on TV during conference sessions, I thought to myself, some of those men are gay, especially when they were so mesmerized in their singing.

I've heard that all of the members of that choir have to be currently married (but I could be wrong).

Yet, some of those men just "ping" quite distinctly.

Many of them are indisputably gay.

Steve

Gay and married, currently?

When I was in the MTC at the large group meetings, I'd look around and tell myself that statistically speaking there had to be 200-300 gay guys in that room (3,000+). Then when the Great N Spacious was built, I'd look at the number of people, 20,000 and think that there had to be at least 500-1000 people that might be gay in that room.

But the choir? Good lord yes. I myself spotted a big one today. Botoxed & all!

I'm not sure how well that statistic holds up within the Morg. I would think that more often than not, gay people tend to leave the Morg when they realize it will never accept them. There are still gays in the Morg, but I would expect the percentage to be much lower than in the general population.

I agree with you now. But at the time I had heard that between 5 and 10% of the population was gay, so I was just going by what I knew at the time.

Now, when I see that large group, all I think is that there are a lot of hurting people.

About 15 years ago, many of the choir members were single--or at least they acted that way--like important traveling celebrities--and my single cousin got all excited because one of them asked her on a date. He seemed so gay, she didn't go out with him again. A male friend of mine, whom I grew up with and always thought was very gay, is in the MoTab. He worked in the "Evergreen" program, and said Evergreen was mostly male-bonding, by playing basketball. He also said they discovered that gay men actually hated their mother more than their father, as they had previously believed. I was so struck by his stupidity, that all I could say was, "Huh?"

Anyway, I'm not from Utah, and half of the boys at BYU seemed "gay-acting" to me. I've had a lot of male friends who were admittedly and openly gay. In comparison, the Motab-gay behavior in choir men is just another Mormon affectation that is popular right now, like the little-girl speaking voices in Mormon women.

If you go by stereotypes, then I am a gay man, because I meet a lot of gay stereotypes. I even use a lot of hand gestures, and have been accused of having gay body language, whatever that means, and I have set off a gay person's gaydar more then once.

There are two gay "stereotypes" I don't exhibit though. I am not sexually attracted to men, and I don't sleep with men. I like women. I like them a whole lot, even if they do keep friend zoning me.

That said, I have a feeling there are probably more then a couple closeted homosexuals in the choir, who are in loveless marriages with straight women. Funny, how Mormons talk about the sanctity of marriage, but they are the ones that make a mockery of it, by forcing gays to marry women.

My cousin is like you. Everyone was certain he was gay, but he's not. (And no, he's not in the closet. His family, his friends, and his job are all gay friendly, so no need for the closet.)

But, yes, some men and women in the choir are probably in denial or in the closet.

What type of fucked choir would demand its members be married? What the hell has that got to do with talent?

I'm not sure actually. I mean, when you're following the commandments of mormonism, as a male, you end up quite "de-masculinized". I bet I would've seemed gay to a lot of people back when I was a TBM. I'm sure a number of them will be gay though.

If any of you have time, search for the Danzig's story. They performed with the tabernacle orchestra. They are a straight, married couple who love music. They ended up getting forced out of the church when they showed some compassion towards gays. They indicated that there are quite a few homosexuals in the church music programs.

The Danzig's have been on John Dehlin's podcast, they have done some "I'm an ex-mormon" videos, and some other stuff.

I feel terrible for the closeted gays who participate in the church's music programs. They must be very conflicted inside. I wish they could find a better organization to show there musical talents.

jl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> some of those men are gay, especially when
> they were so mesmerized in their singing.

?

That should read:

Some of the men "looked" gay, especially when they were so mesmerized in their singing.

Maybe I'm dense but still not getting it.

Do gay men look differently than straight men when then sing intently?

Are gay men more likely to look intently when they sing?

I had been in Utah choirs almost my whole life, even sung professionally with the Utah Symphony Chorus, and I only met a few gay men. Instead, I knew more straight guys who wanted to go out with me and other women whether we were married or not.

The dad of a friend of mine was in the Mo Tab for years and had affairs with women in the choir. There are all types of people in choirs: gay, straight, straying, single, married, you name it. And why does being gay in a choir have to be such a negative thing anyway?

Nobody has said it is a negative thing.

It is just an observation.

I brought it up simply because if there are really gay men there and I've heard that those choir members are all married, then it must be difficult for the gay men in the choir. That is all.

Then again, I've also said in my original post, I could be wrong about "all Mo Tab choir members are married." That's just something I heard from a TBM Mo Tab fan.

Gees. Calm down.

My ex has friends who used to be in the choir. I'd have to defer to someone like MJ though to know more of the story.

Go to an lds ward on Sunday and look around. I always thought I was in a small minority. Not so. I could pick at least 5 men in the ward I live in who are probably gay.

My ex isn't what you'd call masculine--but he doesn't fit so many gay stereotypes--like how he dresses (I pick his clothes now). He wouldn't have ANYTHING nice if I hadn't made sure he got it. He buys old and used and DI is his favorite store.

Let's talk about putting on a roof or laying a wood floor or fixing cars until they just aren't worth fixing anymore. He can fix cars better than anyone I've met except my dad, who taught ag mechanics. My ex couldn't decorate if his life depended on it. I was just "not" admiring his mirror picture he has hanging in front of his bathtub that he bought at the DI. I can't help but chuckle every time I see it.

But I have NO DOUBT there are many gays in the choir--and in the audience.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2013 12:09PM by cl2.

I know of at least 3 people that are in the choir who are not married, so it is not a requirement. One is divorced and the other two have never been married (man and woman).

One of my FB friends from HS posted that he had just made the tabernacle choir. He was in the morning session on Saturday. I have known him since jr. high and I always thought he was gay but he is temple married now to a very nice female so maybe I was wrong. I did see him though on camera. He posted many GC selfies afterwards.

Tupperwhere Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I always thought he was gay but
> he is temple married now to a very nice female...

Means nothing. How old was he when he got married? I knew a lot of gay guys getting married and engaged in their 20s.

I try not to generalize, but choir singing is one that holds true - a lot of gay guys love to sing and there aren't many opportunities outside of churches. Lots of gay guys in church choirs or banging out notes on the keys - fo sho.

I find it very funny that the have all the men in the choir sing "You raise me up"

What are they thinking?

...there sure is a lot of over-generalizing and stereotyping going on here.

Yes, there is no doubt that every single one of those clean-cut, well-groomed, well-dressed Mormon guys in the Mo-Tab tenor section are gay. But only the ones in the tenor section. The guys with the low-range baritone and bass voices are all straight.

Sheesh.

My point exactly.

My brother's in the mo tab. He's not gay.

Gays in the Mormon choir?

Hell yea! I mean, it's not show tunes but it is show business. For the poor gay Mormons - they're tickled pink to have a chance to let a little of their inner-gay shine. Sure, they'd love to shed the gown and break into a Liza Minelli number but they'll take what they can get.

It's a sorry substitution, in my estimation, for some real self-expression. Wait, it's a stereotype that gay men like to sing and dance more than most? Broadway wouldn't exist if not.