I grew up with several siblings.

I think that my father earned a decent living.

My parents are now in their mid 70s and are talking to me about
their financial situation.

During a discussion about it my father estimated that he paid about 10000-15000 per year in tithing, fast offering, and other gifts to the church from the time he was about 30 to the time he retired at 70.

I don't remember them being big spenders. Modest home, modest cars, very few trips and lots of casseroles.


At their current ages - they have very little to show for 43 years of work.

Very little.

That tithing money if invested...at all - would have given them a substantial nest egg. He would have been able to retire earlier. They would now be traveling instead of making ends meet. OR just had the money to blow if they wanted to.

Frustrating and makes me wonder how many other mormons are doing the same thing now - putting money into tithing instead of retirement - children education - real charity.

The kicker....

My Father tells me that he is paying tithing on social security check and the money from their ira they draw each month.....

OK, I have to re-put-on my Mormon hat here for a moment...

OK, done, I ready....

IF your parents paid on the "gross" they do not need to pay on social security as they would have already paid on it. Also, IF they paid (tithing) before accounting for a 401k or IRA deduction they at least don't have to pay on the "principal". Tell them that.

Yea, in a perfect world they wouldn't waste any more money, but maybe that helps them a little...

that tithing is on increase only. he already paid tithing on those funds.

he understands that and will be paying it anyway.

for him it is all about his belief that, this life is just a test, just a very short period compared to eternity.

he wants to show god that he has given everything he has beyond what he needs to live.

i have a feeling that was what he was doing all along.

Mormon logic = If you pay more you get more...

In reality + if you pay more they get more


no way could you explain increase to a tbm..

My spouse pays easily 20% - say's you get more blessings.


uuuuhhhhhggg

"That tithing money if invested...at all - would have given them a substantial nest egg."

Hindsight is 20/20. Chances are they would not have invested that money. People tend to spend whatever money they make. Sure they might try to save some, but it probably would not be 10% of what they were making.

If a retiree only has Social Security on the average s/he will be living at the poverty level. A retiree needs either a good private pension (I have two of those) or IRA funds to enjoy a comfortable living.

The tragedy of paying tithing is that LDSinc. is a scam. The product they sell is "eternal life" and there is no evidence whatsoever that eternal life is real. It is a man-made wishful thinking feel-good scam that churches use to lighten people's wallets.

Yes, it takes financial discipline to pay the maximum allowable amount into your IRA, and to invest wisely. But any kind of savings is a lot better than dumping money down the tithing rathole.

The best description of tithing -- a fool and his money are soon separated.

My parents are approaching retirement with almost nothing. They haven't even paid off their mortgage. They will have to downsize to a 2 bedroom house with the equity they do own in their current property. They will have an income of around £12k per year pension. They will pay around £2k of that in more tithing.

I will be responsible for looking after them financially in old age, because all my siblings are TBM and also waste their money on tithing and having too many children they can't afford. Yes, the apostate will be the only one able to care for his elderly parents. I expect that subtlety will be lost on everybody concerned.

My parents disowned me. It's working out well for me. I don't know how much $ they have or not, and I don't care.

Their favorite TBM children can take care of them.
If not, maybe they can get their church that they've given hundred of thousands of dollars to, all their free time, their retirement years, and all that they have......maybe they will step in and take care of them. No? Well, gee that doesn't seem right.

Hi, I'm a lurker here and a nevermo, but have an idea that might help. You can support someone without giving them money directly - for example, pay his mortgage or bills. Then he can't give your money directly to the church. It's the same approach I use to help a homeless person, or a family member or friend in dire financial straits. I won't just give them money that could potentially be misused, but I will buy them things they need or arrange to pay for something. You can't control how your parents spend their own money, but you can control how you support them.

Ayesha has the right idea.

If you want to keep a roof over your parents' head and food on their table, insist that only your name be on the deed to their house and make the mortgage payments on the property. This will also prevent them leaving the property to a more 'worthy' sibling or to the church.

As for food and clothing, by pre-paid gift cards to the stores where they buy these items.

Don't be a patsy. I've seen it where one child supports the parents, and then the parents leave all the assets to the other child because they think that kid 'needs' it more or is just more 'worthy'.

Fortunately/Unfortunately there is no Mortgage.

My grandparents just gave the house to them free and clear.

The only mortgage is their self-imposed "I must pay tithing on this gift"

...and you're absolutely right, I know my parents will end up leaving what little they have to my sisters both out of need & TBM-ness.

But you raise good points, thank you.

Justrob, not having to pay a mortgage leaves a *lot* of money available for savings. Your parents are in a very fortunate position. Many people would love to own their homes free and clear and still have many working years ahead of them.

That's why the church exists
It's a corporate racket, in the literal sense of the word.
They make threats and promises based on bogus premises, and collect a fee for their bogus services.
When I was TBM I never minded tithing.
I saw people who "struggled" with tithing as just being of little faith. I thought it was petty to complain about tithing.
The church tells you you're only paying what you owe. It wasn't even my money to covet, so I didn't even consider it a loss.
What a deal for the church.
They sell bogus products in exchange for an obligation to make 10% payments for life. They convince you it's not even YOUR own money, and you just hand it over. No wonder they invest so much into indoctrination. It PAYS.
I know, I know, an apologist is going to say "but it's a lay church". Bullsh1t. There is a corporate elite that is "modestly" paid running the church. And, there is an entire LDS church economy of schools, construction contracts, and corporate offices. People make a living off the mormon church.
But part of the ease of paying tithing was that it seemed small.
It was only 10%.
Well that's the same delusion a teenager has who thinks 10% interest means that at the end of a year you've only paid 10% extra. As he/she signs up for his/her first credit card he thinks cool, not bad. Then realizes when it's too late that he didn't understand interest and the "10%" when compounded is allot more than that over a year. The true size of interest isn't intuitive until you've had the right math, economics, or you've experienced paying it off!
Likewise, paying tithing represents LOST interest EARNING power much greater than just the 10% principle. It gets exponentially worse as you go. By the end of life a mormon may have been impoverished by tithing.
When I was TBM I wouldn't have admitted the full burden it was. I didn't look at the loss because, after all, it wasn't my money anyway so I wouldn't have applied any accounting formulas to it. I just gave it away without any grudge, no expectation of a reward, I just wanted God to have the money He needed to bring souls unto Christ (a travesty in it's own rite, and the #1 reason why tithing is wrong to me...it goes to a wrongful cause).
But it was a burden.
After fixed expenses, 10% tithing was about 30% of my discretionary income. It was our 2nd biggest cost after rent...more than car expenses. I had to work a second job while I was in college, so I was working 1.5 x full time while a full-time student. It dented my grades. We had to raise small children in apartments years longer than our peers.
I notice the church will NEVER say anything to prompt anyone to REDUCE their reckoning of tithing. They have this blanket "it's between you and the Lord", but the Lord say's "10% of your increase". Well people argue all the time what that means, like I had a roommate paying tithing on his student loans...which means when he pays back that debt it will have been tithed TWICE! With interest! That could be 30%. But he was immovable. The church wouldn't ever say, hey, you're paying too much...They're too shrewd. They let you interpret "10% increase" on your own, KNOWING many will think it's better to pay too much than too little because God will not be mocked. They're afraid of "will a man rob god? wherein have we robbed thee...in tithes and offerings".
Nevermind the church takes inheritances from senile old widows...ironically a pharisean practice.
And since the church looks at tithing as an obligation like taxes even though they call it a "donation" (a misnomer), they should therefore pay rebates if an error is made...even the IRS does that. But of course they don't.
No transparency, false threats and promises for paying. A corporate racket.

This is what I want my TBM children to learn.

The FUTURE VALUE OF MONEY!


Take your fathers estimate of what he paid to the church every year and plug it into a Future Value calculator at a very modest 5% interest.

You will cry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2012 06:14PM by AmIDarkNow?.

you know, I might have responded to your very valid concerns, but I'd be so pissed off before I was done ..........that I could barely stand it, so I just cant go there today.

This is one of the topics that pushes a red button that ignites anger towards the lds church/scam.

I don't care if the person paid with a smile and it's not complaining. As a son/daughter of that person you have all right to be angry that your parents have been departed of so much money over the years and continue to contribute from the social money. They have also been robbed of a comfortable retirement. And even if they had not invested their money for retirment, they were robbed or at the very least manipulated into giving up their $$$.

At least the government took taxes during the years and gives a small amount back to the seniors. The church, on the other hand, took all it could take, including free labour, and what does it offer to its senior members? Nothing, instead it keeps on taking money and even more time (senior missions) until the day they die.