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Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
Does the story of Abraham nearly being sacrificed only come from the BoA, or did that happen in the Bible as well?
Just BoA - I'm only 98% sure.
Yes, but I think it is part of the apocrypha or jewish folk lore about Abraham.
Abraham being sacrificed or Abraham nearly sacrificing Isaac? If the latter, it's in the old testament (Genesis 22) and is an often cited story by Christian preachers (Christians are supposed to admire Abraham's faith because he was willing to kill his only son without even asking god for any justification or reason).
In the BoA - and in fascimile 1 the story is that Abraham's father - an evil priest tried to sacrifice Abraham when Abraham was a boy - adding extra drama to the whole Abraham & Isaac thing.
I see. Thanks, bc. :)
Minor correction: Abraham's father had turned to idolatry, but it was the priest of Elkenah (who was also "the priest of Pharaoh") who attempted to sacrifice Abraham, not his own father.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2013 12:08PM by facsimile3.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2013 12:08PM by facsimile3.
Right. I had forgotten that. Thanks.
Thanks everyone.
No, Abraham was not "sacrificed" although supposedly the boy children of the enslaved Jews were being killed so Mommy stuck him in the crocodile-infested river in a basket to save him and he was adopted by the Pharoah's daughter (who was apparently a spinster or infertile or had just lost her favorite puppy -- who knows?)
Wasn't that Moses?
Boy did I have an "oldtimers" moment. :D
That was Moses.
Another translation error. He got jumped in south Cairo. Some Hittite slashed him from mouth to ear. Robbed him of his shekels.
Abraham was good with God, well, at least better off than Job. But that poor bastard is another story. Isaac, however, really pissed the heavenly fraternal one off. Barbeque time, God told Abraham. Bring your son.
Abe had just got done basting the boy with Sweet Baby Ray's sauce when God announced He was kidding. Isaac was glad to have been spared, but do you think he ever slept through the night after that?
Abraham was good with God, well, at least better off than Job. But that poor bastard is another story. Isaac, however, really pissed the heavenly fraternal one off. Barbeque time, God told Abraham. Bring your son.
Abe had just got done basting the boy with Sweet Baby Ray's sauce when God announced He was kidding. Isaac was glad to have been spared, but do you think he ever slept through the night after that?
Hahhahahahaaa!! I like your version much better. I wouldn't have been so sleepy through all those "lessons" had you been the teacher!
Wrong spot, sorry.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2013 05:39PM by cecil0812.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2013 05:39PM by cecil0812.
My bishop FIL told us the Quran says something about someone (I think his father) attempting to sacrifice Abe too, as if it were proof of the BOA.
Of course it wouldn't be possible that both psychotic "prophets" got the idea from the same jewish folklore ...
Of course it wouldn't be possible that both psychotic "prophets" got the idea from the same jewish folklore ...
HA! You beat me to it. I was hoping that link was going to be to Mitchell & Webb. Love those guys.
Hah!
it is such a terrible story to share with children: I will kill you in order to obey god. And I will be blessed for it. No matter what you do or say, I am prepared to kill you if I think god wants me to do that......
Combine that with the flood, god killing everyone, and it makes you wonder if teaching religion is some form of child abuse....
Combine that with the flood, god killing everyone, and it makes you wonder if teaching religion is some form of child abuse....
I don't think it can be said to many times or loud enough. There is nothing unique about Mormon teachings. If you will listen to the Mormon gerontocracy they will consistently ask this question, do you think Joseph Smith could have made this all up? The answer is NO. As far as Abraham and his famous troubles with his father Terah/Azar look no farther than Islam, it is in the Quran.
In the Talmud it is told that Abraham was thrown into a furnace by Nimrod and his father but came out unscathed. (You'll notice the traditional theme of getting thrown in a furnace but not getting burned.) The Talmud also speaks of a time when Abraham lived with Noah, his tenth grandfather, and Shem, his ninth grandfather.
It seems to me that Joseph's depiction of Abraham is rather childish compared to Islam and Judaism.
In the Talmud it is told that Abraham was thrown into a furnace by Nimrod and his father but came out unscathed. (You'll notice the traditional theme of getting thrown in a furnace but not getting burned.) The Talmud also speaks of a time when Abraham lived with Noah, his tenth grandfather, and Shem, his ninth grandfather.
It seems to me that Joseph's depiction of Abraham is rather childish compared to Islam and Judaism.
This is a little off topic since it's about Abraham and Isaac (and not the BoA), but what I find absolutely fascinating about that story is the fact that it's very likely that the original version of Abraham and Isaac has Abraham actually sacrificing him to Yahweh.
If you check out the original writings, there were at least 3 contributors to the Abraham/Isaac story that scholars can find. It appears that the part about the angel of Yahweh coming down and stopping Abraham was a later addition, probably added because the new religion of Yahweh wanted to get away from the prior religions/pagan beliefs about human sacrifice.
Obviously, it's all made up anyway but it's interesting to note that the original story most likely had Isaac being sacrificed to Yahweh.
If you check out the original writings, there were at least 3 contributors to the Abraham/Isaac story that scholars can find. It appears that the part about the angel of Yahweh coming down and stopping Abraham was a later addition, probably added because the new religion of Yahweh wanted to get away from the prior religions/pagan beliefs about human sacrifice.
Obviously, it's all made up anyway but it's interesting to note that the original story most likely had Isaac being sacrificed to Yahweh.
The story of Abraham and Isaac does not need to be literal but may be seen as an indication - see the oration of Stephen in Acts - of both faith and as a precedent for Christ being sacrificed. One should also note that a sacrifice in place of Isaac was provided so that a sacrifice was, indeed, made on the altar made by Abraham. Also note that the one being sacrificed was required to carry the wood. The sacrifice of the animal provided by the Lord in Genesis is replaced in the NT with the Lord providing Christ as the sacrifice for our sins, the FINAL sacrifice. We also know how difficult it is for a parent to sacrifice his or her child. Don't think, as one would when young, that it is easier to sacrifice your child than yourself.
Yes, when one considers the Bible to be mythology instead of literal it makes a lot more sense.
This has been pretty well debunked and is obviously not what the Jews think about Abraham and Isaac.
I think this video and its following parts debunk this pretty well despite being a little long winded: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uunfIMXAp7s
I think this video and its following parts debunk this pretty well despite being a little long winded: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uunfIMXAp7s
Actually my question about all this is did he really practice polygamy in the Bible? I've been doing some serious research and Joseph Smith claims that Abraham practiced polygamy. Although sometimes he will use legitimate facts and twist them, I don't ever recall Abraham doing that and I suspect it to be a lie but I don't know for sure.
Genesis 16
1 Now Sarai Abram’s wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an aEgyptian, whose name was bHagar.
2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my amaid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.
3 And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.
4 ¶And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.
1 Now Sarai Abram’s wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an aEgyptian, whose name was bHagar.
2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my amaid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.
3 And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.
4 ¶And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.
Oh okay! I'm glad I asked. Thank you!
If fact Joseph even took the parallel further. His favorite place to look for wives was whatever teenage housemaid was living with them at the time. ;) If the wife won't do, bang the servant - all the best prophets are doing it.
The whole sacrafice thing tells me that it really is from the bronze age.
As Christopher Hitchens put it; any God requiring of me to sacrifice one of my children can go Fukc himself.
As Christopher Hitchens put it; any God requiring of me to sacrifice one of my children can go Fukc himself.