I went to the Solomn High Mass which was in Latin. I really wanted to experience it from an adult perspective. I was baptized Catholic as a baby and then we converted to LDS when I was nine. All I remember was my first holy communion and being drug out of church by our hair for being so load.

My mom used to say horrible things about that church so growing up I had not only the church (LDS) telling me that all other churches were wrong and making reference to the Catholic Church being the church of the devil, but my mom also gave me her two cents.

I thought it was an incredibly beautiful experience. There were not a lot of families there, but the ones who were even had their children singing in Latin. All the women and girls had veils over their hair. I didn't understand a word of it. Well....I did get to hear the announcements in English, but that was about it. It was very long and their was a lot of up and down and kneeling.

I think it would be good to go back and experience it in English so I can understand their teachings a little more. I am a bit concerned about their adoration of Mary. Does anyone know why they pray to Mary? And from what I could gather, they think the wine becomes his blood literally or is it supposed to represent the blood of Jesus?

I honestly do not think I would want to become a Catholic, but I am very interested in all religions from an educational standpoint.

If you choose to attend a Catholic mass and find it interesting then by all means do so. I have attended an occasional mass to support family members and I was very thankful when it was over and I could leave.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2012 12:11PM by saviorself.

I was Catholic until around 19-20. They truly believe the bread and water become the body and blood of christ through transubstantiation. Somehow it still just tastes like bread and water though. The adoration of Mary was a huge turn off for me. The rosary is about a 45 minute prayer of nothing but VAIN REPETITION mainly to Mary. There is no deviation to the words, so you can't put a personal spin on it or anything. I can see how the Mass can be interesting, there's a lot of tradition with a few updates to modernize it in the last few decades. With the exception of the Homily and Sacrament though, its basically singing, prayer(scripted), and reading scripture with a lot of symbolism and show thrown in to take up all the time. I enjoy learning about other religions for the same reasons as you, have fun.

The phrase "vain repetition" is an interesting one.

The ancient pagans put great stock in saying elaborate prayers, and often held to magic formulas wherein invoking their deity's name a certain number of times (or speaking its many names in a particular order) would guarantee success.

For example, baptism or the sacrament prayer, the temple, etc.

Mary was elevated as a political decision when Greeks worshipping Diana had to be thrown a bone so the Roman empire could be consolidated as Christian. Jesus certainly did nothing to promote it since he told his followers he didn't even have a mother, brother, sister, when they were alive and that any believer was his mother, brother, sister.

As in so many things, he *would be horrified* to see what has happened to his idea of a temple within and personal spirituality without subjugation under unjust and horrific meaningless rules.

Anagrammy

>>Mary was elevated as a political decision when Greeks worshipping Diana had to be thrown a bone so the Roman empire could be consolidated as Christian. Jesus certainly did nothing to promote it since he told his followers he didn't even have a mother, brother, sister, when they were alive and that any believer was his mother, brother, sister.

Yes, this is correct. In fact, many traditions in the Catholic Church were attained by appropriating local Pagan traditions. One of the simplest examples being that many Saints were originally either local gods/goddesses or heroes.

That was a really old-school Catholic service (Latin mass and women having covered heads.) I haven't seen that since I was a child.

I agree that there is a lot of stand up/sit down/kneeling. I don't think I could take all that kneeling nowadays.

Catholics "venerate" Mary, they don't worship her. There is a lot of room in Catholocism for praying to whomever you feel the highest degree of comfort. That could be God, Jesus, Mary, a saint or two, or (most likely) all of the above at different times.

Catholics do believe that that communion is transformed literally into the body and blood of Christ.

almost like electricity service.

For example, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that prayers not properly directed to Jehovah go to Satan instead.

Mormons were warned never to pray to Jesus, rather to Heavenly Father in Jesus' name. This was what was underlying Mormon Doctrine when Bruce McConkie arrived fuming at BYU back in the 80's and crushed competitor George Pace who was encouraging students to (gasp) develop a "personal relationship" with Jesus Christ.

Students caught privately associating with Jesus Christ--or even seeking information about same--would later be considered violating the honor code.....etc

Why? Yup. Those prayers to to Satan, the God of This World (per the temple).

Anagrammy

True. Veneration does not equal worship. Neither does kneeling in front of a statue and praying the rosary while doing so. And I say that seriously. In Catholicism prayer doesn't necessarily ALWAYS equal worship. Prayer is actually just a form of communication that can be directed at either Jesus, God the Father, the Holy Spirit, Mary, any of the Saints and/or any desceased loved one. My family often sends up prayers to long departed loved ones for guidance or intercession.

Sure there's SOME prayers that are used for worship, but those are pretty much restricted to the Nicine Creed or the Act of Faith. Catholics mainly worship through the Sacrament of the Eucharist and the celebration of the Mass.

The kneeling and constant repetition of prayers (during the Rosery or the various types of Novenas) are mostly to assist in focusing on the ultimate message or request.

The whole wine to blood and bread to body thing? That's meant to be literal via transubstantiation. And don't get me started on the whole assumption of body and soul into heaven thing. I will never be able to explain that one.

neverevermomo Wrote:
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> In Catholicism prayer doesn't necessarily ALWAYS equal worship. Prayer is actually just a form of communication that can be directed at either Jesus, God the Father, the Holy Spirit, Mary, any of the Saints and/or any desceased loved one.

Yes, that's how I see it as well. I've retained some Catholic customs. I might pray on behalf of deceased loved ones, or talk to them directly. On some nights I'll run through my family tree on both sides. I remember hearing my mom pray when she was lying in bed next door to me with the lights out. It was an incredibly sweet experience.

In Catholocism, prayer is/can be conversation. In that sense, the approach to spirituality is a deeply personal one. You customize it to what is meaningful for you.

I went once in the town of Trier, Germany.

Couldn't understand the service but it was a kick to attend a service in a church building that had been operating since about the year 250 or 300 AD.

So how are those child rapists working out for you ?

Yea....my mom went to Catholic school as a girl as was beat by the nuns. As a young married couple my mom went to her priest to have some marriage counseling, he hypnotized her twice and raped her during those sessions. That is when she joined LDS, Inc.

I can very much see where you can almost put yourself into a meditative state while attending mass. I read a book recently about a man who wanted to live like Jesus for a year. He studied with Rabi's, Catholic Priests, and his own Evangelical religion. He came back with a greater appreciation for all religions and it helped him to lossen up a bit with his own dogmatic beliefs. Ultimately he really could not live like Jesus, because he didn't give up all that he had and he didn't give away all his clothes, etc. He did live Kosher and he did become a compassionate man. He is dying of ALS. He might already be gone by now. Very good book. He also prayed for a couple of hours a day. He did a Catholic rosary, an Orthodox prayer with beads, a Jewish prayer and I think one more. When he was done he said he would still occassionaly continue with those prayers every once in a while because it really helped him focus on praying and not wandering off. It was a good way of focusing.

Ooops...wrong spot. :)

Transubstantiation is the bread and wine into the body and blood. It is meant to be literal.

Catholics do not pray TO Mary or any of the other Saints. They are intermediaries. My personal feelings were more like they were meant to be a focal point.

I am an ex-Catholic. I still enjoy going to Mass from time to time. I've always wanted to attend a Latin Mass, but there are none around here.

I still sometimes praise the Rosary. The repetition of the prayers are comforting to me. I always felt that the Stations of the Cross took me out of the rhythm of the prayers, but many people I know prefer it that way. I know many people who use the Rosary, but instead substitute "Our Father" or another prayer of their choice.

The rosary is actually supposed to be a contemplative tool. While going through the "vain repetitions", you are supposed to be contemplating various "mysteries" of the Catholic faith. there are three (later four) sets of mysteries, the joyful, the sorrowful, the glorious, and the luminous. The prayers are merely a "mantra" to help you focus.

best floor-show in town on that date at that hour, if you can't get to a performance of The Nutcracker or the Radio City Rockettes.

Other than that, nothing of interest in that thug-run extortion racket.

I occasionally attend Mass to support the organist boyfriend, but all the standing up and sitting down business can get tiresome.

On the bright side, the paintings, murals, shiny objects, relics, stained-glass windows, and fancy costumes make the time pass relatively quickly.

I've been to high latin mass and I liked it too. I think its the not understanding anything that is key:) Then its just pageantry and music and rather pleasant sounds. I always liked the up and down, it keeps you awake and its sort of bonding, like a sports event. I always liked the handshaking and well-wishing too. I'll take a mass in any language I can't understand over a hellish tedious 3 hour mo-block any day.

I grew up RLDS, not LDS, but they had a similar emphasis on untrained, lay ministry and on just letting the words come to you when you pray. They were very critical of other churches, especially the Catholic church, for their use of professional clergy and for repeating the same words over and over. (This has changed over the past couple of decades, and they are over the "one true church" thing and are really accepting of other churches.)

But when I started attending Catholic mass with my fiance (now husband), I found that I really enjoyed that type of service a lot more. After years of hearing sermons and scripture readings from the mouths of barely-literate farmers, it was nice to hear from someone who had some education and knew how to present their ideas in a coherent fashion. I also enjoyed the old, beautiful building and the lovely artwork. Maybe that makes me shallow, but for me it did make the whole experience more enjoyable than being in some crappy ugly building. The musicians were also really good, and I enjoyed the music so much more than I had in my family's church.

As another poster has already mentioned, the repetition can be comforting. I am the type of person who thrives on structure and routine. For me it has been a good fit.

Something else I like about it is the anonymity and the freedom to just be a regular member. As a kid, I always hated the pressure. People always felt like they could give me little jobs to do around church because my dad was branch president and they knew I wouldn't say no.

I had always felt an all-or-nothing vibe in the RLDS church, while in the Catholic church I feel like it's easier to believe some things but not others.

Thank you everyone for the insightful comments.

Repetition to me is just a simple way of getting people to meditate.
It quiets the mind and is found very soothing by many.
Many people don't concentrate though and their mind just flits around, bored. lol

My mom would take me to midnight mass at the catholic church, but always let me know I was not wanted there. She had been excommunicated and I am her bastard child. Weak mother, she was.

I enjoyed the Mass, none the less. I even learned basic Latin at one point but couldn't practice it much ... lol

One of my best acid trips included watching the Polish Pope celebrate Christmas midnight mass.

The wine is to represent the blood of Jesus and the bread, HIS body.Glad you went to experience the service as an adult. Now go to one in English and then to a Protestant service to see similarities and differences. Afterall most Americans are Catholic or Protestant.If you are American I think it is good to know about the dominant religions before criticizing something you don't know anything about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2012 03:40PM by honestone.

Mormons don't understand that atmosphere, and having beautiful surroundings has a huge effect on people.

They could learn a few things on this topic from the catholics.

The Mormon church is dreary, and depressing. There isn't one single thing in the building that's visually pleasing. There is nothing in the architecture or decor that hints at it being a spiritual place.

I always hated going into the building and spending time there. It leaves you feeling dead and uninspired. There's nothing there that makes you want to be there, or stay there. Hard cold surfaces, ugly drab color palates. Devoid of art, nature, or anything that could be called beautiful, inspiring, or interesting. Ugly, ugly, ugly.

The Mormon chapel interior is like IKEA overstock. A collection of Danes and Swedes march in, men in ill fitting suits, women in nylon stockings and pumps with frumpy dresses.

The overall feel is that of a sparse Twilight Zone episode: The Conformers. Paper cups are used as shotglasses for tapwater. Wonderbread is shredded and delicately consumed.

Throughout the meeting, there is a droning from "the stand," as males compete for the title of most boring.

The only entertainment is the shuffling of one's Sundy School shoes on the carpet to build up a static charge. This charge is best released on the earlobe of the snobby son of a fat and psychopathic matriarch in a mumu.

I used to think that if I wasn't Mormon anymore, I'd go to the Catholic Church since I was baptized there as a baby.

After I went to an Uncle's memorial service there, I realized that it was just never gonna happen.

There was a lady there saying Hail Marys over and over and over and over and over again. My Dad and I were ready to stand up and go, "Shut up!!!! Stop that!"

Nope. Not for me. I keep saying that there's just nowhere else for me to go. LOL

I am not and never have been Catholic but I dated a Catholic girl in high school who loved the Latin mass and I went to mass once and, because I had had three years of Latin, I could understand it. If I had a car at college we might even have married each other.

The car was not something the girl required, just that it would have made dating possible due to the location.

I love the Latin mass. Of course I taught Latin so that is probably a factor. You should try an English mass too.

Everyone keeps saying how the LDS prayer AKA blessing is spoken from the heart, and not constant repetition like a catholic prayer but have any of you ever really payed attention when someone is giving a blessing? I'll tell you this, every one I've ever heard has been exactly the same...

"Our dear kind heavenly father, we are so very grateful that we could be here together today as a family. We ask that you bless us and keep us safe as we travel today (or some variation of this) we ask that you bless this food so that is might nourish and streathen our bodies. We say these things in the name jesus christ amen"

Of course this is just the meal blessing which is the same one I have heard EVERY TIME I've gone to dinner at my MIL's house...no matter who does it. And it sounds the same when someone is doing it at church, or a graduation commencement (sp?) or anything else in Utah that they pray over!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2012 07:55PM by dominikki.

That blessing of the food is identical to many Protestants. I hear it all the time as well and I am Methodist.

I've heard those same phrases over and over as well. I guess when you're trying to just let the words come to you, the ones that pop into your head are the ones you've heard and said a million times.

I love visiting other churches. My father was kicked out of the Catholic church when he got divorced and married my mom. He searched for a church home his entire life until he married his third wife a Mormon. We went to every church in our small town over the years. Some of my best memories of my dad are from all those churches. I wonder if the Catholic church hadn't kicked him out if he would have stayed a Catholic his whole life and never turned to Mormonism???

(What, this hasnt been closed yet?)

Ive been thinking about visiting other churches to experiance different religions. Just right now, its hard to take and theists seriously, especially adults. Honestly try not to discriminate, but its hard, wondering how can these adults believe in a god? I know alot of people believe is God/gods, but at the same time I wonder how logical/rational/free thinking they are...