Soon my brother will be returning from his mission abroad. He has seen much "success" among the native islanders there. He's been a zone leader for a long part of his mission and each time we speak or email he seems fully entrenched, completely brainwashed by TSCC. My question is:

Does he have much of a chance of ever seeing through the lies?

I did my 2 years in Brazil, was successful by the standards of my mission but I had a complete arsehole of an MP that made me start doubting some things, mainly leadership oriented things. I had a great comp who really made me think with some of the things he would bring up about fringe doctrines and their truthfulness/relevance/memorial hole. All this led me to have somewhat jaded, definitely bitter, view of the missionary program. Not enough money, food, etc. Crappy leadership who's idea of being inspirational involved excessive amounts of guilting, etc. We all know the drill.

His mission seems to have been very different, mostly positive, good MP, good leadership, plenty of success as well. Without the negatives which led me to doubt and question, what chance does he have of ever opening his metaphorical eyes?

He'll be off to the Y this fall, I'm holding out hope that things wont be so rosy and perfect there. He's highly intelligent, scientific, I'm confident he can (or at least could before his mission) sniff out hypocrisy. He's not the type to rush out and get married quick and young, he's got that going for him (I got married less than a year after coming home and to a girl I knew for a grand total of 3 months before tying the knot!!)

Anyways, any experiences any of you have had with similar 'pillars of faith' falling into apostasy would be inspirational to me.

Thanks!!

He sounds typical of those that find that Mormonism as their culture,heritage, religion, "tribe" works well for him, There is no crystal ball to see into the future but it may be something that works for him for his entire life. That seems to be true for generations of Mormons.

One very important thing I learned is that my choices and my concerns about Mormonism are mine alone. I have tried to explain myself to some other members, but, most often, they are not interested. That's fine with me.

Other people's choice of religion and life choices are really none of my business. I don't want people trying to change my mind about my core beliefs either.

There are dozens of examples of "pillars of faith" that have fallen into apostasy that post on this board.

I am convinced this statement says it best: "When the student is ready the teacher appears." (Paraphrased from Buddhism.)

A change in belief system needs to come from within the person because of concerns, a need, questions, etc. It can't be forced on someone.

Another important thing to remember is that we are not going to agree with everyone--they are not going to agree with us.
In my view, I leave religion alone for the most part. Same for politics. Those are highly personal, emotionally driven core beliefs that are not up for discussion and it's very often very bad manners to bother people about them.

In other words, respect and honor everyone's right to their beliefs, religion, core philosophy and stop trying to change people- you can't do it anyhow! :-)

Just because someone doesn't like Mormonism doesn't mean anyone else will dislike it too. Just because I changed my mind doesn't mean any of my Mormon believing relatives including my husband of nearly 50 years will change his mine. Nope. Not going to happen. So in my case, I leave it alone. Shut up about it! My loved ones are not stupid, duped, brainwashed, or some kind of dumb idiots just because they are Mormons and I know they don't appreciate being described in that manner, that is if they pay any attention to that kind of denigration in the first place. Most likely --- not. It's of no value to denigrate others because of their views.

Life is short. Live it in as much happiness and joy as possible. My view is that relationships are the important part of our existence: pleasant ones, harmonious ones,kind ones, respectful ones.... etc. Personally, who cares what someone's religion is?
It is not part of my relationship with them! Never. And I like it that way.

Will your brother change his mind about religion at some point? Might. Might not. In the case of my brother, I don't care.:-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2012 10:47PM by SusieQ#1.

I was a zone leader for 14 months, was totally into my mission, was one of the top baptizer's, etc.

Here I am.

There is always hope. I was very brainwashed as a TBM, and I found my way out. Your brother may do the same.

Typically, missions are the first time that most young men start to see the cracks in the Mormon delusion. In fact, recently returned RMs are one of the groups that defects from the church at the highest rates. Just be ready to talk with him if you get the chance.

You might really be inspired by the books that have been written by former missionaries. Check out Raptor Jesus' book "The Passion of Raptor Jesus" (Germany) and Runtu's book about his mission, "Heaven up Here" (Bolivia).

There is another one being written that I have helped with that is an absolute blockbuster. And many more coming.

Do not give up hope. Truth is on your side and so is time. All the little experiences he is having, all the contradictions and convoluted apologist explanations are going up on the shelf.

Can you accept your brother as he is? Can your heart be open to who he is if he never changes? This is the real question for you. Are you waiting for him to change so you can be comfortable?

Some people tell themselves they cannot be happy until something happens...or until something stops happening. This is giving control to other people, or your environment, or your boss.

Honoring your path is number one. Honoring the paths of others, even though they see things differently, is growth edge number two.

At least your brother has someone close to him to demonstrate that a person can become a full-blown apostate and not be a hater, a criminal, a drunk, or employed by the devil. You show him you are still the good person you always have been. And continue to love him as is.

That's all you can really do.

Best

Anagrammy

Is there any place I can buy the physical copy of Raptor Jesus' book? I can only find the electronic editions.

To add to anagrammy's list, another great mission book is 2 by Evan Lord, it's not mentioned much here, but it is an incredible read that draws you in and forces the question about the truth of the church. I highly recommend it! And no, I am not Evan Lord, but I am a friend of his!

On a side note, now knowing where RJ went on his mission he may have known Evan, because he went to Germany as well!

lord.raptor.isgod@gmail.com

I will try to get that on Amazon and add it to my list of recommended reading.

Thanks

Ana

PS. Ran into another one by Eddie Scott. Anyone heard of him?

http://www.amazon.com/Chosen-Open-Confessions-Mormon-Priest/dp/B005GQHLS2/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_1



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2012 01:43AM by anagrammy.

Remember that your brother will only speak positive about the mission. We all know that is what he is told to do. He may have a lot of cracks in his believes that he has hidden. Time will tell.

The more literally you take the gospel, the more paradoxes you collide with.

I've noticed that social mormons who know and care little about "doctrine", who cut themselves some slack and who aren't hung up on "every jot and tittle", who are flexible to the point of shrugging things off, who allow themselves some indulgences, seem to have greater church survivability.

Rigid members, I think even mormons would admit, are more likely to crack.

thanks for the encouagement. Runtu's and rapto jesus's books are on my to read list! I was just struck by how into it he really is after talking to him on the phone for mother's daty

Take consolation in a couple of things:

40% of all missionaries end up out of the church.

One of the most successful techniques for getting Mormons out of the church is to beg them to "help me! I would love to believe it, but I am having problems with a few issues. Can you help me?"

Many of us researched our way out by trying to defend the church. Including me.

Thanks for the statistic. When I was on my mission I was told that most mission presidents assistants apostatize. They were saying like 70 to 80%. I could not believe it.

Now, I wonder if being that close to the MP just lets you see how uninspired and competitive the whole thing is.

I love the "help me" approach.