Part of the significant challenge many Mormons have to do with their inability to let go of their beliefs in spite of all the evidence that is contradictory to their beliefs, is the unwillingness to let go of the belief of eternal families and eternal marriage. It would seem tragic to them that what was supposed to be destined to be an eternal marriage, is that the Catholics and all the rest of the world were right, in that marriage ends with death. This is one belief that Mormons believe sets them apart from the rest of the world, and a major part of their testimony that makes them feel superior and “right”.

This view and belief is however born out of ignorance on their own part, as this belief generally constitutes a lack of understanding of their own doctrine.

So, I would propose that when arguing against this belief system, or in an attempt to illustrate to a TBM how they are perhaps misunderstanding their own doctrine, and painting a rosier picture of the doctrine than is the case in the reality of the fundamental LDS doctrine, here are some clarifications.

Please correct me if I’m mistaken so I could perfect this list, or add to it as might be appropriate:

TBM myth #1: Mormon marriages are the only chance we would have to be together forever as a family and together with our spouses

Fact: Many other belief systems, including mainstream Christianity also believe that we will see, interact with and live with family members and loved ones after we die. This belief and hope of being together forever is not special to Mormonism. Outside of Mormonism, the bar is however much lower and offers much greater hope to qualify for this togetherness than is the case with Mormonism. Mormonism dictates absolute obedience and submission to Mormon commandments in order to qualify for the highest degree of the CK aka exaltation. Minor shortcomings, mild laziness, repeated sinning will keep even faithful members out of the CK and apart from their spouses. Catholics believe they can have a cup of coffee and still live with their loved ones in the afterlife forever (not in the institution of marriage mind you, but together nonetheless), as long as you’re generally a good person. Being good according to Mormonism, isn’t good enough.

TBM myth #2: Mormon couples believe that they will take their earthly soul mate to the Celestial Kingdom and live in peace and joy together forever.

Fact: This belief often overlooks, or ignores the doctrinal aspect that the man’s soul mate will often become wife #1 of many, many wives. The women will become work horses, spirit baby making machines with no decision making authority, absolute submission and an eternity of raising spirit children, no questions asked. Her husband’s love for her will be shared and dispersed equally amongst perhaps thousands of other women assigned to him for the purpose of making billions and billions of spirit children.

TBM myth #3: The current doctrine of eternal marriage, or the “new and everlasting covenant” is a fundamental Mormon doctrine.

Fact: The Book of Mormon which is said by the prophets to contains the “fullness of the gospel” makes no mention of eternal marriage. The New Testament in 3 of the 4 gospels clearly states that there is no marriage in heaven. The “new and everlasting covenant” was according to the words of the Lord in D&C 132, a doctrine of polygamy. There is *no canonized scriptural passage or commandment illustrating eternal marriage in its current form, that is, one man, one woman, married for time and all eternity other than D&C 132 in conjunction with Official Declaration 1. (*please correct me if I’m wrong on this one)

Please make mention of any corrections or additions. I would like to make this as accurate and comprehensive as possible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2013 02:13PM by Mormoney.

As long as the LDS Church accepts the D&C as their accepted scriptures (canonized), D&C 132 defines marriage as: The New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage which is plurality of wives.

This is doctrine, and an explanation why.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/132?lang=eng

This is how the LDS teach it in the D&C Student manual...
http://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual/sections-132-138/section-132-marriage-an-eternal-covenant?lang=eng


What many don't remember, or realize is that when they are married in the temple, they are marrying into plurality of wives. Sure, it's not practiced (not legal, was never legal) but it is a doctrine of Celestial Marriage.

It's one of their concrete doctrines that is part of the Plan of Salvation.

(this is presented for information only)

Why would anyone think they require a seal of approval for what is a historical fact ? My family will ALWAYS be my family regardless of anyone in Hell or on Earth . Nothing can ever change that condition . It stands as pure truth .

In a comment over at Babycenter LDS Families, I mentioned that ALL Christians believe their families will be together for eternity, that it isn't only Mormons. I was told I was wrong; I insisted I was right (giving details), and no one replied.

Regarding Myth #3: there is evidence that at least some of the participants in the old Eleusinian mysteries belioeved that said participation would qualify them for eternal union with their spouses.

But you are right in that the meaning of the "New and Everlasting Covenant" has been transformed into essentiuall the exact opposite of its original one. It was invented as a euphemism for all that polygamy. Now it has come to mean a wonderful, spiritual, completely blissful union between the spouses.

Many Mormon couples I know aren't very happy with each other in real life.

I wonder why they think there will be no strife in the a life hereafter. Will there by nothing to have differences of opinion about? How incredibly boring. Will the stronger willed of the pair suddenly start caving in all the time?

They don't know how to negotiate and compromise now. What will they supposedly magically learn after death that makes that better?

The whole concept of immortality makes my skin crawl even without extra spouses, billions of spirit babies, and grumpy relatives.

Are devout and well-read Mormon women aware they will share their husband with other women as sister wives who pump babies for eternity?

the ones I know, they are aware of this, but all believe the Lard will sort it out and make sure everyone will be happy.

Isn't it wonderful?

Some of them are, judging just by responses that RfM participants have received when posing this question to their TBMs. The usual responses are "We will understand everything in the next life" or "I accept this". The latter is bone chillingly cult-like, gives me the heebie-jeebies.

"Fact: Many other belief systems, including mainstream Christianity also believe that we will see, interact with and live with family members and loved ones after we die."

Sort of. Christians if they believe the Bible believe we will neither be male nor female but like the angels (no gender). That we will know as we are known, meaning we will recognize each other but not have mortal bodies. We will not be bound to our family. We may enjoy them but not be adjoined to them. We will all be one big family and love deeply all the others just as much along with our prior earthly family. Being sexless we won't need sex or that kind of intimacy but the intimacy we will have will be beyond what we can imagine.

That's all biblical as far as I know. Feel free to correct what I just said if not accurate.

P.S. I scared myself. It doesn't sound fun to die and it's 3 in the morning and dark out.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2013 06:12AM by suckafoo.

That assumes that Christians are bible literalists, and most are not. I would say the fact as written does represent Christian belief. Christians believe that they will be reuninted with their loved ones in the afterlife.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2013 09:23AM by summer.

Sorry --but we won't be sexless in heaven. When it speaks as being "like the angels" it just means we won't be married. The reason angels arent' married is they are all male --at least according to the designation in Greek. "angalos" is a masculine rendering of "messenger". In the singular or plural, "angel" is always masculine, never written in the feminine.

I've never heard of this gender neutral aspect, although I have heard that sex will not be something that's desired in the afterlife.

My focus here is to contrast mormon mythical beliefs against non-mormon mythical beliefs. Mormons think their mythical beliefs are superior to the other mythical beliefs. I'm trying to argue that their belief system is actually inferior, or at the very least, just as irrational as other belief systems.

TBM's who cling to the whole "eternal marriage" doctrine and have a difficult time letting go of this particular doctrine, my objective is to emphasize the stupidity of the whole thing and point out their own ignorance of their own doctrine.

Okay, I misinterpreted. Maybe there IS gender. They do refer to angels some as she and some as he. I assumed "no" because of what Jesus said about us not being married in heaven.

Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Mar 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
Luk 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:


"Then I looked up and saw two women flying toward us, gliding on the wind. They had wings like a stork, and they picked up the basket and flew into the sky." Zechariah 5:9

And if you believe sons of God refers to fallen angels:
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2013 04:38PM by suckafoo.

Now is it also true Mormons now are aware Joseph Smith practiced polygamy, but that it was from God ? Why then was it justified to order the Nauvoo Expositor printing press destroyed and building burned; since they njewspaper publishers were telling the truth about Joseph Smith following God's orders?

Your description of who goes to heaven according to catholic doctrine is incorrect. Various popes over time have espoused the opinion that only catholics who die in a state of grace (no unrepented mortal sins) will go to heaven. Currently it's generally not put quite so bluntly, but at the heart of it, that's the belief. There is some wiggle room for certain situations.

You would probably have a much better idea of the actual doctrinal aspect as put forth by the church. My catholic grandmother is holding out a lot of hope that she will be reunited with my grandfather after she dies. So in spite of whatever the established doctrine, I think many catholics and other christians always hold out hope and belief that they will go to heaven and be reunited with loved ones. They probably figure they'll have a chance to do the old death bed confession thing.

Regardless of what the 'dope' says, nearly everyone I know plans on seeing their loved ones, after death, in some sort of other dimension, somewhere in the cosmos.

BTW, when does this CK thing take place? Isn't it after the Res-erection?

My TBM fam always talks about a party goin on up there. I thought we had to wait for Jeeeezus to go down his check-list after he flies in on a chariot...

As Mary says to Rob, "I'm soooo confused!"

I think the CK thing happens after the millennium. The earth gets converted into a big crystal ball and becomes the CK. Telestialers and Terrestrialers get booted off to some other planet, maybe mars and venus or something.

Curious as to what happens when a) the sun explodes in 5 billion years and b) even if they can import a new sun, what happens when the universe collapses back in on itself in 50 billion years.

With standard Christianity, you end up in heaven or not. But the LDS three degrees of glory (and degrees within the degrees) creates more potential walls of separation.

Also, Mormonism has far more rules. That means far more ways to be disqualified for a degree of glory.

One's odds are better outside Mormonism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2013 10:49AM by Stray Mutt.

That's exactly my point as well.

Part of the whole 3 degrees thing really adds weight to the whole con as well, as it keeps people in check, obedient and paying tithing to make sure they don't get separated from their family.