I think that's what Mr. Twede wanted. Don't you Richard? Linking his "discipline" to criticism of Romney is a lie, but the press ate it up. Although I probably agree with his overall perspective, I don't think truth is ever served by deceit.
His tactics are more about attention than they are about any valid concern over his church membership. But if the ends justify the means, well played Mr. Twede and very amusing. I hope you're enjoying yourself
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2012 11:25AM by SLDrone.
If the time frame is as you've suggested, then I believe the timing to be coincidence. The Church is guilty of a lot of things, but I don't believe this is one of them. Threatening church discipline over published views of a political candidate. That's beyond far fetched, but great headlines.
There are plenty of real issues to address. No need running off after every shinny new red herring like so many dogs lying in the brush.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2012 12:03PM by SLDrone.
The timing of Twede's criticism of the Romney-related articles and his disciplinary action is as "coincidental" as the disciplinary actions taken against the "September 6" intellectuals in 1993.
LDS Corp claimed that the September 6 actions were all "local matters" and coincidental, and that the main LDS offices had nothing to do with them. Yeah, right.
Now, they also claim that the main LDS offices have nothing to do with Twede's disciplinary action, and that it is a local matter. We know this is a lie, because LDS Corp sent the necessary information about Twede to the local officials.
There is a pattern of behavior here, and these are no coincidences.
I was also tempted to think that angle was a ploy to get more press, but you know, it's not like the Mormon Inquisition just stumbled onto MormonThink, suddenly, one particular day in September. The disciplinary action followed the Romney stuff, so it's a fair portrayal.
And what difference does it make what prompted the disciplinary action? It's creepy and medieval and WRONG.
You don't know what David Twede intended or how he feels about his membership, either. Clearly, he's had a lot of second thoughts.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2012 01:20PM by munchybotaz.
??? I have no dog in this fight, but let's not forget how desperate LDS leaders are right now....I wouldn't put it last them. They've had a long history of suppressing speech/revising history...it's not far fetched at all that this would be related to his recent comments re Romney. In fact, if I read correctly, didn't Mr. Twede himself say the samples of comments they took issue with did in fact include comments about Romney? Let's not be naive folks.
When we fail to discern truth from lie in the battle for truth, the entire war becomes that much more muddled and our credibility that much less credible.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2012 11:47AM by SLDrone.
SLDrone Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > When we fail to discern truth from lie in the > battle for truth, the entire war becomes that much > more muddled and our credibility that much less > credible.
I couldn't agree more. However:
Could you please explain how you know Mr. Twede is wrong in his assessment that the actions taken against him by LDSinc. are related to his writings about Romney? Also, could you explain how you know Mr. Twede's "tactics are more about attention than they are about any valid concern over his church membership." Upon what premise do you accuse Mr. Twede of self-aggrandizement?
The Mormon church is so dishonest it is amazing how they are bitching about the "Romney Tweede" connection...lol
That is the last of their worries. Their first priority in being honest is to get rid of FAIR and accept their tainted history, apologize for it and stop lying to the public.
What is so entertaining is FAIR in an attempt to protect the church from the apostate Tweede has actually cause serious harm to the LDS church and it will be recorded and reference for years to come!
Good job FAIR you are the apostates best secret weapon.
A few years ago I was in a meeting with a man I consider a friend. He also happens to be one of the 12. We were discussing doctrine, my doubts and his certainties. The conversation had been frank but friendly. At one point I mentioned Daniel Peterson and something he'd written for FARMS. For just a moment, just a flash there was a scowl, a glimpse or anger and a glimmer of disgust. In that half second and without a word being spoken I knew. DCP's days were numbered and FARMS was no longer considered welcome in the highest circles.
I think FARMS and FAIR for the Mormons are a lot like Donald Trump is to the GOP. They do more harm than good and the Church knows it. NOW, what to do, what to do?
Leah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Does it really matter if Twede was threatened > because of Romney or his healthy skepticism in > general? > >
to some of the above posters, apparently it does matter.
According to them, any healthy skepticism simply equals a person being an "obvious" attention whore.
About a month ago, David posted on his blog that he was going to church as a visitor, to try to smooth things over. He went to Gospel Doctrine class and pretended to be a new investigator.He flirted with a woman investigator, and disrupted the class by loudly asking the teacher inappropriately provocative questions . He bragged about it in a post on RFM.Both the RFM post and that portion of his blog have been deleted. David deliberatley set out to start a stink with the church close to election time. David is falsely using politics as a dodge for his outrageous behavior at church. Tell the whole story if you're man enough to accept responsibility for your actions, David.
We make our best guess after examining the evidence. We can't depend on TSCC to give us the truth - they have proven (and that's why we're here) that they are not truthful. We can't depend on Twede's version of truth, because he has an agenda. So what's left?
In my opinion: any so-called religion that resorts to spies and informants and excommunication of its members is a cult and not to be trusted.
It doesn't matter how or why David does what he's doing. The important thing is that it is happening to the church. And as we know they just got finished ex'ing the previous ME of MormonThink. The church told me I needed to repent for losing my testimony after reading the truth from their own sources. Then they told me I would lose my eternal family and earthly blessings unless I continued to pay my tithing, commit to my callings and sustain the Brethren. After that, all I had left for family relationships was my wife and kids.
I've been privy to a lot of the inside stuff, and David is one of the most guileless people I've met, not that he isn't aware of it and capable when necessary, given his background in "academic politics."
The LDS Church earned its black eye with this story...
The following comments assume that we share the view that Mormonism plays a role in the failure of Mitt Romney to secure wider acceptance from American voters. You might not share that view. You might think him being a boring, elitist, smug rich white guy with little charm and less sincerity would cost him the election regardless of religion. Tip o'the hat to that idea...but on to Twede:
We don't have to depend on Twede's version of the truth, we have been part of the story. He first posted here a heads up on what was coming down and then came the link to the first article in the Daily Beast. The article made the Romney connection, and Twede objected, remember?
Twede said his LDS inquisitioners never mentioned Romney and, in view of their just-completed excommunication of his predecessor, he felt it was not connected.
Later, after a good night's sleep, he revisited the issue and concluded the timing might be a factor after all.
As CAgirl suggests, and we have discussed here previously, we determine the church's motives, priorities, thoughts, finances indirectly because they are secretive and deceptive. I compare LDS church watching to astronomy. We can detect with scientific accuracy the presence of planets, stars, etc, based on their effect on known bodies. Similarly, we see the church's ACTIONS and then we speculate on the reasons. The church never gives a reason. They don't have to "because I said so" is acceptable to the indoctrinated mass of members who do not require explanations.
So if we analyze the timing, what do we see? A few weeks ago the church was talking about how wonderful this Mormon Moment was, bringing the church out of "obscurity" and bringing so much more traffic to their websites. Interesting choice of words since "obscurity" means "darkness."
Now we see them taking action against Mormons who are part of the Mormon moment. FAIR has been identified as the ones who fingered Twede, based on his description of what he was wearing (paisley?) and other things about his experience at church.
So it was FAIR who took the trouble to seek him out and why would that be now? The answer can be a "coincidence" but FAIR going after MormonThink after a couple of Romney articles and immediately after Romney plunged in the polls is the logical equivalent of seeing a planet distort the light of a star.
What else could it be? While they were winning, FAIR did not feel the need to point fingers. Now they need a scapegoat to explain their failure as America has apparently decided and headed for the refrigerator looking for a cold one.
They can do what they want. Apparently there is something in the content of Mormonthink they don't like. All I have ever found there is good thoughtful discussions and articles and such. Just information. And now apparently some discussion of the church influence on political leaders. And now the guy is being "examined".
"It's about a blog where he posted that he was in there (church) actively trying to subvert people's belief in the LDS church." (Stan Gordon, as quoted in your post, Anagrammy.)
I find it interesting that the church didn't just sit on Twede for a few months and quietly do this after the election. Especially since he resides in Florida which only helps facilitate the national attention.
I agree with SLDrone because I don't believe Twede really cares about his membership based on comments made here and in other forums. I believe his agenda is to promote MT similar to John Dhellins agenda to promote his site.
Either way he is polarizing. Members I know that have read about it have already labeled MT and Twede as anti Mormon while non Mormons have labeled the church as a crazy people filled religion with zero tolerance for questioning.
The church still comes out of this looking stupid.
+1. Unless we want to write off church leadership as "moronic", it is impossible (for me at least) to characterize the timing of the Tweed censure in any other way, but one of these two alternatives:
1. LDS leadership felt that the Romney Presidential "gloss" was being injured by the content of MT.
2. The content of MT so incensed the leadership that they either disregarded, or miscalculated, the impact of their actions on the Romney campaign and charged ahead.
The censure of David Tweed probably doesn't have a big impact on the Romney campaign - but it _certainly_ doesn't help him - and his campaign needs all the help it can get this close to a tight election.
The Daily Beast article already has more than 2,100 posts. At 10:30am Monday, 9/24 there are 219 people "listening" to the story. It has absolutely generated a significant amount of publicity. Unfortunately for the Mormon Church, the timing could hardly be worse.