The first thread filled up rather quickly (especially when a poster began an earnest but rather futile attempt to defend his TBM family as not being as "dumb" as my grandfather was. Turns out his family was but, as the poster eventually and essentially acknowledged, just not as openly or as famously or as family-name "ruining"-wise as ETB turned out to be).

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1343660

Carry on, folks--that is, if you'd like to still talk about the original point of the initial thread.
_____


Editor's Preface: I spoke recently and at length with a very credible, Mormon-connected source with a long history of involvement in the LDS education system. Both inside and outside Mormon circles, this person enjoys a reputation for personal impeccability, integrity, honesty, accuracy and credibility. I have personally known this individual for nearly 40 years and can, along with many others who have known and worked with this individual, vouch for this person's reliability. By way of mutual agreement, the source’s identity is being protected. The source has reviewed the following post in its entirety, provided editorial input and agreed to its dissemination through posting it here on the Recovery from Mormonism website.

In other words, it's legit.
_____


The events described below involved a supposedly magically-engineered “Black Box” (on the order, in common parlance, of a “Doodlebug”). The device was an alleged money-making invention that was promoted by its investor-seeking LDS schemers to Mormon Church leader/my grandfather Ezra Taft Benson, other prominent LDS figures and Mormons of material means in the mid- to late-1960s. For example, several individuals in the Oakland-Berkeley, CA area—some of whom were described as being “very wealthy”—invested in this supposed marvelous work and a wonder. This list included business people, lawyers and a surgeon. Mormon apostle Ezra Taft Benson took the bait—and ended up taking a heavy loss.

The word in certain select Mormon circles was that someone had invented a Black Box/Doodlebug that could lead its users to significant sources of material wealth. It was said, for example, that if one “put oil in the front of the device, it would go find oil;” or “if one put gold in the front of it, it would go find gold.” It was described to potential investors as “a wonderful device.”

In the late 1960s or early 1970s, the source talked with Brigham Young University professor of religion and philosophy, Truman Madsen. The subject of the Black Box episode came up. Madsen told how he had been approached as a potential investor, and that the men told him about the device and how it was destined to produce great wealth for its inventor(s)/investors. They had fasted and prayed to be guided to investors who would not be corrupted by this great wealth but, rather, would use it to build up the Kingdom (LDS Church). Madsen’s comment was that “they made you feel like your calling and election was made sure,” etc., but Madsen did not invest. Madsen said that he was told by the Black Box promoters that “they [the promoters] couldn’t patent the Black Box because the government was so corrupt that somebody might steal the patent.”

Others who were said to be familiar with the alleged operational capabilities of the Black Box described how the gadget was explained to targeted potential investors in terms of how one would drill for an oil well--with important caveats to “cover their butts.” The Black Box, it was claimed, was “completely reliable, but oil-drilling equipment is not perfect.” While “the device was very precise , . . . [I]f the drill was thrown slightly off its intended course, it might miss the oil pocket or reserve, resulting in a dry hole.” Further efforts at self-protection for the Black Box’s pitchmen included the qualification that investment was raised “for one drilling project at a time;” meaning that “if they missed on the one you invested in, you just lost your money; you had no claim on any future successes unless you had invested in those projects also.”

Two individuals behind the Black Box scheme (Glenn L. Pearson and J. Dal Peterson) were eventually--and successfully--sued for fraud, with the court rendering judgment in late 1971. Pearson was a BYU religion professor described as “a very close friend of Ezra Taft Benson.” The plaintiff in the lawsuit was an individual who had lost $33,000.00. (A copy of the case’s court documents is in possession of the source. A BYU student who tracked down those documents described them as being “illuminating”). The court ordered the defendants to repay the $33,000.00.

Pearson left his teaching position at BYU and reportedly went into “mineral investing.” After a few years and the court-ordered repayment had been made, Pearson reportedly approached Ezra Taft Benson (who had lost two shares, or $66,000.00, in the Black Box scheme), asking Benson “to help him regain his position of teaching religion for the Church;” i.e., to help him “get his job back.”

On 19 December 1975, the source was informed by a prominent BYU faculty member that that person (the prominent BYU faculty member) had talked the day before with another BYU religion faculty member who had said that he personally was in the office of Jeffrey Holland (then BYU’s Dean of Religion) when Ezra Taft Benson called to urge taking Pearson back on to the BYU Religion faculty. Holland, the religion faculty member allegedly said, masterfully semi-agreed with Benson but made no commitment.

According to the source, Pearson reportedly “developed a new course of study for the Book of Mormon” that was driven by encouragement from Ezra Taft Benson. In October 1976, the source discussed the Pearson case with Ellis Rasmussen, who had been BYU’s Assistant Dean of Religion under Holland’s deanship and who, by this time, was himself the Dean. “Rasmussen,” the source said, “affirmed that he [Rasmussen] and Holland had discussed the question of Pearson’s re-joining the faculty and decided it not a viable or wise solution. Rasmussen himself had had no pressure put on him to re-hire Pearson since he had been Dean. Pearson had been hired after the Black Box episode to develop a new Religion 130 course and it was that course which Ezra Taft Benson wanted to be piloted at BYU.

Rasmussen and Holland perceived that this would be letting "them" (Ezra Taft Benson and Glenn L. Pearson) "get their toe in the door," so worked it so that the course would be piloted "somewhere in SLC," not BYU. In the end, Pearson did not regain his teaching position at BYU. Instead, he wrote curriculum for the Church’s Institute system, probably while living in Provo or Salt Lake City, and eventually joined the faculty at the Institute of Religion at Utah State University in Logan, and stayed there until his retirement.

Whether Ezra Taft Benson ever recovered his lost $66,000.00 investment in the Black Box/Doodlebug caper is not known.
_____


Note: The above legal action refers to Civil Case #33691, Utah County Court, Sterling Durrant vs. Glenn W. [L. ?} Pearson and J. Dal Peterson.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2014 12:05AM by steve benson.

Is it possible that ETB believed any "gift of discernment" he might possess would allow him to see through a scam? That since the Holy Ghost didn't warn him about the Black Box, that it was therefore a legitimate enterprise?

And if so, could he have learned something from this incident of the danger of relying too much on The Spirit?

My grandfather (like us all) had his faults, many of them significant, but he and I still got along quite well, even when we didn't agree (like on his extremist political views regarding Communist conspiracies, his religiously-rooted racial bias and his ideas about when it was appropriate to poke the Mormon Church in my cartoons--meaning never). Deep down, though, he was a generous man, with a good sense of humor that was struggling to get out. :)

I just feel bad that all the crazy Mormon stuff got in the way of his life.



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2014 11:37AM by steve benson.

Especially those high up in leadership



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2014 11:43PM by almost.

Talk about beating a dead horse! Give it a rest, almost!

Ignorance seeps all the way down through the ranks into the Mormon bottomless pit of programmed pew-plopped piety.

(Amen, by the way, to what "moose" just said. And please don't hijack this thread again by continuing to defend the ignorance of your own TBM family. Thank you).



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2014 01:12PM by steve benson.

I don't think ETB is "famous" for being "ignorant" or "dumb" or "gullible" as the anon poster 'almost' asserts. Rather, he is known of course for being a Mormon prophet. (Maybe to some/many that is synonymous with being any one of the previous epithets but that's beside my point).

I disagree with the claim that religious believers are by definition beyond stupid, although it may seem that way from where non-believers stand.

I also find it less than useful to categorize people by levels of their supposed "dumbness" merely due to one part of their lives/brains that believes a certain way (especially wrt religion).

However, my opinion is of course coloured by my own status as at least a nominal Christian.

In particular regarding the opinions expressed by 'almost' about ETB, is any believer in the same faith any "dumber" than any other believer, or any non-believer (in different ways) for that matter?

If Steve wants to label his grandfather in certain ways that's up to him. As in real life, it's fairly rude coming from outsiders though to call out somebody else's relatives by name and use derogatory terms to describe them.

And how "dumb" is ETB in comparison, say, to one's own relatives who in this Age of Google are still faithful members of the Mormon Church?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2014 02:16PM by Nightingale.

-"almost":

man your grandpa was gullible (n/t)
_____


--steve benson:

It's Mormonism, dude, where followers, by general nature, are gullible. (n/t)
_____


--"almost":

Was in for 40 years, never knew many as gullible as your grandpa

Was by your account. Most of my family is still in but recognizes the flaws of doing business with other Mormons, just surprised how crazy your stories of your grandpa are. I thought he would be more intelligent with his background, but clearly he just was not a smart man.
_____


--steve benson:

No offense, but if your family's still in, that means they're still gullible.

And, to use your own words, how "smart" is that?

As to who's "as gullible as that" when it comes to comparing them to ETB, Mormonism's true believers clearly have their individual areas of expert gullibility.

:)
_____


--"almost":

No question, we both have gullible families,

But your grandpa takes it to the next level. Unbelievable reading through some of your stories.
_____


--steve benson:

Um, the founders of Mormonism took it to the next level.

Cowdery, Harris, et al, who bought into Joe's scam from the get-go (gold plates in a hill behind the farm, rocks in hats for finding buried treasure, polygamy-pushing angels with flaming swords, you know the drill).

ETB is not uniquely dumb in the history of Mormon gullibility but I agree with you that some of the stories about him are certainly theologically entertaining. :)
_____


--"almost":

Yeah but that was before formal education was common

Your grandfather was a respected by politicians as an intellect. Not some backwoods bible thumpers in the 1800's. You should publish all these stories to expose him and his ignorance. Sometimes book smart or spiritual smart is a long way from street smart. Seems from your stories your grandpa had the spiritual smarts but lacked street smarts for sure. Ignorance isn't bliss.
_____


--steve benson:

And what formal education does your family have that still allows them to be sucked in by stories of peep stones, sexual predation-driven polygamy in the name of the Almighty, gold plates conveniently carried away by angels, dark-skinned cursed people made that way by a racist White God, non-existent Meso-American horses being driven around by non-existent Nephite chariot warriors, a book of scripture that claims to be the prophet Abraham's personal diary but really is nothing more than historiucally-verifiable superstitious death beliefs concocted by primitive ancient Egyptians, and magic Masonic underwear?

(Not to mention the payment of 10% fire insurance known as tithing that they are solemnly told will keep them from being burned up in the Last Days).

Taken as a whole, the gullibility ability of "street-smart" Mormons appears to be quite amazing. And those "respected" Mormons happen, in some cases, to be prominent people in society's public sphere.

Be it the Book of Mormon's Stone Box or Glenn Pearson's Black Box, both require a complete and weird suspension of disbelief,

That's religion for ya.
_____


--"almost":

Dad's an PE, mom's a housewife

They have people try and sucker them into mlms, investment properties, and volunteering for the church. Luckily they haven't fallen for this and snuffed out most of the bunk, but they are still paying 10%, but at least not from their retirement savings, as dad believes he paid on income all those years now the money he saved has already been tithed so he's good. His stake president doesn't like it, but is forced to sign his approval when my dad says he's full tithe payer.

My parents are not famous or world renown, so their ignorance is no big deal, but your stories of your grandpas failings are great and I hunk there would be a huge audience who would read about just how gullible a supposed prophet was in today's church. He's truly a pawn in the game the church played, no wonder your feelings for him come out the way they do, id be embarrassed as well and want to separate myself from my grandfather if he did half the things your did. Keep them coming.
_____


--steve benson:

One of the biggest investment-suckering schemes is TITHING, a practice I would venture to guess even street-smart Mormons engage in (including, perhaps, members of your own family?)

And, yes, my grandfather was quite gullible on religious matters but Mormonism both creates and fosters an authority-based gullibility mindset--and boasts a clear history of that fact.

The U.S. Constitution to hang by a thread with Mormon missionaries riding in at the last minute to save it? That was Joseph Smith's gullibility-engendering notion and Grandpa Benson (along with millions of other similarly-deluded Mormons) have bought it hook, line and sinker.

"almost," your family has to be gullible in order to be TBMs. Wake up and smell the B.S. :)
_____


--"almost":

No kidding

It's why my dad won't pay on retirement savings, he recognizes he has already paid his fare share all those years. It's a step in the right direction.
_____


--steve benson:

His "fare share" to a cult? And just what, in non-gullible terms might that be?

Tithing based on the gulliblility-dependent scam religion is an awfully high "fare" to pay at any level.
_____


--"almost":

It's his code for "enough is enough"

No question some gullible people in the church and both our families. I just hope none of mine ever get famous for it.
_____


--steve benson:

So, your dad still pays tithing to a cult at some level? And what level of gullibility-gushing Mormon doctrine and pseudo-Mormon history is acceptable for him to continue to do so?
_____


--"almost":

On belive me he is paying, just glad he's not famous about it

Or still throwing good money at it. No question our families have something in common, ignorant sheep
_____


--[At this point, RFM poster "moose" jumps in]:

Steve, you have incredible restraint and courtesy! (n/t)
_____


--steve benson to "moose":

I would like to have "almost" list the non-gullible Mormon beliefs embraced by his dad, and then to demonstrate how his father's payment of tithing to the Mormon Cult is proof positive of "street-smart" intelligence.

I mean, how dumb does he think I am?

:)
_____


--"almost":

Well he retired at 61, so he did waste 40 years or so payi tithing

I've seen worse, but at least he finally figured it out. Some never do.
_____


--steve benson:

Has he finally figured out that there is no "fare share" worth giving to a Cult in the first place?

And is he still an active, faithful member, despite the gullibility gushers still being spewed forth by Mormonism?

Digging for buried treasure using astrological enchantments, a peep stone and a witching stick was Joseph Smith's early Mormon version of today's Mormon Black Box. Apparently, Smith's frauds seem to not yet constitute "enough of the enough" for your dad.

(May I gently suggest that you think about discontinuing your defense of TBM irrationality that exists at whatever level in your family. I think that might be a good first step for you).

:)
_____


--"almost":


Oh, I'm not trying to defend my family at all

I think they as awelling as others are too gullible for sure, just hope none of them ever get famous and ruin the family name.
_____


--stevebenson:

OK, so TBM members of your family are gullible but not famously so. (n/t)
_____


--"almost":


Yup, is why my stories posted here would be boring

Your grandfather is famous so they are interesting see how a once intelligent and prominent person can fall for such nonsense. Keep them coming, a lot of us grew up following your grandpa only to now find out yars later he is jowly what we thought he was
__________


Now, back in real time, to "almost":

Mormonism's gullibility levels aren't limited to merely the common pew-sitting "little people." Indeed, Mormonism is a hierarchical cult that operates on the thick (and thick-headed) bedrock of collective member gullibility, which (when combined with institutionalized deliberate deception) turns out to be the real keystone of its religion.

Joseph Smith was a non-pious fraudster, Oliver Cowdery as well, Martin Harris likewise. And on and on we go, up to the present with Hinckley, Monson (and I would add Oaks), There were resisters along the way, like William Law, Sidney Rigdon, B.H. Roberts and Hugh B. Brown--all of whom, in one sense or another, either publicly or privately, understood and, to one degree or another, admitted to the fraudulent nature of the Mormon scam.

Your dad was Mormon-gullible and apparently remains so, regardless of whether he refuses to pay tithes on his retirement income. You never denied that he still an active (i.e., devout) member of the Mormon Cult.

The bottom line, "almost," is that the Mormon Cult snares people at all levels of income, status and circumstance.

And, yeah, my Mormon-gullible grandfather (and by extension, me and my TBM family) were " gullible-famous" (a "relative" term, no pun intended) in the small fishbowl of Mormonism; you, your dad and your TBM family weren't "famous." Big deal. In the end, you and your TBM clan, me and my TBM clan still got snookered.

This isn't some kind of TBM gene-pool contest where we're trying to see who swallowed the hook, line and sinker first; the deepest; or from the highest mountaintop. Geezus. dude. we're all in this crammed little lifeboat together. Quit swinging your oars at your fellow paddlers over things that really don't matter when it comes to a "pecking order." Here, there is no such thing.

Thanks for the diversion.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2014 05:33PM by steve benson.

If you believe in the rock and hat, then nothing else is really a stretch.

I was never really into the eternal progression thing, since it seemed so fantastically unreal, unbelievably unattainable and way too much like the silly superstitious stuff of ancient Greek mythology.

Besides, if you can't get past the Black Box, how are you, as a universe-creating god, ever going to manage Black Holes?



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2014 11:38AM by steve benson.

I too would like to thank you, and echo others, for full disclosure. My folks had some crazy mormon magic beliefs too. My dear Mother took me to divination classes in the 80's; yes, in the 80's! My eagle project involved cleaning a neglected graveyard so they coached us to use coat hangers (attached to funnels) to find fallen grave stones and unmarked bodies.

Mom I love you, but I prefer my current world view! I DO NOT WANT TO DIG in a graveyard. I also like to hang my shirts rather than fold them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2014 05:00PM by fudley.

I was in the fifth generation of my Mormon family. It was reasonable to expect that I would follow in the footsteps of my Mormon family but that did not happen.

I used my intelligence and logical ability to “think” my way out of Mormonism. That started shortly after my 14th birthday, when I became an atheist, and I was completely inactive prior to my 18th birthday (in 1959).

If you "believe" in the Scientific Method and only accept information from peer-reviewed science, then getting out of the Mormon cult by age 17 is easy to do. The Church messes up the member's logical thinking skills and that makes them vulnerable to stupid scams like the Black Box/Doodlebug. Being the CEO of the Church does not immunize you to scams.

You mean to tell me that Ezra Taft Benson, former Secretary of Agriculture of the United States and Apostle of the LDS Church invested $66,000.00 towards a magical black box that he had no idea how it worked that would miraculously lead investors towards oil, gold, silver, etc?

And even after he lost the money he remained friends with the charlatan?

Wow.

BTW, $66K was a lot of money then. Where/how would he have such disposable income to invest in such a thing?

. . . went to bat for him in unsuccessfully attempting to help Pearson get his BYU religion prof job back. It really puzzled my source, as well.

Personally, I think ETB may have been so concerned about this whole thing becoming public that he wanted to do whatever he could to help Pearson get back into BYU's faculty ranks and to keep his (ETB's) name out of the limelight on the whole Black Box backfired bamboozlement.

Didn't work, Grandpa. Welcome to RfM. :)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2014 11:41AM by steve benson.

As I noted in the OP, I can't directly attribute the following development to the Black Box episode, but it may not have been a coincidence that ETB eventually sold our cherished Benson family cabin in Salt Lake City's Mill Creek Canyon. It was a large, comfortable, aspen-surrounded place, next to a splashing, bubbling stream, with a tire swing hanging near the stream and a welcome sign out by the narrow, winding canyon roadway that said in Native American Ute language, "Welcome."

Then, abruptly, this favorite family gathering place was gone, out of our hands, with no reason given.

I smelled a rat--and an unexplained one, at that.

Or rather, it might have been the lingering aroma of the "Black Box" hoax.

Who knows? Could the sale of the Benson cabin have been part of some kind of arrangement to keep things hush-hush that allowed for ETB to absorb his investment loss privately without risk of making a public spectacle of it through an embarrassing trial? Hell if I know.

Wait. Anyone got a peep stone and a hat to provide a reliable answer?



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2014 12:08PM by steve benson.

I totally agree that logic and common sense isn't regarded as highly desirable traits for members in the mormon church.
You have to have faith, believe, and obey.

No matter what.

I always wondered how could anyone be fooled by the head in the hat process once it was made public in the LDS church. Just one of many reasons the church is losing members.

And yet there is a sucker born every minute who will believe the most amazingly illogical things. Ever watch The Carbanaro Effect?

And these are who make up a portion of the voting public. Pretty scary to think what religion can do to the masses to make them behave or believe certain illogical and destructive ideas.
Sad really. Very sad.

In 1985 I was living in Arizona and a member of Mormon Royalty there approached me about buying their families share of a black box for $33,000. I thought this family had been taken and was looking for a sucker to get their money back on it. It sounds like the black box might be one of those sacred (secret) things Mormons are so fond of.

I guess I missed out on losing $33,000 and being part of Mormon scam history.

. . . as well as some background as to the details surrounding this particular chapter of the Black Box Bamboozlement?

My source, I am sure, would be quite interested, as would I, in piecing the pitches together.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2014 01:12PM by steve benson.

It was one of the original families that settled Mesa.

. . . if you don't feel comfortable doing so. (I'm into protecting sources when needed and per honest mutual agreement, and I believe I have a track record on that score to prove it).

The public record deserves to have an expanded account of this Mormon greed-grab, made available for all those who want to know how Mormonism and its sheep actually think and operate.

So, if you don't mind (and since you brought it up), some follow-up Qs about the Arizona episode you're referring to:

--How was the Black Box scam presented in terms of its alleged origin, abilities and purposes?

--How was the pitch made for investment purposes in this Black Box scheme?

--Did anyone take the bait for the Black Box Op; and if so, who?

--Was money made from the Black Box operation; and if so, how and for whom?

This is Mormon cult history in latter-day unfolding mold, following its historical trail that has made it so famously deceptive, so deserving bizarre, and so worthy of bad report.

Help us fill in the gaps. People need to know about such matters so that they can make informed and rational decisions for their own lives. We owe it to them. Plus., not to be too picky, but the Mormon Cult owes us our lives and our money back.

:)



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2014 05:23PM by steve benson.

Steve,
I just wanted to thank you for the character you show by writing publicly about unflattering episodes in your family history.

We all have embarrassing episodes in our own families.

We almost always do our best to hide them.

I'm sure that you love you Grandfather dearly and deeply as most of us do.

Thank you for the courage you exhibit in sharing these difficult parts of his history, that do so much to illuminate a very prominent person in our shared heritage.

It's an ASTONISHING story!

I think it's best to be ahead of the curve, and to be honest and open about it.

So, I say damn the torpedoes, suck it up, get it out, encourage others to join the shout and to not be cowed by a cult.

You know, the ol' truth-to-abuse-of-power thing. :)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2014 05:23PM by steve benson.

It is my understanding, having seen several illustrations of, that oil pockets are very large.
The only way you could miss one would to a. be on the very edge of one or b. not drill deep enough over one.

Investing in something you don't know about, especially with the shady too-good-to-be-true claims, you probably just want it to be true.

It's hard to have a large amount of money you're trying to preserve and not have it tied up doing nothing for you. It is hard with inflation constantly eating it and banks giving you no interest for storing it in their facility.

So the best thing would have been to go talk with wildcatters and find out how oil is really discovered with a drill.

I'm sorry ETB lost all that money.
The Black Box sales pitch is not unlike the weavers pitch to the Emperor of the invisible clothes.

Please explain in more detail, as to the circumstances of you viewing the illustrations and to this Black Box's supposed mechanics and abilities.

Here we go:

--How did you come to see these illustrations?

--What, exactly, did these illustrations depict?

--Who showed these illustraions to you?

--What did the Black Box look like?

--How did the Black Box operate?

--Who designed the Black Box; i.e., who were its inventors?

--Who approved the Black Box for approach to potential Mormon investors?

--Did the Black Box's promoters ask targeted investors to pray about putting money into the Black Box scheme?

--Did the Black Box's promoters tell targeted investors that they (the promoters) had been guided through divine inspiration to solicit these possible investors?

--Who were the Black Box's promoters?

--Who were the Black Box's investors, if any?

--What was the promotional pitch for the Black Box?

--Were the promoters asking you yourself to invest in the Black Box scam?

--Did the Black Box make money for its promoters?

--Did the Black Box make money for its investors?

--Do you pay a full tithe? (you don't have to answer that one)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2014 05:25PM by steve benson.

And how was this Black Box going to be any different from a Ouija board?! unbelievable.

About the same time as the events in Steve's story were taking place, something very similar happened where I was living.

I had just returned to Sonoma County from my mission. This was in the mid-70s and people had been rocked for several years by national gas shortages. People were stressed and really feeling like their world was being threatened. Surely we were in the end-times of the latter days.

In this context there had been some intense rumors floating around at church and in the community about this inventor who had come up with a device that greatly increased gas mileage and eliminated exhaust emissions. At some point he and his crew went public and gave a demonstration at a local hotel. They sat up an engine that seemed to be running on its own exhaust that had been circulated through this inventor's black box and then fed back into the carburetor.

The demonstration was very convincing and people were falling all over themselves to invest with this guy. The problem was, there was already an inner circle of investors who had gotten there first. Among these were a number of church members, including a bishop or two and maybe the Stake President. Other members were livid that they had been cut out of this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Relations were severely strained. "How could Brother Soandso kept quiet about this? We've known them for years! And to think they are going to make millions on this while they left us in the dark!"

The inventor followed up his demonstration with a round of press releases about the great and glorious future of his technology. Sometime later he announced that he was working on an electrical power multiplier that could take current and ramp it up. People went crazy. While all the smarty pants engineers and academics were moaning about the energy crisis, here was a self-educated guy who didn't know any better, solving our problems. Not only would America be free of foreign (i.e. Arab) oil, but the church (i.e. selected members) would prosper and be rewarded by God with more money than they would know what to do with.

Eventually, I think it was the SEC who stepped in and prosecuted. The fabulous claims proved empty and one mega church in the area collapsed, partially due to the pastor's investments in the fraud (as well as his sleeping around). There were rifts in the LDS community for years.

It was the classic American story. A shade tree mechanic tackles a tough problem and prevails. He is not educated well enough to know that he can't succeed. His followers are stressed and are looking for confirmation that they are better than their neighbors. They know God wants to bless them, and their boy prophet has been sent to them because they are so deserving. Secrecy, greed, and ego take over.

Black Box, Gold Plates, the old story goes on and on.

It's always interesting to surf through RfM.

I don't really want to get involved here, but I do have a few thoughts.

Anonymous sources are anonymous sources are anonymous sources. They don't carry much weight. This story might be true, or not so much, but no scholar would find it credible simply because it is presented here with protestations of the respectability, knowledgeability, and integrity of the anonymous source.

The source confirming the fitness of the source has his own issues. Not to mention the unmentionable, but Tom Phillips' lawsuit can't lose, anyone? Tom Phillips has dirt he has not yet revealed? Tom Phillips will win in the end, even after he just lost big time? Not to sound jaded or anything. Maybe I'm just having a jaded moment. Can we say "I'm having a jade," the way we say, "I'm having a sad"?

The other thing that caught my eye was a triumphant gloating that some poor poster has been duly put in his place for claiming that his family was not as gullible as Ezra Taft Benson. Frankly, I don't want to know. I think it sounds like bad form all the way around. I can't think why a poster would want to make that point or why he would choose to be obnoxious about it, although I do have to admit, HE'LL FIT RIGHT IN.

On the other hand, although I don't understand the dimensions of the original (can I say out loud childish?) argument, I would agree with the point that not all Mormons are alike. Some hold rather sophisticated world views, and ETB, with all due respect, had unusual ideas about politics and government that open him to valid criticism about being if not "gullible" at least something very like it. I can think of a dozen Mormons from high school biology teachers to my own family about whom I could make a credible case they are/were less deluded about politics and the world outside of Mormonism. After all, not all participants are fervent believers.

His substantive leads were borne out by the facts as substantiated by serious investigative journalism and led to the downfall of an American president. I'd say that's credibility squared. (It bears noting that Nixon was himself also once "a casual responder "--that is, until the tips provided by this anonymous reservoir of verifiable fact became a source and a force for toppling him).

Hooray for the Deep Throats of this world, whoever you may be. You play an important role in assisting the bird dogs seeking to uncover the truth.
_____


(By the way, I have personally seen some of the actual, detailed notes taken by my source pertaining to a variety of matters--including the one at hand--and which the source has produced from the source's voluminous personal collection, many taken contemporaneous to the time that the source spoke to the source's contacts or made direct observations from personal experience that warranted precise documentation. The source is a veritable gold mine of reliable information that has been proven to be trustworthy, time and time again--so much so that reputable institutions have requested permission to archive them for serious research purposes).



Edited 11 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2014 07:25AM by steve benson.

Sounds a lot like this story from Florida -

http://books.google.com/books?id=VLxvUV8xFsgC&pg=PA161&lpg=PA161&dq=black+box+scam+investment+oil+exploration&source=bl&ots=ZKzqp0yYtu&sig=8tOCf2wVvH1-KnoWPKw5RHrWkQ4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=YZ_hU5zQKpbcoASL04LwBA&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=black%20box%20scam%20investment%20oil%20exploration&f=false

Sorry for the delay on responding to your questions about being offered the black box. I was boating with my grandsons today.

This happened about 30 years ago and until now, I have never told anyone about it so my memory about it is not perfect.

I had moved to Arizona and bought a house in the little town of Gilbert. There were 7,500 people that lived there then and the vast majority were LDS. I was making a lot of money and most of the wealthy LDS in Gilbert were real estate developers. Real Estate in Gilbert/Mesa almost over night crashed. I think it was 1985 maybe 1986.

The wealthy Mesa Mormons had all kinds of LDS/investments they started liquidating that surprised me. For example, I was offered a portion of a very large swimming pool that was private yet on a church lot in Mesa. A family member of one of these original LDS settlers in Mesa approached me about buying their Black Box. From what I remember, they had acquired the black box via church contacts and had used it to become wealthy. They could no longer use the box (politics hard to explain) and the family wanted to sell it to a private party for cash and no connection to them.

I thought he was trying to swindle me since he refused to show me the box until I had given him the cash. At the time I was thinking what I fool I would be to fall for this con. It had religion and politics involved. What I learned is that in the East Valley (Mesa, Gilbert) the Church leaders, politicians and business people were one and the same.

I believe the black box was only offered to me because I had no connections to the politician. I think it would be wise for me to simply agree I believe your story and leave it there.

I did get taken by one of them on a swindle using silver dollars. That one still upsets me. I let his church position cloud my better judgement.

Perhaps the black box did make them rich but I think they were scammed by someone in Salt Lake.