, I agree that it seems they are only coming down hard on the player now that the video has surfaced. Before the video, a 2-game suspension was given for this violent act. After the video, indefinite suspension (+ being released by his team). Does every victim now need video evidence before these attacks are taken seriously?

Regarding whether an abuser should be given second, third, fourth chances - there is good evidence that the violence goes in a cycle - it will recur and will keep getting worse. Perhaps if abusers are willing to seek treatment, if any is going to be truly reforming for them, then people can talk about giving them a second chance. For now, these institutions need to take the problem seriously and demonstrate that they are so doing.

Maybe the Mormon Church needs to instruct its volunteer bishops et al on how to professionally and compassionately handle this issue in their own ranks. That is, no easy blame the victim fallback position, and some heavy duty eval and treatment for the abuser, in addition to serious consequences. If that's what it takes to get their attention and demonstrate that abuse is a societal taboo, so be it.

As a cop, I was grilled and skilled on it and, when it ever involved physical abuse, it was an automatic arrest as a matter of state law (combined with my own sense of moral objection).

The NFL and the Ravens coming to this late come-to-Jesus moment would not have occurred (and would not have resulted in the Ravens cutting Rice and the NFL suspending him indefinitely) had not the second video come to the awareness of cyperspace today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2014 09:20PM by steve benson.

As a cop did you need a video of the abuse to make an arrest. Or is your need for a video before thinking action is warranted a new thing?

. . . that others don't need to see it, either.

What I am saying (emphasized here due to your apparent lack of comprehension combined with your desire to make the "proper" reaction to the second video all about your reaction) is that releasing the heretofore uncirculated portion of the videoed DV--where Rice slugs his wife in the head--and then drags her limp body out of the elevator like some kind of a rag doll--brings the primitive violence of DV into the public consciousness in a way that the incomplete video doesn't.

You appear to be too thick to get that obvious reality.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2014 10:02PM by steve benson.

Again, I ask.

As a cop, did you need to see a video before determing an arrest was warranted?

If not, why do you need to see it today to determine a severe punishment was warranted for Rice?

I recognize that you are a bit of a coward not to answer this question as many times as it as been asked, but I will keep trying.

It may have taken more time than it should have, but the Ravens made the right call. Baltimore is through with him. I feel sorry for his wife.

I've seen blog posts that quote statistics on success rate of therapy for domestic abusers. The quoted statistics state the success rate is 1%.

No, I don't think Ray Rice deserves a "second chance", especially since most abusers aren't "caught" their first time abusing. I'm willing to bet he's done this before.