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Posted by: outsider ( )
Date: August 30, 2014 09:25AM

So, all of the non-tithe payers are going to be burned into crispy treats when Golden Boy returns.

There are somewhere between 3 to 5 million active members, of which maybe 50% pay a full tithe. I have no idea on that, but let's just use those numbers.

This leaves about 1.5 to 2.5 million members who are going to have to babysit the 700 million babies, toddlers and children ages 0 to 7 who are incapable of committing sin but whose parents will be toast?

Sure, there will be a few resurrected Mormons coming back to help out, but this is going to be baby sitting from hell.

Oh wait. Stop the presses. Rereading the BoM and the Old Testament, it looks like God kills everyone, man, woman, child and baby whenever he gets pissed, despite his insistence that children are without sin.

The NOM want to have this loving god and a personal relationship with him, but I'm staying way the hell away from anyone like that.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: August 30, 2014 09:41AM

This is proof that religious eschatology and practical thinking don't go hand in hand...

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: August 30, 2014 11:57AM

But just like they do today in LDS families, the older kids will look after the little ones -- while Daddy and Mommy go to meetings.

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Posted by: GQ Cannonball ( )
Date: August 30, 2014 12:04PM

Which somehow makes Jesus Lord of the Flies.

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: August 30, 2014 12:06PM

Ah-ha! That's why they call him the Lord!

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Posted by: presleynfactsrock ( )
Date: August 30, 2014 02:51PM

Quite a group are the prophets who choose to spend their time bringing up this kind of sh*# instead of sharing some good jokes over a drink.

I mean how pleasant is it to think of people becoming toast in a Great and Terrible Fire that will burn the sinners (that includes everyone, baby) and the green frogs and brown bears alike.

The prophets electronic gadgets must have all been on the brink, and they were so bored.......

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Posted by: outsider ( )
Date: August 30, 2014 11:30PM

The more serious point I wanted to make is that TSCC wants to both have their cake and eat it too. They want a loving god and a hell.

Just tell us what is doctrine. JS channeled Jeezus and said all non-tithe payers are going to be burned at the 2nd coming.

True or False?

Does this include all those who never heard the gospel, or is this just us ex-Mormons and "less-active" as well as those who go but don't pay.

Are there going to be 12 million people* burned or 6.99 billion?

*estimated number of non-payers who are or were members.

The answer of course will be "we don't know but send the checks anyway."

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: August 31, 2014 02:21AM

Standard Christianity condemns most people who ever lived to burn in hell. Religion loves to draw lines in the sand. Rewards for us, punishment for you.

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Posted by: maz26uk ( )
Date: August 31, 2014 08:55AM

Outsider, you have just provided proof to any religion that believes in hell that their religion is a load of c**p and made up stories! I applaud you.....one of the best posts I've read on here for ages :)

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Posted by: outsider ( )
Date: August 31, 2014 10:36AM

Thank you.

I've buried an infant son. I held him in my arms as he took his final breaths. He was born with inoperable birth defects. His his brain wasn't fully developed. Somewhere around five months, the doctors had picked up something on the ultrasound, which they didn't like, and as the pregnancy progressed, the news got worse and worse.

Sometime before his birth, the medical team called us in and laid out the prognosis. It wasn't good. Until he was born, we wouldn't know if he would have 15 minutes, 15 days, or 15 months.

They asked what we wanted. If things didn't look good, should they do everything modern medical science can provide to prolong his life or let him go quietly?

It was an easy decision. If he were to die, let him die in the arms of those who loved him, rather than under the stark lights and sterile bassinet poked with needles and wrapped in monitors.

The labor was hard. Long. Terrible. They said that a natural delivery can sometime provide an extra push for underdeveloped lungs.

After 20 some hours of labor, my wife when into the delivery room and then underwent another 8 hours of hard pushing. His head was huge because of the fluids and my wife is petite. I've never seen anyone work so hard as what she did.

I was there, watching the monitors and helping encourage her to push at the right moment. The pressure would build, I'd keep her from pushing too soon, she would put everything ounce of energy she had. Then she would gasp for a breath and try again to get the tail end of the contraction. Time and time after time. For eight long hours.

Finally, it was obvious that she was losing strength. The pressure on the monitor wasn't reaching as high. She was losing. I almost got into a shouting match with the doctor for force a C-section. Just then, the head slipped enough they could get the forceps in far enough to help pull.

He was born. They put him on my wife's breast for a few minutes. I held him for a moment and then they rushed him off.

A bit later, they came back with the bad news. He was not for this world. They asked if we wanted to change our minds, but we knew what we wanted.

The doctor himself brought back our first child. A son who looked just like he, even with the long toes.

His little breaths were barely audible. His legs, through capable on providing quite the kick to his mother's bladder lacked the strength to move once outside his safe home.

We had him for three or four hours. We gave him a bath. Clipped a few strands of hair. Sang songs and told him stories. I told him of camping trips and Disney Lands. Of playing golf and hunting for Easter eggs. Of birthdays and bikes. How the June wind freezes on your face waterskiing on glacier-fed lakes at dawn, when the water is perfect.

We all held him. My mother had come over to Japan and my wife's sister had flown up from Taiwan. A tiny birthday party for a son who would have no more.

Then his tiny lungs gave out. Just like that, he was gone. There would be silence in our house. Little feet would never run down the halls, excited to see what Santa had brought. No more songs, no more stories. He was gone.

We were fortunate and were able to have two more wonderful children, now 5 and three.

Now, let's reread the scriptures:

From 3 Nephi:

6 And there was also a great and terrible tempest; and there was terrible thunder, insomuch that it did shake the whole earth as if it was about to divide asunder.

7 And there were exceedingly sharp lightnings, such as never had been known in all the land.

8 And the city of Zarahemla did take fire.

9 And the city of Moroni did sink into the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof were drowned.

10 And the earth was carried up upon the city of Moronihah, that in the place of the city there became a great mountain.

11 And there was a great and terrible destruction in the land southward.

12 But behold, there was a more great and terrible destruction in the land northward; for behold, the whole face of the land was changed, because of the tempest and the whirlwinds, and the thunderings and the lightnings, and the exceedingly great quaking of the whole earth;

13 And the highways were broken up, and the level roads were spoiled, and many smooth places became rough.

14 And many great and notable cities were sunk, and many were burned, and many were shaken till the buildings thereof had fallen to the earth, and the inhabitants thereof were slain, and the places were left desolate.

15 And there were some cities which remained; but the damage thereof was exceedingly great, and there were many in them who were slain.

16 And there were some who were carried away in the whirlwind; and whither they went no man knoweth, save they know that they were carried away.

17 And thus the face of the whole earth became deformed, because of the tempests, and the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the quaking of the earth.

18 And behold, the rocks were rent in twain; they were broken up upon the face of the whole earth, insomuch that they were found in broken fragments, and in seams and in cracks, upon all the face of the land.

19 And it came to pass that when the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the storm, and the tempest, and the quakings of the earth did cease—for behold, they did last for about the space of three hours; and it was said by some that the time was greater; nevertheless, all these great and terrible things were done in about the space of three hours—and then behold, there was darkness upon the face of the land.

20 And it came to pass that there was thick darkness upon all the face of the land, insomuch that the inhabitants thereof who had not fallen could feel the vapor of darkness;

21 And there could be no light, because of the darkness, neither candles, neither torches; neither could there be fire kindled with their fine and exceedingly dry wood, so that there could not be any light at all;

22 And there was not any light seen, neither fire, nor glimmer, neither the sun, nor the moon, nor the stars, for so great were the mists of darkness which were upon the face of the land.

23 And it came to pass that it did last for the space of three days that there was no light seen; and there was great mourning and howling and weeping among all the people continually; yea, great were the groanings of the people, because of the darkness and the great destruction which had come upon them.

24 And in one place they were heard to cry, saying: O that we had repented before this great and terrible day, and then would our brethren have been spared, and they would not have been burned in that great city Zarahemla.

25 And in another place they were heard to cry and mourn, saying: O that we had repented before this great and terrible day, and had not killed and stoned the prophets, and cast them out; then would our mothers and our fair daughters, and our children have been spared, and not have been buried up in that great city Moronihah. And thus were the howlings of the people great and terrible.

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Posted by: GQ Cannonball ( )
Date: August 31, 2014 10:32PM

Thank you Outsider for sharing such a deeply personal and painful chapter of your life with us here...this is very moving and contrasts so effectively the natural bond between a father and child to the absurd cruelty of the 'god' of the Book of Mormon. Thank you.

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Posted by: knotheadusc ( )
Date: September 01, 2014 06:20AM

My God, that was beautifully and eloquently written. Thank you for sharing it. I'm so sorry for your loss.

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Posted by: sassypants ( )
Date: September 01, 2014 06:58AM

Very moving outsider. A thanks from me as well, for sharing.

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Posted by: rhgc ( )
Date: August 31, 2014 09:07AM

Toss the Book of Revelations.

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Posted by: fluhist ( )
Date: September 01, 2014 05:34AM

Thankyou so much, outsider, for sharing such a touching story. I have been through something similar and know the feelings. As amatter of fact it is my little boy's bithday tomorrow, he would be in his 30s had he lived. And yes what a contrast in the feelings to the account 'loving' God who destroyed so much and so many. That is not my God and never will be.

My love to you and your beautiful family.

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