"I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet" (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, pp. 408-09).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2013 10:38AM by sam.

Good question.

Only thing missing from that statement was "Oh, and did I mention what a humble fellow I am?"

"God should be thanking me, for letting Him restore my, I mean, his church."

It's quotes like these that make me hate that son of a bitch!!!

The answer would be a big fat NO.

IF there was a God, that would have been a good time to strike someone dead.

Mia, just out of curiosity, how long did JS live after that quote? Now that's what I call narcissism.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mia, just out of curiosity, how long did JS live
> after that quote? Now that's what I call
> narcissism.

Not Mia but here you go:-

Address of the Prophet—His Testimony Against the Dissenters at Nauvoo.
(Sunday, May 26, 1844)

Killed June 27, 1844

Obviously, God is slow to anger. Took over a month.

sam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I
> am the only man that has ever been able to keep a
> whole church together since the days of Adam. A
> large majority of the whole have stood by me.
> Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it.
> I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The
> followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the
> Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet"
> (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, pp.
> 408-09).


I'm not entirely certain what being "a true prophet" would
necessarily entail. Probably telling the truth, even in the
face of opposition. Probably standing up for justice and
fairness. Possibly predicting the outcome of current acts,
motivations, law-breaking, etc.

I don't know that a "prophet" would have much reason to
talk a lot about himself or herself. Why a prophet would
say much about a church, I'm not informed. Perhaps to
admonish the members, or its leaders, or some such thing.

In Smith's own day there were numerous schisms and many
defections. Even the great Heber C. Kimball admitted
that by the end of 1837, Smith had lost the support and
trust of just about everybody in Kirtland. That is why
he fled that place, escaping to Missouri.

Once he reached Missouri, Smith oversaw the dissolution
of the Church leadership in that place, and soon after
became involved in difficulties that caused abandonment
of his group by the Whitmers, the Cowderys, Phelps,
Marsh, Hyde, William Smith, John Corrill, and many others.

If that demonstrates "keeping together" a church far
better than Peter did, then I'd say that Smith was not
only a narcissistic liar, but a deluded monomaniac as well.

Strange that he did not then compare himself to Moses --
whom the Bible calls the meekest man on the earth. Perhaps
Holy Joe was not quite sure how to boast of a prophetic
meekness outstripping that of Moses himself... eh?

UD

Maybe:

1. A person who speaks by divine inspiration or as the interpreter through whom the will of a god is expressed.
2. A person gifted with profound moral insight and exceptional powers of expression.
3. A predictor; a soothsayer.

That quote, when I first read it (on the internet) put a knot in my gut. I got in my truck and drove to the library to find "History of the Church". I was sure it was a misquote, but it wasn't. It was the beginning of the end! In two weeks I was gone. (First it made me sick and now it's my favorite)

Yup, straight out of the history of the church, which, of course, is why it's really hard to find a copy now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2013 09:40AM by albertasaurus.

In the immortal words of my late TBM father, "The man was an idiot!"

This makes me wish more than ever that he had lived instead of being killed, so he could have watched his whole stupid lie crumble around him as all his followers figured him out.

That's the quote that started me thinking and approaching the Internet with an open mind. When he got to "nor Jesus ever did it," I was bowled over. That was NOT the Joseph Smith I knew. Holy sh*t.

He's got a point if it wasn't for him, we all wouldn't have wasted so much time and money and this board wouldn't exist.

The apologists over Fairmormon try to deflect this two ways: one is that it is taken out of context, that JS is using a foolish boasting hyperbole like Paul in 2 Corinthians to make a point; the other is that it is from a primary source in the church history--in other words, the old "It was the scribes fault" defense.

Interesting to note, of course, one of the defenses implies that JS said exactly what he said, and the other implies that someone wrote down what he said incorrectly....

It's obvious that JS was a sociopath and became more and more megalomaniacal toward the end. I can't help thinking that this was what led to his demise. I can't help but imagine how alarmed some of his detractors were.. "This guy is out of control. We have to do something."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2013 11:20AM by rationalguy.

The most disturbing part is how mormons try and justify his words.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Narcissism/Did_Joseph_Smith_'boast'_of_keeping_the_Church_intact

William,why are you bringing up the silly argument about others having a different point of view. It seems that EHB just thought that their argument was disturbing, not their right to have it.
Apologists like William love to try to brush off things like this with those kind of distractions and paint statements like this one by Joseph Smith as something cherry picked by critics. But the reason this kind of statement is so disturbing is that it fall right in line with so many other behaviors by Smith in the later years of his life. What is disturbing to many faithful members is when they see a pattern of narcissistic behavior such as declaring yourself ruler of the world, marching around in a flashy generals uniform, manipulating young girls and their families into polygamy with promises of eternal salvation, etc., etc., and then making statements like this, there is a pattern of behavior that causes many sincere people to have serious questions. I read the defense by FAIR and reading the quote in context, it still sounds just as boastful and arrogant. The benefit of the doubt doesn't hold up when some of us start to really asses the pattern of his behavior in those years.Just my point of view!

At least He was a Real Prophet that existed we know of............

Define "true prophet."

I doubt you've met any and I certainly haven't, so why assume a true prophet wouldn't say it?

Read the OP, Hes assuming there's a criteria for a true prophet. And I'm saying if there's, Joseph was as good as Jesus or Moses........

Hmm...I guess I didn't see it. Still don't.

But, if we do set what the criteria is for a true prophet, why can't we claim that a true prophet is arrogant?

It is all make believe anyways, no? :)

Good answer Wandering.

Hummm...

What happen to William?

Funny.....

What? There's never been any such thing as a prophet. They're all fakers who claim to be such.

+

Apparently Brigham Young inherited the "Keys to Humility" from brother Joseph -- read this:

"I shall have wives and children by the million, and glory, and riches and power and dominion, and kingdom after kingdom, and reign triumphantly."

Brigham Young, Sept. 9, 1860. Journal of discourses V.8, Pg 178-179

"nor Jesus ever did it."

So . . . he's saying he's better at this than Jesus was?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2013 05:00PM by liminal state.

actually, I'm GLAD brig & Joe said the things they did; keeping their thoughts inside would perpetuate the Fraud even more, Wouldn't it?