Tonight felt like the end of my marriage. My husband plays video games about 6-7 hours a day. From 5:30 when he comes home from work until he is ready to go to sleep at night. Saturdays are even longer. Tonight I told him I think that he has a problem and might be escaping the marriage issues through gaming all day. This did not go down well and he was very defensive and angry. He does not want to give this up. I told him that we have a 6 year old and a marriage to try and work on and that we should be spending more time as a family. He does not see that his playing is excessive. He basically said that he is not happy in the marriage and not happy spending time with me and would rather be alone doing his own thing. We are trying to make it work for our little girl. I have chosen to leave the church and he is upset and feels that I have not kept the promises I made in the temple. I reminded him that after I discovered the church had lied to me I couldn't believe that he had decided to stay and I was just as disappointed in his decision. We met our last year in college 9 years ago and dated for a year before we got engaged. I liked him alot but was not in love with him and felt pressured to get married as many aging women (23) do in Mormonism. He was in lust and maybe did love me although I am not sure that it was really love or infatuation. He said he felt the spirit confirm I was the right one. I was having my doubts during our engagement but couldn't back out. I was his first girlfriend and he was not experienced and pretty naeve. Our marriage fell apart quickly and I developed depression from my crumbling testimony and bad marriage decision. I got pregnant a year into marriage and we have tried to fake everything especially for our child but neither of us are in love. I can honestly say that we are good friends but that is obviously not always enough to sustain a marriage. I feel so sad and alone that I have even contemplated suicide. My entire family is heavily into the church and my husband still attends. Everyone blames my depression on losing my testimony. I blame the church for my depression. It is horrible to find out the faith you were raised in is actually a big fake. Leaving Mormonism alone is so incredibly isolating. It is the churches fault for pressuring people to get married young even if they are not completely sure they are making the right decision. My life is so messed up. I want to stay married because I fear what divorce would do to my little girl. I am willing to do anything for her happiness. I feel like if we decided to divorce I would feel even more alone and sad. There may not be a solution to this mess but I just had to let it all out so thanks for listening! Sometimes this website is the only thing that makes me feel validated in leaving Mormonism :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2012 03:10AM by turnonthelights.

I'm sorry you are in a very, very difficult situation.

Here are a few ideas for you just in case they can help.

1) You are right that your husbands video game playing is beyond excessive. However, if you try to make it about how much video game playing he is doing, you loose. You don't want to be his mom and he doesn't want to you be his mom. What you have to figure out how to do is talk to him about the things you and your daughter need him to be doing instead of playing video games (and don't say it that way). Find a time when you won't make him defensive and figure out how to talk about the things you and your daughter need from him that you aren't getting. Possible things that could go on the list
- Time he spends reading to your daughter each day
- Help around the hose
- Time talking - maybe 30 minutes a day
- Going on dates or other activities/projects together.

You say you are friends. Find ways to build on the friendship. Again, drop the "you play too much video games" thing completely - you are right, but trying to tell him that you will loose. Instead focus on what he is willing to do if anything for your relationship and family.

2) This will be difficult to do, very difficult where you are very sad and hurt but find out what things he would want you to do to be happier in the marriage. Just one or two things and try your best to do them.

3) Get regular excercise every day. Again very difficult to do when you are feeling down, but it will make a world of difference. Make sure it is something you truly enjoy and not drudgery. If possible do it with someone else. If possible do some of the excercise with your husband.

4) Find good friends that you can lean on. It sounds like emotional support an intimacy is going to be minimal in your marriage for now and maybe always. Don't find friends to whine about your marriage too - at least not excessive. Find friends that you have a strong emotional bond and connection too. Ideally ones you aren't believing Mormons to help you overcome the isolation.

5) The church is an influence in your depression but it's not the complete cause. Not believing the church isn't either - although the isolation you feel even though you are the one who is right does contribute. Do you know if you have some kind of medical depression or are you just sad about the situation? If possible medical help and/or a good therapist could make all the difference.

Just a few ideas for a very difficult situation.

bc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm sorry you are in a very, very difficult
> situation.
>
> Here are a few ideas for you just in case they can
> help.
>
> 1) You are right that your husbands video game
> playing is beyond excessive. However, if you try
> to make it about how much video game playing he is
> doing, you loose. You don't want to be his mom
> and he doesn't want to you be his mom. What you
> have to figure out how to do is talk to him about
> the things you and your daughter need him to be
> doing instead of playing video games (and don't
> say it that way). Find a time when you won't make
> him defensive and figure out how to talk about the
> things you and your daughter need from him that
> you aren't getting. Possible things that could go
> on the list
> - Time he spends reading to your daughter each
> day
> - Help around the hose
> - Time talking - maybe 30 minutes a day
> - Going on dates or other activities/projects
> together.
>
> You say you are friends. Find ways to build on
> the friendship. Again, drop the "you play too
> much video games" thing completely - you are
> right, but trying to tell him that you will loose.
> Instead focus on what he is willing to do if
> anything for your relationship and family.
>
> 2) This will be difficult to do, very difficult
> where you are very sad and hurt but find out what
> things he would want you to do to be happier in
> the marriage. Just one or two things and try your
> best to do them.
>
> 3) Get regular excercise every day. Again very
> difficult to do when you are feeling down, but it
> will make a world of difference. Make sure it is
> something you truly enjoy and not drudgery. If
> possible do it with someone else. If possible do
> some of the excercise with your husband.
>
> 4) Find good friends that you can lean on. It
> sounds like emotional support an intimacy is going
> to be minimal in your marriage for now and maybe
> always. Don't find friends to whine about your
> marriage too - at least not excessive. Find
> friends that you have a strong emotional bond and
> connection too. Ideally ones you aren't believing
> Mormons to help you overcome the isolation.
>
> 5) The church is an influence in your depression
> but it's not the complete cause. Not believing
> the church isn't either - although the isolation
> you feel even though you are the one who is right
> does contribute. Do you know if you have some kind
> of medical depression or are you just sad about
> the situation? If possible medical help and/or a
> good therapist could make all the difference.
>
> Just a few ideas for a very difficult situation.


+100. sounds like (IMHO) DH might be retreating from the Heavily Competitive wacky world of guys/Mormonism.

In Mormon culture, a guy who isn't Climbing the Ladder is made to feel nearly worthless. Peter Priesthood/Walking Wallet isn't only a figment of My imagination, my 'former' DW had (has?) it also.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2012 03:16PM by guynoirprivateeye.

Dear turnonthelights, I feel for you so much. I have felt and have been through so much of what you are describing. There is nothing wrong with you; this is not your fault. I know that things my seem overwhelming - insurmountable.

Stay focused on your little girl. She needs you, and in time you will find that she is the greatest source of joy in your life.

Be true to yourself and to your feelings. If what you have said is accurate regarding your husband and your motivations for marrying him, own up to it and be honest with him. Little good can be accomplished by continuing to live a lie -- whether it be in reagrds to your true feelings about your husband or the Church.

I will not lie, the transition that you will go through is painful, but there is liberation on the other side. Continuing to live a life that conforms to the expectations of others but that fundamentally betrays your heart will only bring sorrow. Do not forestall the hard times that are necessary for you to heal and to move on with your life.

In dealing with your husband, make sure that you maintain the focus on your daughter. Make sure that everything that the two of you do is focused on her well being. Thankfully, my ex-wife and I agreed that we would act in concert to minimize the upset/disruption for our son. And even though there were wounded feelings initially, we have evolved to the point where we have deep concern/consideration for each other.

Lastly, be aware that if your TBM family is anything like mine, they will make every attempt to manipulate you and blame you for the turmoil you are experiencing. It is a difficutl thing to bear. But be true to yourself. And good luck --- I wish that there were something I could do other than offering my empahty and expressions of support.

Hi Turnonthelights: I am so sorry for your plight; it must be very difficult. I want to THANK YOU for your willingness to share your story here. Alot of people here will listen with soft ears and truly care for you! Therefore, have NO doubt that your are very important and certainly among friends.

Keep in mind a very important aspect.....it may be very damaging, long term, for your 6 yr old to live in a home where the parents are not in love, and their physical affection is lacking. Kids sense this. Professional counselors say kids feel a security and peace when their parents are truly in love....and the opposite can be very bad for the child.

I left the LDS church years ago....and my testimony to you is that is it a major mega-scam fraud. The doctrine is FALSE, the history is doctored, the message is flawed. It is surely, I believe, NOT a Christian church theologically, because they embrace a counterfiet God; one who used to be a man and progressed, advanced to BECOME a God. That is heretical, ludicrous. Yet the phony prophet Joseph Smith is praised. Please read carefully all 5 verses of hymn #27.

My heart goes out to you, dear one. You live with a man addicted to video games, who does not adore you. That is a very big problem. You see, YOUR mental health may be more important to your 6 yr old than just the state of having a "daddy" in the house.

1. If you have not already done so, cut out sugar from your diet. Immediately. This will reduce your depression and is why depression is highest in Utah.
2. Drink coffee! This may make H mad but will reduce depression.
3. Tell your husband that if he doesn't control his addiction/obsession you will speak with the bishop. Also, keep a list of the amount of time he is spending playing games which ARE addictive.
4. Know that the depression is chemical and if the for two suggestions aren't enough, get care for it.

Note that the church causes depression also by the WoW - both by forbidding coffee and by keeping down your protein intake. You need more protein - eat meat except for hot dogs or other prepared meats. The protein will help reduce your depression.

The only thing I agree with here is tracking his video game use. Likewise, keep track of YOUR activities - housework, child care, shopping, etc.

Written down, it's much more clear to see.

But don't threaten bishop intervention. 1) It's none of the bishop's business, and 2) it's NONE of the bishop's business.

You start tracking his video game playing, he can assume that you are trying to be his mother, and like the first replyer said, you will lose.

Do NOT do that.

You can't control another's behavior, at least successfully or for the long term, by carefully documenting the time he spends engaged in said behavior. Whether it's drugs, alcohol, work, gaming, social networking, sex, religion, porn, running, tv, etc.; I've heard it said that if an activity begins to have deleterious, chronic consequences in one's life then it shifts from an activity to an obsession. If your husband's gaming is causing deleterious, chronic consequences in his life then I would guess that it's become an addiction for him. And nagging / cajoling / documenting said addiction on your part will only cause resentment on his.

Unfortunately (and this has been a hard lesson for me to learn in life) the one person you can change in the equation is you. I am parroting other's on this thread:
- Exercise
- See a Good Therapist (non-momo hopefully, or at least open-minded)
- Sleep 7 - 8 Hours per Day
- Do Cut Back on Sugar (it is definitely a mood altering substance)
- Do Drink Coffee - It Helps
- Find Buddies to Hang with that SHARE Common Interests with You
- Start Doing Things for You - Almost Selfishly (whatever that might be)
- BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF AND WITH YOUR HUSBAND
- Love Your Daughter, and Do What's Best for Her (but not at the expense of your own emotional well-being, otherwise, you won't be able to do what's best for her, because you're not at your best - the ol' catch 22)

And then, as you begin to change, if your husband decides to not change, then you decide if you need to move forward in life without him in your life.

My 2¢.

Firstly depression issues? I tried cutting out the sugar and did the vegitarian thing, worked in the seven day aventist church
more so, even led to a short romance, but got a slap when I mention about the lds mormon eternal marrige thing or nothing?
Looking back, again I gave up a woman who was everything glowing and happy in jesus and because she was not a mormon, turned her down when she want seriousness. She didnt care if husband, children had any desire after death to want to be together as long as we were all at jesus feet, we would be happy and not want worldly things like sealed up marriges. The sealing was the holyghost of promise nothing to do with temples let alone I would say to aventist their blasted saturday sabbath either, the bible says.

But your mormon marrige? nothing pisses me off more than sports, games more important that a spouse even sex. I personally would not tolerate a lack of sex if that is what your need is, in or out of marrige, GET IT but dont answer to the church. DONT be threatend with abuse either by the spouse for getting sex elsewhere, nor make ya kids think your bad as you must be happy and your body satisifed and so does your husband but he sounds like a big fat lazy mormon slob.

Make the bastard jellous. But if you are not the sex addict type like me, then a fat slob husband is better than an adultrer, tho maybe he gets off with porno when your not looking and he's not playing his video games.

Love and sex is everything baby, more than money and power tho many exchange it for money and power but the best combination is love, sex,money and power the works, but then if its not fucking sealed up its usless here after so again guilt trips by mormonism and living in fear off missing out.

The only thing your missing out on is a nice hot guy who wants and needs you now who is not your husband and for the sake of the kids you dont want to shame the kids.

What will be will be but if your not about sex, but just family matters, then a potato couch husband, is not so bad, one of you will end up like the other depends who wins or go the otherway and do stuff, or maybe a bit of both compromise. Let him have his ego but refined, but if its a sexual need, that he refuses to fulfill, that is a problem. Love is a choice then for the sake of kids to dry up to the bones, live of the happy memories of falling pregnent and having children that is a blessing unless it is not, in or not in love and in your case not in love.

If having children with him is not such a fond memory anymore of the past early romantic times, then save you sanity, depression and go out and live again without lds influence, unless you find a sexy man who loves you maybe more than the church and its idiotic routines that drain the fuck out of ya.

This is Larry John, the worse sinner of all, who gets what he wants but to keep it, means pissing some party off. Remember what people think of you is none of your business.
MOVE ON. Is it all about you or some outside god the man with a penis who has lots of wife's...... Thats enough to make one selfish just thinking about it.

No wonder the woman from the SDA church couldnt care less about marrige here after or sealings, as she was married to jesus or thought so...and that is all some woman want even for the sake of children yet the big boss of jesus says cant come into mormon heaven because you didnt seal up or you had left him and the church. Fuck the big boss, jesus is cool and in those churches jesus is the only god as he said there is no one above or below me and see me you seen the father. But wait there is more, jesus was married and sealed up went to that temple feast wedding but for himself the bible story says secretly, but wait there is more jesus never died on the cross and escaped thanks to judas his best friend that got him on a boat and off to india, leaving his wife and kids behind who ended up in france...

If all this was true and no one really knows except the masons who keep that blood line secret, and masons and mormons with secret handshakes to heaven perpetuated lies about eternity when jesus never really died at all, just to get money and tithes, well indeed, if all that was true would you not want to do what you really wanted to do afterall????

Get laid and more and more, and not with some slob husband unless he himself needs it to with another, and your hanging on for sake of kids or hope of mormonism? What damage this church and its doctrine does?

depression and get help or just get laid and have some romance but, devoice? let him devoice you then when he finds out you dont take his shit anymore..

anyway I'm talking shit I know nothing.
food for thought to provoke you thats all.

do what you want and harm no one illegally.

Larry

it seems that you two need a break.

i don't mean divorce which to me equals nuclear war --yes, that bad.


i mean, you both need time off. call it vacation, retreat, separation, whatever. the point is that he needs to understand that love in unconditional -with or without the church or any other organization.

if after the retreat he still says he is not in love well, farewell then. you don't need that. come to hawaii and date me.

;)

a tiny bit of my experience in gaming

I did not start "gaming" till I was about 46yrs old. I was working full time, son in military, daughter living with 2 men and an elderly mother in early stages of dementia.

My escape from reality point came the day my son called me from Australia on his first shore leave. He called at about 4am and was drunk as two skunks with his marines hootin and hollerin in the background.

He was as happy as I have ever heard him...talking about swimming the Great Barrier Reef. As we got off the phone I realized as might as well get ready for work and I turned on the TV. I was a tiny bit grumbly over the early part but felt sooo good about my son, all was good.

I watched the planes hit the towers. I knew my son's life would be forever changed. I became glued to the TV listening to hear a mention of his ship.

Point Being...there was my stressor

A neighbor, the age of my son suggested video gaming instead of getting drunk and singing loudly lamenting from my trailer.

He showed me Ultima Online on his computer. It intrigued me.
It was absolutely what I was looking for to get me OUT OF my reality.

During my 5 yrs playing UO, I never missed work or a Saturday lunch with my Mom. I even continued to be a TA at the local college in electronics 2 nights a week for socialization.

It did however completely take me over. I very much enjoyed it and it became the driving point in my life. I dreamed it all night and day.
My online persona was a beautiful creature with no problems I couldn't fix.

During those 6yrs I saw at least a dozen relationships suffer or end within the guild group I talked nightly with. The men would say "Wifey Aggro" if they had to leave.

I have heard children neglected in the background and girlfriends yelling

It became way better than my real life. My 2 cats didn't mind too much and I didn't date anyway so for me it worked well. I don't know what experiences I might of missed, however.

I only cut back when I had too.

Many people smoothly transition out of it. I have seen this happen more often than not. These are just cheap observations. Most gamers run thru their cycle with it and move on... that could take years worst case for a hubby/parent.

When the desire to interact in the real world becomes a pleasant and beckoning place, gamers can turn about. Comes in small steps sometimes and other times I have seen people simply delete the game.

You and child are probably the one of the only reasons he still is not fully emmersed....it can get worse. Your love is soo important although you may not see it at this time

Sometimes it helps to play with your hubby.... like.. after after the child is put to bed. Requires 2 computers, I know.

You could make bedtime for child a ritual with both parents... and then off to gaming together till bed. There is a chance, however that you will become addicted as well....but if you can keep your perspective about it.... playing with your spouse could be very beneficial to you both. Common ground so to say

Some respond to an ultimatum..... many don't and it only brings hurt and resentments. Only you can make that decision.

Sorry this was so long but I am still playing about 5 hours a day. I am disabled, on SSD and I have found a balance that is good enough for me. It does not stop me from doing what I want or need to. I don't like real life at this point and have pretty much stopped trying too hard.

Best to you and I hope this let you see inside a gamer's head abit

Vitamin D for the win with mild depression



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2012 09:28AM by mindlight.

A little video gaming isn't a bad thing. Six to seven hours every day after work is a bit much though, since unless he is not sleeping, he is obviously neglecting every other part of his life. The problem is, he is an adult who can make his own free choices, so you can't treat him like a child who is addicted.

My advice is to talk to him about it, and try to get him to set up a schedule for his gaming, that doesn't interfere with his entire life. Tell him you don't mind him doing some gaming, if it is how he deals with stress, but that you are not willing to become an x-box widow.

I game a good deal myself, probably five to six hours on a day off, maybe an hour or so after work, but I don't neglect my life for it. Actually, of the five or six hours I do on my day off, I probably only actually play for two hours in fifteen minute burst, while I go and see what my son is up to, make him a snack, clean up a mess, or play Legos with him.

Turnonthelights - I'm sorry you feel this way, and I hope you'll be able to find your way out of it, whatever that result is.

A couple things I think are important here:

- Neither of you are happy, and both of you are clearly affected by this. You're depressed. He's escaping the problem through video games.

- He's stated he's not happy spending time with you and wants to do his "own thing."

I truly think the two of you need to separate (not necessarily divorce) for a while. See how it goes. It will be difficult and very emotional, but I truly think that you need to be able to step away from the problem for six months to a year to catch your breath, get out of the day to day irritations, and be able to look at what's going on in your relationship with a little more distance.

The realities here are this:
- You have a child together. Regardless of how much he wants to do his own thing, the care and nurturing of your child is something he needs to contribute to. This is a non-negotiable fact, but particularly important if he wants to be a husband

- There's nothing wrong with video games. There is something wrong with video gaming when he's unwilling to contribute to to the household to do it.

- Yes, getting divorced can be extremely difficult for a child. BUT - in the long run staying in a bad marriage is worse. Your daughter will learn from watching you that getting out of a bad marriage and doing what's important to heal herself is not important. It will affect her way of handling relationships in the future. Many kids of divorce on this board (including me) will tell you honestly - they were okay when their parents divorced. It actually was a "why didn't you do this sooner" reaction. She will be okay. Really.

Ultimately, you need to take care of yourself and your daughter. If he's checked out of the marriage and doesn't care to solve the problems, you already have your answer - you're just making yourself miserable by staying.

I had a similar situation. Not as extreme with the video gaming, but my former husband worked long hours and spent all his free time watching TV or playing video games. He refused to go out or do anything with me or our young daughter. I gave up and just took my daughter out and had a good time at parks, playgrounds, the library, and the aquarium. Eventually I divorced him. Having a limited amount of time with his daughter (visitation time) was a wake-up call for him, and he started paying more attention to her. We still fight constantly, but he's a better father now than he was when we were married.
I don't know what it would take for your husband to grow up and start acting like a father. I don't think it helps for you to stay with him for your daughter's sake. She's not getting much out of being around him, anyway. Maybe you can talk to him and tell him that his little girl needs a dad who spends time with her. Maybe if you moved out for a little while, he would wake up and get his act together. You can't force anyone to change, but you can give him an opportunity to change. If he's not willing or able to be a good father, you and your daughter are probably better off without him.

It'll be harder until you control depression. Have you seen a doctor? Tried Prozac, etc? Tried talking to a counselor? One would provide a reality check for you as you go through this. Do you have any friends to talk with about your life? Keeping all this inside is toxic.

I'd start by logging his hours on the machine and at work and sleep. Give it 2 weeks.

You've already tried arguing. Next try action. Is there somewhere you can live for a couple of weeks?

From reading your posts, I'd say your instincts are all dead-on. Don't be afraid to follow through on what you feel.

Depression is anger directed inward. If you can let go and direct some of it appropriately away from yourself, it might break the grip.

I'm a recovering gamer. I've spent months neglecting my life. But I see the wreckage and stop cold turkey. I don't even play solitaire on a computer anymore. I can't stop if I do. It is totally addictive It releases a flood of endorphins and neurotransmitters in my brain and I am in heaven. He has to decide which he wants.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2012 10:35AM by Heresy.

Tough issues. If you live in Mormon country, you may want to call some local churches. Many have groups of exmos that will likely have folks who have been in your exact spot. And most of them will not question or require any new religious commitment from you. They will just be better able to relate to where you are and support you to get to where you're going -- wherever that may be. I know when I was leaving the church, I was fortunate enough to stumble across a group like this and it was so wonderful to realize I was not alone and find people that would care for me and support me on the journey.

It sounds like you are in an extremely difficult situation. I think bc posted some great ideas. I think counseling could be very helpful to you. Depression is condition that is hard to live with and you need to take care of your physical and mental health so you can face all the other joys and challenges in your life.

Also if the two of you can go to marriage counseling together that could also help.

I think focusing on your daughter is a great idea.

My thoughts are with you as you go through this. I don't know what your current beliefs are. I still believe in Jesus. If you do as well, finding a faith community could be helpful. I find a lot of comfort in my relationship with Jesus. It, and counseling, has helped me get through many difficult times.

Hi

Please don't mention your thoughts of suicide to anyone. If your husband gets hold of that info, or his lawyer does, they can use it against you if a fight over your daughter ever takes place.

Best wishes

Grey

First of all your decision must be yours based on what YOU know about your marriage. We don't know much. I will tell you however, that divorcing when a child is 6 can not be any worse than doing it at 20 and 22 which is what my girls ages were. One daughter does not talk to him and the other just tries to keep calm between all of us ( that is working ). Age is not the only consideration. My girls were devistated at our divorce. Being older and understanding adult issues made them realize what a sleezeball he had been. They found out things about him that were truly shocking. So at least at age 6 your daughter would not go thru that. You CAN have a divorce that allows the child to have peace when in the home of the other. But it must be agreed upon in advance.And agree she will not be baptised at age 8.

Escaping to play video games is truly a sign he is not into the marriage. MY ex did the same. You married very young and you did so due to the church. Now you are out and can live your own life. There are so many people out there to make friends with and who would love you for YOU and not because you are walking the straight line in the cult with them.

You are young. There are reasons for your depression if it is that. People call all sorts of things depression. You have a child you seem to love and I can't understand any person with an adorable child saying they are depressed. Sad, yes. My children kept me from depression. And your child can too. Just keep doing things with her to make you both happy. He is the loser in all of that. He misses out on all the fun. And it just proves he wants no fun. If you don't see any hope with the spouse, why delay the inevitable?

If you still have a belief in God, attend another church and you WILL get peace there during that hour. You will be able to think and slowly over many months make a plan for your life. The counselor could be the pastor and that would mean NO COST to you. They are trained to be counselors. They will let you vent and search for the right answer for you and your child.

When a couple doesn't respect each other's choices in life I see no hope in the relationship. He continues to dislike your choice of leaving Mormonism. That won't change. Your family is all Mormon so you can't talk to them. You need to make new friends, talk with them, and sort this out over time. I wish you the best. And remember YOUR happiness is just as important as his. YOU can not go thru a marriage always making him happy while he does nothing for you. That is no marriage.

Oh, my dear, I'm so sorry this is happening to you. I just went through this in November. I am not a Mormon, although I took the discussions in the 80's and they freaked me out, so no go for me.

With my husband, it wasn't games, but alcohol. He was drinking a fifth a night, and I'm not kidding. I tried talking to him and it was like talking to a wall. His alcoholism lead to overdrafts at the bank, and me barely making it to work, because alcohol took precidence over gasoline. I finally got fed up with him when he drank almost a whole (80%) 1.75 liter of bourbon in one night, came to bed drunk at 5:00 in the morning, and couldn't get my son on the bus, my neighbor was kind enough to do it. Then next day, he was so hung over, he couldn't get up to get my son on the bus. He drove my son to school in the nieghbors car. The next day, I came home and he had finished off the 1.75 liter, drank a partial bottle of Nyquil and took sleeping pills. I couldn't get him up. I hit him, trying to get him up, I threatened him. He roused himself enough to promise me he'd go to AA, or another program, He passed out again. I threatened him I'd cut off his hair (it was very long), I finally cut off his hair. The next day, he told me he slept really well and didn't remember a thing that happened. I told him I'd fix his hair when I got home, and he was shocked I cut it off. He didn't remember promising to go to AA or anything else. He felt he couldn't trust me and left the next day. Yes, he's narcisistic.

Quite frankly, my son and I have been better off without him. My husband moved in with a friend, the friend does not have money for alcohol (did I mention he hadn't worked for 5 years, and just watched TV and drank?), so he's been mostly dry since he left. I fully expect him to relapse. He has diabetes, heart problems, high blood pressure and arthritis. I fully expect him to die in a year or so.

What I think you need to think about it will you be better off with him or without him (the old Dear Abby question). Your daughter can feel the stress in your house, I'm sure, my son sure did. He's doing much better since my husband left.

Sorry to highjack the thread, but I wanted you to know I know what you're going through and I will be happy to listen if you need an ear (or or an e-mail)

Have the funeral and start over, he probablly won't change no matter what hoops you jump through.

Your husband is behaving like a single person when he's a married person and a father. It sounds like he was too immature to get married in the first place. It doesn't sound like you'd be missing much if you separated or divorced.

I just feel bad for your situation, and I hope you can find a solution that works for you.

When I woke up this morning he was paying but quickly turned it off when he saw me and has not played much today. He is being pretty nice to me and I think last nights arguments startled him a bit. Hopefully this change in behavior isn't temporary. As far as seeking help with a doctor. I have been on medication for depression and spent a ton of money. Nothing worked and it was a waste of time and money. It actually made me feel worse. I wish I had the money for counceling but my insurance doesn't pay for mental health unfortunately. Thanks for all the advice. I appreciate it!

Maybe he just needed a little bit of a wake-up call.

Sounds like things might change for the better. Maybe your husband realizes he is not holding up his end of the bargain.

Find what works for you health wise. If medication doesn't work, find what does. The important thing is to take care of yourself: diet, exercise. I find a positive mental attitude works best for me.

My best to you. Life can be very hard! Hopefully you can find the joy and the fun and the laughter.

What horrifies me the most about this thread is the idea that ANYone would completely ignore their kid in favor of stuff they'd rather do. He might as well be on heroin for all the attention and love he's giving his own daughter.

If I was in that marriage, I'd focus on how I didn't sign up to be a married single mom. That is actually my worst nightmare -- to have to do it all by myself because the loser I'm married to refuses to lift a finger to carry his own weight in the family.

Frankly, it would be easier on you and better for your daughter if you were simply a single single mom. If that's what he wants, he's totally headed in the right direction. I'd say try for counseling, but it really sounds like neither of you wanted to be married to each other in the first place. Better to split up now than drag your daughter through another 12 years of misery living with parents who can't stand each other and a daddy who completely ignores her. I know exactly how that feels.

For your daughter's sake, either get his commitment to fix what's broken in your marriage (sounds like everything), or split up. As we say down South, either cut bait or go fishin', but don't just stand there.

I don't know if it's just me, but it seems all too easy for this kind of thing to happen with Mormon boys. They get married too young and don't have the maturity to deal with life, so they go back to their comfort zone of TV or video games. They grew up with their mom taking care of them and all the other kids while they played games, so it's easy to fall back into the same habit and expect the wife to take over their mom's role. Mormonism encourages a passive-aggressive way of dealing with problems, so any time there is an issue, they withdraw emotionally from the relationship to avoid conflict. And of course, it's all justified by saying that it's the woman's role to take care of the kids. All the man has to do is provide a paycheck, and he can feel that he is meeting his obligations, even if he doesn't acknowledge his kids beyond telling them to get out of the way so he can see the TV.
Mormonism - it's all about families.

I don't think I was as extreme as this guy, but I fell into some of these same patterns. That is why I can say with so much confidence that attacking the gaming itself will only cause problems.

I have largely matured out of this. Video games is still an issue for me - I still play them more than I should sometimes. However, I have for the most part "grown up" a little and engaged fully with my wife and children. For example I do a LOT of housework and a LOT of homework.

The problem is all the other things he's not doing. Like actually having a conversation with his wife to work out their issues. Or helping with housework. Or spending time playing with his daughter, helping her with homework, reading stories to her, or just talking to her.
I agree that arguing about playing video games probably won't help. To be honest, I don't know what would help. Nothing I did seemed to make my ex-husband grow up and be a dad, except 1) getting divorced, and 2) time.
Is there anything your wife could have said or done to help you mature faster?

Right and my problem was all those other things I wasn't doing too - same situation - a lot of the same motivations too. (Also I'm being "divorce agnostic" on this thread - I'm neither advocating divorce nor recommended against it - where the OP has stated her plan for now is to stay married, I'm trying to give any useful info within that context.)

Here's a specific example:

There were often times when I would stay up very late playing video games - maybe 3 am. I would be tired the next day but could still function. My wife would be furious and nag me to come to bed throughout the night. Sometimes she would come sit behind me and glare at me until I would come to bed. Frankly she was right - I shouldn't have wasted that time - it was addiction / compulsion (I hesitate to use addiction - it has multiple meaning in difference context). However, her sitting there and forcing me to go to bed was the worst possible thing she could have done - it just built anger and resentment for both of us. She should have not nagged me to come to bed (and she has since learned to stop doing so). The next day or two she could have pointed out how my staying up was impacting my contribution to the home if done in a reasonable way.

Eventually my wife figured out that policing my late night gaming wasn't a good approach and she quit doing it. I even pulled a couple all-nighters at first. She didn't even get pissed about it - should razzed me a little. Guess what - I don't stay up late playing video games hardly ever anymore - it is very rare. The fact that she quit policing it and allowed me to be a grown up with grown up consequences mad all the difference. A lot of why I was doing was simply in rebellion that she did not own my time.

A lot of what I think could help was in my first post. Focus on inviting/requesting me to be more involved with the family and our relationship. Allowing me to say myself how I would like to / feel like I should be more involved.

Perhaps a little personal and doesn't apply, but I don't know how to answer this. For me a lot of the hurt in our marriage has been in the area of sex and me having a higher sex drive. It's a delicate thing because I don't know how to deal that I don't want to "force feed" her sex. However, I do know that any time (and this is still an issue but much less than it used to be) we would draw close her lack of interest in sex felt like a dagger in my heart.

So I've done a lot of keeping my emotional distance simply because being emotionally close is very painful for me - the closer I am the more amorous I feel towards my wife and her resentment of my feeling amorous stings like hell. So frankly, I've learned to separate emotional closeness to my wife with being involved with my children and household. The easier, quicker path would have been for us to find a better solution to our sexual relationship. There is probably a reason he is pulling back and anything that can be done to minimize that will help immensely (it may be the weight of dealing with a chronically depressed spouse for example.)

I think if my wife and I had had some really good ongoing discussions about what we were both going to put into our marriage and relationship it could have been huge. It would have needed to have nothing to do with video games. It would have had to go something like this.

My wife would have needed to set up time alone with child care. It would have been said before hand that she wanted to spend some time talking. Maybe getting away for a night starting out with some good sex. Then maybe a conversation along these lines.

Wife: I recognize our relationship isn't working very well. I'm not here to blame you but I really want to see if we can make it any better. I don't even think we are in love any more but we are good friends at times. We have a daughter together that we need to raise. I want to figure out how to be better friends. I want to do whatever I can to make our marriage work. Our marriage will probably never be perfect but I'm committed to it for now for our daughter and so I want to make the best of it. I feel like there is nowhere to go but up and if I can make it go up a little I want to do whatever I can to make that happen. Are you OK with working on that?

Wife: I'm not here to tell you what you are doing wrong. I'm not here to attack you. I think we should do a couple specific things:

1) Identify a couple of things I can do to specifically do to make this relationship better for you. These have to be things that I can actually reasonably do without compromising myself. However, I want to do these things to show you this relationship is important to me and hopefully make you happier. My doing these things has nothing to do with what you do or don't do. I'm going to make my best effort to do these things for you independent of what you do (however they have to be things I am OK with doing.)

2) I want to deal directly with the video game issue. Here is how I propose we do this. I don't want to be your Mom - I am not going to be your video game police. I will try to never say anything about video games again. My concern is not with how much you play video games. However my concern is with what you are not doing. I'm not going to make demands or even tell you what that is going to be, but I want to define what you want your involvement to be. Let's figure out a definition from you of what you are willing to and want to put into our relationship. Let's figure out a definition of what you want to and our willing to put into being a father of our daughter. Let's figure out a definition of what your role is going to be of your contribution around the house.

2a) I am not going to pressure you into any of these things. If your answer is you don't want to have any involvement with any of these things, fine. I will tell you things that would be meaningful and helpful to me and would mean the most to me, but you tell me what you are willing to contribute. I want this to be your list of what you want to be doing and feel you should be doing. [It's possible that he won't want to put anything or almost nothing on the list. If it is, it's because he doesn't feel safe doing it - that anything he says will be held against him. He may be right. However I can guarantee that in there somewhere is a guy who wants to be standing up and being a man instead of a boy. Try to make it safe enough for him to express those desires.]

2b) I am also not going to hold you 100% to this list. I recognize you are a person and you will not do these things perfectly. I also hope that sometimes when I'm having a bad day you will go a little beyond the list and help me out. I also recognize you may occasionally spend too much time with your video game and fall down. I will not bring up video games but if I feel these things are not happening I will come to you and ask you to make an effort. Of course, if you over time don't do these things I will resent it and be hurt.

2b.1) If he is playing video games or otherwise you can kindly invite him to do something on the list. Say things on the list are talking to you daily, doing dishes, or reading to your daughter. In a non-threatening way go up to him and say something like - right now would be a great time to read to our daughter if you can get to a stopping place. Or even before the night begins - say I sure was hoping for help on the dishes tonight and to talk - can you plan time for those tonight? Or even, I'm having a rough day, will you be sure to plan to read with daughter, do the dishes, and spend some time with me tonight?

2c) Don't expect him to fulfill his list very well. At least now you have somewhat of a framework to discuss his involvement as a husband and father without attacking him on video games. There will be two gaps - i) the gap between the way it used to be and now it is now and the gap between how it is now and the list and ii) the gap between the way it is now and what is on the list. Try to focus on i) and ignore ii). Focus on any improvement and use that as hope for more.

2d) Try to find things to build on the good. Try to do those things that he says will help him even when you are depressed.

2e) I'm no expert on depression, but I believe to some degree you can force yourself to act and do even when you feel like hell.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2012 01:09PM by bc.

This all sounds like really good advice. I'd think of taking it for myself as well. You know, it takes two to tango and there's probably some things in his mind that you're not doing that he'd like to see you make some effort toward. So be prepared for reciprocation.

I think rather than "Here's where YOU'RE lacking, let's brainstorm ways YOU can improve," maybe you can look at that discussion as a two-way street. I think he'd be much more likely to change if he could air out his grievances and see you come a little way toward compromise as well. I'd start by both making a list about what you think is lacking in the relationship. What's he not getting, what are you not getting? Now make another list: what do each of you reasonably expect that you should be able to get? Now trade lists: what's on his that you could do that you're not and what's on yours that he could do that he's not? You choose what you'll start doing, he chooses what he'll start doing, each choose ONE thing and work on that, to start. That way, neither of you will be coming across as controlling the other. Identify the problems together, brainstorm solutions together, and then each take responsibility for their own choices about which solutions you'll employ.

Amen to that

What I learned to do is just go do things with my kids--when the ex was still around. I'd say, "We are going _________" and tell him if he wanted to go along, he could meet us. I don't think there was ever a time he didn't show up UNTIL he left. His "gaming" was the thrill of the chase of finding the next man to have sex with.

He eventually left (on the advice of an LDS therapist)--and he spent all his time pursuing his new life and he had the right to see the kids at any time. He didn't. Then they graduated from high school and my old boyfriend came back into the picture (and he actually had a good partner at the time)--and NOW his kids are EVERYTHING to him and he sees what he missed out on. Just last summer he was sobbing over "how could he have done that?" He is good to the kids now--and they have good relationships--but it is interesting that all of us have moved on and he is living in the house he left US in and he is ALONE and very lonely. He just counts the days until I go home for a week or 2.

I've seen this happen many times though--my dad did it, my uncles did it--and maybe he is just repeating a pattern--it is just my dad's generation was WORKING most of that time. My dad taught school and was a farmer on top of that. When he was home, he was asleep on the couch in front of the TV. My aunts and my mother all complained about it.

Anyway--get a life for yourself. He has to WANT TO CHANGE things. You are the only one who can change your circumstances. Go out and have a life--even if you stay there. Put your energy into your child and you.

You're welcome. I'm glad I could listen.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. And I hope it makes you feel better.

turnonthelights, sounds like you're in a rough spot and I feel for you. There have been widly helpful and wildly ridiculous suggestions so far on this post, so I hope you can sort through what makes sense for you.

You should consider separating. Formally. You need to see an attorney and draft up a detailed Separation Agreement. Don't you just leave or don't just kick him out. Go through all the child support calculations, visitation issues, etc. There are key legal reasons for both of you go through this. You'll obviously have more responsibility to raise your daughter and will need more financial support from him.

It sucks, I know. You're in a difficult situation, but the beauty about this life is that you get to start over once in awhile. It's not depressing, it's comforting. 50% of marriages fail, probably 25% are shitty, and 25% are good. To have a good marriage goes against the odds.

Protect yourself, legally and otherwise. Take some time off from your dead-beat husband and an unhealthy relationship. Allow him the legally-mandated visitation time, and the two of you can pursue the lives you desire - you away from him and him with his video games. Your daughter will survive (and thrive) especially if you're happy. Perhaps there's someone else out there for you. Even an ogre like Shrek found a companion.

Just as you discovered that the church is bogus, you can now realize that "marriage" isn't the answer for everything. Take some time, clear your head, figure out how you can live a genuine life. Don't waste another minute of your precious life.

>>50% of marriages fail, probably 25% are shitty, and 25% are good.


Probably 99% of marriages are good some of the time and shitty some of the time.