Enron had leaks. The CIA's had leaks. The Pentagon has them, universities have them, charity organizations have them...tons of organizations with something to hide have had leaks.

So where are the copies of GA emails sent to each other on the church server at LDS church headquarters? Where are the financial report leaks?

Surely, there is some would-be hero, some Edward Snowden-type, with access to "sensitive" Mormon data, who has realized that the entire religion is a fraud. Where is he or she?

Hero man or woman - if you're out there, reading this: do the world a favour - do all the teenagers contemplating spending two years of their life in some rat-hole somewhere for Joseph Smith's fake Christian church a favour - and release the data. What is this "religion" - which seems to be less a religion, than a business entity - spending its money on? How much is it worth, while many of its members go to bed hungry at night? What are its profits each year? To what extent do the GA's realize it's a fraud, and communicate about that (via email)?

You might think this would be "betrayal". I don't think so. What it would really be is an heroic action for the truth. The real betrayal was when Joseph Smith decided to deceive others to get gain - an immoral decision which resulted in the impoverishment of many of his followers, as well as their injury - and death. Hundreds of people died for Joseph Smith's lies, and even today, missionaries die trying to bring people into his fake religion. Joseph Smith's betrayal continues on every minute that those in the know help keep his deception secret.

If people - after having access to the truth - decide they want to be Mormons anyway, they can go ahead. But Hero Man or Woman, give the world that access. They - we - deserve it, before we spend all that time away from our families, and give a presumably-already-rich organization our money, and risk our lives in Latin America or Africa trying to further Joseph Smith's deception.

Be the hero.

T.

(tcrbachman@gmail.com)

I can tell you how much my stake spent on office supplies, but that's about it. I can't imagine that many people have access, and I think the motivation to keep it secret is different than that for other organizations.

I doubt there are many who know the whole picture. Any leak could be dealt with very harshly. Does the sacred security force include Danite-like folks?

I think we may be seeing more. Like the Nazis, Mormons love meticulous record keeping.

Add in that a copier is not even needed now, as most phones can take crystal clear pics.

I am certain Julian Assange would be happy to host such documents.

The Church requires Non-Disclosure Agreements for many if not all employees. There would be serious consequences for the leaker if they are discovered.

I wish it would happen though.

The worst possible consequence would be a lawsuit followed by bankruptcy. No criminal charges whatsoever, unless you physically took something. Just bring your own flash drive, and be selective about which files you download.

A lawsuit could include an injunction against further leaks, which could in turn lead to criminal sanctions. So you have one chance to do it right. Collect everything you need and then publicize it all at once.

Sure would love to see a leak someday.

I hope I live long enough to see the day when the finances and fraud (can't have that much money without fraud) comes to light. Too bad the US government allows churches to fleece their flocks without requiring financial disclosures. Boner.

And I'd guess that TSCC has a lot of lobby power behind them to keep it that way. A $50 billion corporation carries a lot of weight. At least that's the ballpark number I've gleaned from my studies.

I find it surprising also, but I do think that the Strengthening the Member Committee is alive, strong and used. I tend to think that it carries a lot of power to threaten, act, and keep people in line, and is a force to be reckoned with.

Remember the interview where the Do Do, Jeffrey Holland lied, got caught lying and was forced to acknowledge that the Committee was alive and well. To me, this was an example of how the Church-Cult would rather not have this item discussed and brought to the fore front. Let people forget about it, keep it under wrap, and you can let the committee take care of business quietly and secretly.

And, I think they do.

That's why a really effective leak would have to be done all at once, by someone under no prior suspicion. So don't get impatient with our brothers and sisters in the COB. They can't release tantalizing hints, because that would destroy the trust they need to locate reliable information and conclusive proof. Some of them just have to take their time, which could mean 5 or 10 years.

I am sure the church with all of its former intel and military employees has taken the best ideas from around the world.

First the person would need a sacred or top sacred clearance. I am sure the church does its own vetting, vs using a contractor.

Then there would be fancy non disclosure agreements.

Then I would wager that no cell phones or flash drives would be allowed in sensitive areas. Many government computers no longer even have a port for flash drives.

Then the information is most likely very compartmentalize, so no one has more than a small part of the puzzle.

Then, who knows if the information can be independently verified. I bet there is a lot of lying to the lord about building conditions and actual property and investment values.

It would be interesting if bishops published ward budgets and financial reports. Maybe starting small would lead to eventual larger reports.

Lol, "top-sacred clearance". Love it!

I have the 2013 Australian financial report. It shows they gave ZERO to charity in that year.

I'll email it Tal if you want.

ozpoof Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have the 2013 Australian financial report. It
> shows they gave ZERO to charity in that year.
>
> I'll email it Tal if you want.


Wiki leaks,scribd, or the rd site that must not be mentioned would be a good place to host that document for the world to see.

The security is so tight that NO-ONE knows it all. That includes the "profit" and the FP and the Q12. It is tighter than the Vatican bank. BTW, a few years back our stake had a speaker who explained most of the procedures TSCC followed. It was rather mundane.

I wouldn't be surprised if there .are no emails on sensitive issues. I suspect issues like watering down the preface of the BoM are only discussed in the weekly Q15 meeting, all minutes taken only by the secretary to the FP, and are kept on a computer not connected to any network.

The hard drives of this and the Presiding Bishop computer might have 3 mirrored backups, one kept in house, one at the granite vaults, and one at at secret off-site location, all kept in sealed locked containers too heavy to easily steal.

As an aside, I strongly suspect that all jobs giving access to sensitive church financial or policy data requires maleness and a TR, and an ongoing high grade security clearance. These jobs are rotated between employees frequently and at random intervals.

Policy discussions can be completely sealed from electronic access. Banking however simply is not possible anymore without using computer networks. They are highly secure, but the possibility of leaks exist. Plus land ownership, which LDS Inc seems to favor, leaves a paper trail in government records. LDS Inc can obscure ownership, but they have to have enough of a record trail to be able to prove ownership in court.

Looking forward to Michael Quinn's book on church finances, and I hope some day a major leak happens.

I think they have certain people (those who are privy to the Ensign Fund and the other big financial stuff) sign non-disclosures that legally threaten to take away their who lives--their savings, their houses, everything--kind of like they do with the general authorities.

I don't think there's any hope that one of the handful of people who have legitimate access to the data would leak it. The only way it will come out is if a hacker, like Anonymous, got interested enough to target them. And Anonymous probably has bigger fish to fry and never heard of, or doesn't care about mormons.

Non disclosure agreements are of no value if the information is posted anonymously.

LDS inc hopefully will learn this the hard way.

If they really are the restoration (as they claim) of the original church of Jesus who preached charity, love,humility and forgiveness, why do they have the secrets, strong arm security dept, and money secrets they do? It sounds less like a church and more like an empire building organization.

The "climate warming" data at the I.P.C.C. center of East Anglia University (U.K.) was hacked and published. It proved that the Keepers of the Sacred Data had altered them--faking some outright--so that the Sacred Truth (the algorithms that predicted the Coming Climate Apocalypse) would not be doubted.

But most sheeple continue to believe the myth, allowing the High Priests to collect their tithe (taxes, carbon credits, higher utility rates, etc.) whether we believe in the Church of Global Warming or not.

If the inner sanctum of the COB were busted wide open, I imagine a lot of people would continue to "uphold the church," some quite vociferously. The leaker would be denounced and villified. It would take years, perhaps decades and generations, for people to really accept this.

As Twain said, persuading a person that he is wrong is harder than persuading him of a position in the first place.

It's like guarding a secret recipe. No one person knows all the ingredients.

Also, the mouse is in charge of the cheese! They audit themselves. No outside auditors.

IF church employees have a separate retirement plan (IRA, etc), I don't think the Corp. can touch it; are ChurchCo employees in the Social Security system, or exempt?

it would be a far reach for ChurchCo to threaten an employees real estate or personal property, but IDK.

As I understand it, the individuals who have access to the Church financial reports have already gone through the looking glass. In that they have signed up to living the law of consecration and handed over their worldly assets to the Church. If they were to leave the Church they would end up flat broke. I'm sure that predicament is leveraged in terms of confidentiality.

Hundreds (or at least tens) of employees round the world have access to church financial reports and have not signed up to any consecration etc. other than that done in the temple by all. Also, in financial statements are on public file.certain countries

As I stated above, there are probably only 8 that know the total overall position, the total consolidation of financial reports. They have sworn agreements for sure.

I agree, it's a small number that have access to the finances, and then only one part, most likely. I recall someone saying that only the top three or the 12, not sure of the exact number, even know the total picture. This is a huge empire, very diversified. Those that are privy to financial info from the top are well vetted. They won't make a mistake about that.

Many of you will remember that they used to put out a financial report and discontinued it. I think they stopped in... 1957? Someone will know the exact date.

One more thought. The records shown to the FP and Q12 are not true but exaggerate the state of financial affairs. They only get the "bottom line". Those below have lied and would possibly be subject to criminal penalties for fraud and theft. Hence, they will never disclose. Remember that Saddam Hussein thought he had all those weapons of mass destruction he had ordered. But, like those in Alice in Wonderland painting the roses red, his underlings lied to him. Human nature when one underperforms and can hide it. In the Vatican there was a huge financial scandal. The leadership of TSCC is willing to be blind and to lead others in blind obedience.

Anyway about it, this corporation should not be subsidized by the American tax payer because they label themselves as an actual religion.

LDS Inc is a hedge fund with temples.

(not an atty) I don't think anyone would consider it 'fraud' for disclosing accurate info.

as far as 'theft'... is taking information 'theft'?
it's usually considered regarding tangible property.


I do agree that ChurchCo has gone to extra-ordinary lengths to protect its information; isn't that enough of an indication of its intent?

The crime is not the disclosure but because anyone with the information has been part of the frauds perpetrated whether actively or by covering up. When the lid blows, and eventually it will, the explosion will be heard around the world. For allowing his own ignorance, even the prophet on that day may resign like Pope Benedict. And TSCC has no Francis to come from the Q12.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2014 12:15PM by rhgc.

Intent? The intent is to keep a private organizations finances private. Certainly, the LDS Church is not the only one that does that.

No, the intent of non-disclosure is to prevent people from knowing exactly what the investments are and, also, after a time to prevent people knowing about misdeeds.

The intent of the non disclosures is to conceal that there is far less money in the coffers than the membership or the world believes.

There have been far too many people with their fingers in the cookie jar.