I just assumed that he was, but one of the babycenter posters says otherwise. Does anybody have a source for this? I have no idea where to find Camilla's biography where it's supposed to be in. I thought there would be something online somewhere but can't find anything.

http://community.babycenter.com/post/a26522343/possible_real_reasons_for_the_templewedding_policy?cpg=1&csi=2304384370&pd=1

"During this time he courted Camilla Eyring, sister of the famous chemist Henry Eyring, and they married civilly on November 16, 1917 in Pima, Arizona. Seven months later, on June 7, 1918, the couple were sealed in a marriage ceremony in the Salt Lake Temple."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_W._Kimball

Too bad he was raised in such an anti-gay religion. He might not have been such a horrible human.

Even if SWK grew up in Manhattan, 1917 was not a friendly gay culture.

SF didn't become gay friendly until WWII, when outed gay sailors were kicked out and dropped off in SF. Rather than head back to Iowa in humiliation, many of them settled in this pretty city with nice weather and lots of other dishonorable discharges.

Wow, I had no idea about that. Thanks for the info!

The Mesa Arizona temple wasn't even finished until the end of 1927, 10 years after they were married. http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/mesa/

These were horse and buggy days. People didn't have access to temples outside Utah and the trip to Utah was a major ordeal. Kimball's emphasis was on making the sacrifice to get to the temple not precluding people from marrying first.

Faithful members in South America had to do the same thing until the 1990s when temples went up. People were married civilly and saved their money to make the trek to the nearest temple to be sealed sometimes many years later because of poverty.

True. Even if they were going straight there afterward they would often do a civil ceremony first. My grandpa and his first wife were married civilly by thier BP in 1906 and almost immedietly made the multi day journey to SLC to get sealed. Of course the civil ceremony was done because only a moron would trust a pair of teenagers to stay virgins on a long un supervised trainride across the southwest.

Well how on earth does he justify saying this then:

President Spencer W. Kimball told the following true story:
“A few years ago a young couple who lived in northern Utah came to Salt Lake City for their marriage. They did not want to bother with a temple marriage, or perhaps they did not feel worthy. At any rate, they had a civil marriage. After the marriage they got into their automobile and drove north to their home for a wedding reception. On their way home they had an accident, and when the wreckage was cleared, there was a dead man and a dead young woman. They had been married only an hour or two. Their marriage was ended. They thought they loved each other. They wanted to live together forever, but they did not live the commandments that would make that possible. So death came in and closed that career. They may have been good young people; I don’t know. But they will be angels in heaven if they are. They will not be gods and goddesses and priests and priestesses because they did not fulfill the commandments and do the things that were required at their hands.
“Sometimes we have people who say, ‘Oh, someday I will go to the temple. But I am not quite ready yet. And if I die, somebody can do the work for me in the temple.’ And that should be made very clear to all of us. The temples are for the living and for the dead only when the work could not have been done. Do you think that the Lord will be mocked and give to this young couple who ignored him, give them the blessings? The Lord said, ‘For all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.’ (D&C 132:7)” (in Conference Report, Japan Area Conference 1975, pp. 61–62)."

And here's a link to the story:

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=85578c8fd6c20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=d6371b08f338c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

Yeesh!

I remember that story. I remember hearing it repeated, and hearing variations of it as well (i.e. what if your newlywed husband is killed in a car accident?)

What is the business secret of success for utah's largest corporation? -holding families hostage in eternity!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LA_Eusla4o

Wow sounds like a snarky mean sort of god:

"Ha, ha, Gotcha! No gods and goddesses for you!"

... another one of those "how the *&*&^%^ did I ever believe all that crap?!?!?" moments.

shit
oh
shit
oh
wow
shit

I hate to resurrect an old thread, but earlier today this exact talk from SWK came to my mind and it infuriated me. This is such a heaping, stinking pile of bull sh*t. If what SWK is saying about this couple is true, then I guess my parents shouldn't have done temple work for my jackmo grandma and nevermo grandpa, who had PLENTY of opportunities to "accept the gospel" in this life and "rejected the commandments." If this isn't a blatant example of fear-mongering from TSCC, I don't know what is. I just wish more TBMs could connect the dots and see how disingenuous it was of SWK to say that.

Annon-er Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
> Do you think that the Lord will be mocked[?]...

Yeah, actually I do think that the Lord will be mocked. I'm mocked every single workday and I deal with it. And since I think that God (if God exists) is a highly evolved spiritual being, and way in advance of this lowly urban school teacher, my best guess is that he can more than handle being mocked. He can deal with it. And he can love, empathize, understand, and forgive.

Otherwise, what's it worth to be a god? Just to be another petty individual with power? Really?

Mormons are children of a lesser god. Because that's the god that they feel they deserve.

That's just pure evil....what a mean spirited stifling religion...soo glad I went inactive in 1971, and fell in love with and married a Catholic in 1973...

Ron Burr

Why don't you know, you're the prophet Spencer!

I don't think he's a hypocrite for having a different standard for people who have a temple right in front of them and his situation back in the days of Noah when they had to travel by caravan, probably alone as the whole family couldn't take weeks or spend the money to make such a trip, and it would be unchaste for an unmarried couple to be on such a journey alone together.

What's disturbing is how judgmental and unforgiving God is portrayed as being in this strange story. He says they might have been good people, he doesn't know, but he'll go on to judge them as forever unworthy. Even though he also says they might have avoided the temple because they did not feel worthy.

Maybe they couldn't afford tithing because they were supporting a widowed mother and 6 siblings. Maybe she had Tourette's and kept shouting, "God damn it, fuck you" uncontrollably and felt embarrassed about what would happen if she couldn't control herself in the temple. So were they supposed just lie and go anyway? Or not get married until they could get themselves worthy?

This is the dark side of Mormonism, why traditional Christians are justified in doubting that Mormons are Christian.

The idea that God would punish them by separating them forever for putting off the temple is cruel, not a just, loving God. Kimball had an idea of God that is very scary.

His oldest son left the church and spent his life no longer believing. I can see why.

I think it makes him a hypocrite! I could see if he got sealed the next day, the next week, the next month...but 7 months later!!!! What was the hold up? What if they had had a car accident during those 7 months????

Can't edit...if he couldn't make it to the temple for 7 whole months after the wedding, he should have put off the wedding until a time that he could make it to the temple in a timely fashion. Otherwise he might as well just come out and say that the sealing was not a priority for them.

Ol' Spence was probably like a lot of us. He just couldn't wait to get some. My ex and I ran to Vegas during finals at BYU, got married, stayed at the Cashba Hotel (yep, that's really the name), knocked off 49 pieces and then drove back to Provo. Year later, we got sealed in the birthday cake.

Just sayin'...

Ron

Camilla was pregnant by the time they went to SLC to be sealed. Per her biography, she was quite concerned about what people would think. Did she HAVE to get married? Huh?? You are preggers and not married, but now getting married in the temple? Strange way of thinking.