They didn’t look like they were out randomly tracting the street. Maybe they were sent by an ex-co-worker who returned from her mission and knows I used to be one. I had my name removed long, long ago. My husband is embarrassed to admit to anyone he was a Mormon, but a number of people in the community know him from his Mormon days.
Anyway…..

My husband looked through the door viewer and didn’t want to open it when he discovered they were missionaries, but I opened it, and then decided that based on those grounds it was my conversation even though he popped a few words in from behind me.

They gave their opening spiel and asked if I believe in Jesus.

I said, "No." (big smile looking them square in the eyes.)

My husband who kneeled just behind me trying to hold back my dog from going outside, said, "no."

Then they said, “we’re here to teach….”

I said, “wait a minute here. I know exactly what you are teaching. I used to be a Mormon. (I didn’t tell them both of us went on missions or went through the temple pre-90’s.) You don’t know what you’re teaching. You’ve been given a set of pat stories in church which they say is correct. You trust them and believe they are correct. I was in your situation once too. You just don’t have all the truth. I love truth. It makes me very happy. I researched everything I could get my hands on and then something marvelous happened….... I discovered that something was wrong between what I was taught in church as opposed to what I was reading even in church history books and literature. They were not the same stories. I discovered that the Mormon stories were built on lies, manipulation and deception and that I didn’t really have the truth at all – I wasn’t taught it – I was taught what they wanted me to hear. This really bothered me, because I like truth and upright integrity – especially in my church prophet or apostles. I could not raise my hand to support them at all. It was then that I had to make the choice between what I had discovered was true, ethics and integrity as opposed to staying in Mormonism which I knew was not true or correct and which authorities had zero ethics and integrity past and present. I have researched it from every angle. Then I left when my moral standards couldn’t have me remain in that kind of lie, and when I realized I had more moral ethics than the general authorites all put together. I would never go back. I learned how to build ethics, morals and integrity from inside myself, not from what some leader tells me based on teachings that are lies while telling me it’s true. I’m very happy out of Mormonism.”

Senior elder: “We know it’s true…..”

Me: “stop right there. You can’t tell me anything I don’t know, but I can tell you a lot of things you’ve never been told within Mormonism. You don’t know it’s true, you were programmed from an infant and told it was true. Then your feelings, emotions and thoughts follow that cultural entanglement to produce what you want to believe – or in this case what you are told to believe. You know that if you don’t believe it, then you are not righteous, elect, etc, therefore your mind, emotions and feelings will create corresponding stuff to help you fit in. That has nothing to do with knowing, it is programming from your parents and Mormon culture. Please, do not try to convince me that you know anything. I happen to know it is not true – one of us is wrong and I know it’s you. Sorry. I know you are told only what the general authorities/church want you to know and in church meetings you are not given all the detailed information about anything past or present within Mormonism. You are taught that something is right and that you should believe it out of obedience, and therefore you do. Honey, that is not “knowing”, that is programming.”

Me: “you come out here and sell people a bunch of lies which you have not researched and I don’t go for that.”

Elder: “it’s not a lie, it’s true and I’d ask you to read the book of Mormon and pray about it.

Me: “I’ve read it, it’s not true. All non-mormon scientific d.n.a. proves it is not true. Sorry.”

Husband: “Go to mormonthink.com and you’ll get the information that they kept from you in Mormonism.”



Me: “if you REALLY love the truth, I hope you then search to find the truth and learn that you have not been given the truth. (looking at Junior elder I put my hand on his arm, looked in his eyes and said, “honey, you really want to know the truth don’t you?” (Senior elder was scowling, and I put my hand on his arm and said, “you really want to know the truth don’t you?”

Husband: “if you don’t want to know the truth then you deserve to stay in Mormonism.” (geez, he still has anger issues.)

Senior Elder: “I'm not going on that website. go to lds.org….”

Me: cutting him off, “oooooh, I’ve been there, I know all about it, but if you really want to know about it, as you have not been taught, you can go to mormonthink.com if you really wish to know truth."



me: "you want me to go on your website but you don't want to learn from mine. That's ignorant!"

Then as I turned to go inside I said, “ I wish you both the ability to find truth in your life – the real truth behind lies. ”

Senior elder was extremely mad. Junior elder was mildly angry.
They left.

Next time I think I just won’t open the door. Our opinions are so different, but I really don't like someone coming to my door on a relaxing Saturday afternoon pushing their beliefs on me. It kinda got my fur up. I had no interest in being anything but up front and no desire to walk on glass around their pushyness.

And...to top it off, mid-way through the confrontation at my door I had an extremely vivid image of Cheryl's copper patina garden hose encasement and thought, I'm extremely glad I don't have a garden hose in the front yard this afternoon. (not that I'd actually use it, but it's strange that it popped into my head while I was standing on the front porch.)

I am however thinking about putting a little wooden hand painted sign on my front lawn reading:
Exmormon and happy.



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2012 06:42PM by dec.

It may have been disconcerting for you to deal with that unexpectedly on a Sat. afternoon, but WAY TO GO!

Maybe some of what you said will start one or both of them thinking...

It seems you dealt with it very well
you've given them pause for thought.
you've probably addressed their spiel with more ability and knowledge than they have ever seen before
and, lastly, if you made them angry enough, they will leave you alone in future

[methinks, if you had turned a hose on them, or let loose the dog, you could not have caused them more discomfort]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2012 05:49PM by EssexExMo.

..."Besides, son, you're 20 years old, which means you don't really know sh!t about anything."

you're really on to something. When a shavetail 19 year old missionary knocks on a door, most likely an older person will answer.

If you're fifty years old, there's not much a teenager can tell you, unless you're a dumbass. In fact, the 19 year old is implying that you're ignorant by pretending to give you fresh information. Kick his ass off to the sidewalk.

A missionary coming to your door to give his or her version of the "truth" is fair game in my opinion. Sometimes the student is really the teacher in diguise.

Good for you. Love the line -- Honey, that is not “knowing”, that is programming.

The thought of seeing a 19 yr old teenage guy preaching at my door saying they have the truth is usually off-putting, but I think I was more mad at the General authorities past and present. What terrible old men they are sending these young guys out with lies and half-truths and then some manipulative answers to support the deceptions and half-truths.
My anger was really directed at the dudes at the top, but then the more these 2 punks were pushing me the more I just thought how insane the lying game is. It looked so weird, to spend money and preach at my door a bunch of half-lies they'd been taught as God's word.

Then on top of it, I thought, they're mad at me for coming to MY door and having me call them on their bs!!!
I watched them walk down the street and their heads were down, scowls still on their face 3 houses down.
What nerve!
What gall!

now I've got to go and walk and see if I can get this yucky energy off me.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2012 06:02PM by dec.

Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secrets via the webpage lds.org.

THIS is how I want to deal with the mishies! (Better than me putting up a sign that says "All cult recruiters will be shot. Mormons, this means YOU."

I think what I should have said is...

"you want me to go on your website but refuse to go on mine or get my information? You are socially ignorant punks and get off my property or I'm phoning the police right now. "

Their arrogance and ignorance really made me angry.

That's perfect! I bet you have planted some very productive seeds!

Brilliant - I love people who can think on their feet like that. Hopefully you made them think too. Someday they'll be on here telling about how that encounter saved them from Mormonism.

Good for you! You certainly didn't owe that to them but who knows what "seed" you may have planted in either of them. I had a number of "seeds" planted on my mission that didn't grow until later.

You are better than me - when they got made I would've made some quip about "the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center"

That was excellent! I especially loved this bit...

<<Senior elder: “We know it’s true…..”

Me: “stop right there.>>

It gave me goosebumps!

Find out where they live, show up on their doorstep and share the truth with them :)

Wow. Truly thou art inspired.

What a story!

yes, I should have asked them for their address so I could show up on their doorstep at an inconvenient time their supposed to be relaxing, like maybe Sunday morning, and then ask them if they discovered that the apostles past and present had lied to them would they want to know it?


I mentioned to my husband that I should have told them they were socially rude (only wanting me to read their stuff and not reading mine) and that I'd call the police, but he said that they would have thought it was too negative and then wrote the whole thing off... this way he thinks they weren't as able to do that. My husband said he met a few people like me on his mission and it didn't affect his brainwashing then, but years later it did.

I drilled into them a few times to research more fully all the details of mormonism past and present because they have NOT been told all the details and truth and therefore they are NOT out here teaching the truth -- because they don't know the truth at all, as they have only been taught a version which is only partly correct. That's what made them so mad.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2012 10:48PM by dec.

It has not occurred to me to target the fight and go with tactical objectives. All RMs know of the BS. The numbers games. The chosen few who can break the rules, but because of their "salesman personalities" baptize anyway, and the contrasting straight arrows who do not. The high pressure sales techniques. The constant blame for not being able to sell a broken product.

Hmmm.

I would love to have them do some serious gardening before we talk about Joseph.

hahaha
dang, I should have done that. My grass needed mowing today.

Awesome!

You know the more mad the better. I've found it is the ones who take the church and their testimonies the most serious leave when they find the truth. Good for you for planting those seeds. You might have saved 2 kids lives.

Wow you are are gutsy lady! I don't know if I would have had the courage to even open the door. Way to go girl. Lets hope in the future when the Elders begin to hopefully feel that cognitive dissonance they will remember that website.

Their response was to read the BoM and pray about it??!!!

The Big Boyz better get their PR Department working on this tired old lame tactic. It isn't working on savvy internet folks, and certainly not on savvy EXMOS! hahaha

Me thinks you have really planted some oak seeds with these youngins that will grow with a little research on their part. And maybe you have rescued them from a lifetime in the cult!

THE TRUTH WILL SET THEM FREE!

Way-to-go!!!

That was just a thing of beauty. Way to go.

You said much more than I ever would, and much nicer that I would have.

I used to be a nice person, But that guy died by the hand of a batsh1t crazy TBM mother with a penchant for violence.

Even after 37 years I still miss the old me. I'm angry all the time and it sucks.

New here but I don't understand the anger towards the Elders. You state that you were once a missionary. I would think you would have some compassion for their situation vs. the hostility that you showed. Remember that these guys are young and just trying to do what they "feel" is the the right thing.

Really, K2man? Really????? Anger is part of the healing process when one has been lied to about something as important as eternal salvation.

Everyone here has a right to be angry, though not all of us are.

The fact that these mishies are young and "just trying to do what they 'feel' is right" doesn't excuse them from pushing an effing cult on the rest of us ... and especially on those of us who believed it and later studied our way out of it with THE TRUTH.

You're new here. Be ready for anger, grief, hostility, bitterness, and all the rest of what happens when people lose something they thought was precious, but found was just BS.

Sorcha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Everyone here has a right to be angry, though not
> all of us are.



I am not generally angry, although I am always concerned about the environment of community in which I live; which their proselyting represented.

Initially my response was one of concern and annoyance, but as the conversation went on I did become angry, and as I mentioned my real anger was toward the old men in Salt Lake past and present who send these young people out with lies and deceptions and half truths.
It put me back to the time I was sent out with the same set of deceptions and half-truths and they are the ones I am really angry with.... it is dispicable that they do this to these young men and women. Just deplorable. What cruelty to let them go out and claim the book of mormon is true and that I should read it to get a testimony of mormonism when all scientists (except for the byu paid dudes who have websites) all scientists know that d.n.a. proves the book of mormon is false - a lie.

k2man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> New here but I don't understand the anger towards
> the Elders. You state that you were once a
> missionary. I would think you would have some
> compassion for their situation vs. the hostility
> that you showed. Remember that these guys are
> young and just trying to do what they "feel" is
> the the right thing.


You're kidding right?
Hostility? I was telling the truth and you call it hostile!!

Why do you think the truth sounds hostile?
How do you think I could have sugar-coated the truth for them?
Why would you think I should sugar coat the truth for them?
oh, because you say I was in their situation?

Look, selling people lies in the name of God is NOT doing the right thing.
I wish someone would have told me that when I was on my mission. If they had perhaps it would have got me to research and study sooner.

I do not care if they were 20 years old or 80, they are trying to decieve the public with lies that they are not even aware of and coming door to door.
I'd do the same if a 19 yr old tried to sell you candy if it were actually crack, and you slam me because I'm saying that I don't want this preached at me on my doorstep, calling ME hostile?

go away.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2012 02:02AM by dec.

Way to go, dec! You're my new hero! We exmo's don't owe mishies a goddamned thing, IMNSHO. Sugarcoating is for wimps and you told the truth to them like it is. Don't stop. They (and maybe K2man, too) need to hear it.

And by the way, YES, I'm PISSED that I ever believed this BS!!

I would be angry too if I had dedicated 2 years of my young life to a church who claimed to have answers, but couldn't stand up to Previously dedicated people who had left.

The mishey's are not prepared to answer to the truth that people are finding. They have no arguments that stand up to the info. people are finding out about the church.

The church has not been able to teach these mishey's any come backs, because there aren't any. They probably feel angry that what they were told would be a sure method, is failing them. Failing them block after block. Day after day. I'd be angry that my church (who made so many truth claims) didn't teach me how to defend it, or myself.

I would be angry that day after day, house after house, i'm hearing: Read mormonthink.com.

Maybe after a while they will wonder what it is they are up against, and read mormonthink.com. And they will go home, and read it some more. Then they will show up at RFM and ask for our support as they leave and find their way in the real world.