Has the church ever offically stated gays are born that way? I seem to remember something recently, like a new website that showed up, where the church states gays are born that way.

Does anyone know the answer to this? If so, can you provide a link? Thanks.

"There is a falsehood that some are born with an attraction to their own kind, with nothing they can do about it. They are just “that way” and can only yield to those desires. That is a malicious and destructive lie. While it is a convincing idea to some, it is of the devil. No one is locked into that kind of life. From our premortal life we were directed into a physical body. There is no mismatching of bodies and spirits. Boys are to become men—masculine, manly men—ultimately to become husbands and fathers. No one is predestined to a perverted use of these powers."

Boyd K Packer, For Young Men Only



Pretty hard for LDS Inc to walk that one back...

I wonder what BKP thinks about the former patriarch of the church, Joseph Fielding Smith. I'm not talking about the former prophet, but his relative (cousin I think) that had a gay lover outside of his marriage. The church released him from his calling as church patriarch and shipped him off to Hawaii or some place like that. That position in the church has vanished. There are now only stake patriarchs.

deco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "There is a falsehood that some are born with an
> attraction to their own kind, with nothing they
> can do about it. They are just “that way” and
> can only yield to those desires. That is a
> malicious and destructive lie. While it is a
> convincing idea to some, it is of the devil. No
> one is locked into that kind of life. From our
> premortal life we were directed into a physical
> body. There is no mismatching of bodies and
> spirits. Boys are to become men—masculine, manly
> men—ultimately to become husbands and fathers.
> No one is predestined to a perverted use of these
> powers."
>
> Boyd K Packer, For Young Men Only
>
>
>
> Pretty hard for LDS Inc to walk that one back...

This quote, right here, is what led to many years of misery and arrested my sexual development.

Sorry Boyd. After years of struggling and "praying it away"; yelling at god for making my own sex so damned attractive, I testify to you that I was born this way.

Now the church says it's okay to BE gay, you just can't ACT gay. Spend my life as a celibate subclass cult member? OR as an out, atheist apostate who thinks for himself?

For me, the choice was clear and I've not regretted it since. I hope other gay mormons will realize they're being lied to, leave the cult, live as authentically as they can and join me in saying:

F^#k you, Boyd!

This is a 40 year old talk. They have softened their tone quite a bit since then.

Softened only in appearance. But still just as harsh

They still preach that homosexuality is some sort of disease. Only now you are forced to simply live with it (alone) until you can be "cured" of you deformity by the atonement when you die.

It's even a little more sinister I would argue, because some people are lulled into this idea that the LDS church is coming around.

axeldc Wrote:
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> This is a 40 year old talk. They have softened
> their tone quite a bit since then.

It is also from one of the lords anointed, allegedly forwarding the word of god himself.

Someday the idea that living prophets and the power of discernment is a far greater liability than asset.

He was speaking as a man. (Yeah, right.)

I've long wondered if Boyd just heard a term regarding fudge too many times when he was a young man and this is what fueled his rampage. I avow that I have no idea if that term was in usage when Boyd was young and the earth had just cooled.

From a 2006 interview with Dallin Oaks as posted on LDS Newsroom (http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/interview-oaks-wickman-same-gender-attraction) we learn that the LDS position is that homosexuality is:

a lifestyle
not normal
a behavior
a feeling (and within such feelings it's merely an inclination or susceptibility to those feelings)
controllable
an affliction


"This is much bigger than just a question of whether or not society should be more tolerant of the homosexual lifestyle. Over past years we have seen unrelenting pressure from advocates of that lifestyle to accept as normal what is not normal, and to characterize those who disagree as narrow-minded, bigoted and unreasonable."

"I think it’s important for you to understand that homosexuality, which you’ve spoken of, is not a noun that describes a condition. It’s an adjective that describes feelings or behavior."

"Yes, homosexual feelings are controllable. Perhaps there is an inclination or susceptibility to such feelings that is a reality for some and not a reality for others. But out of such susceptibilities come feelings, and feelings are controllable."

"[W]e do not accept the fact that conditions that prevent people from attaining their eternal destiny were born into them without any ability to control."

"[T]hat’s not to say it’s not appropriate for somebody with that affliction to seek appropriate clinical help..." (Lance Wickma, member of the 70 who was being interviewed with Oaks) [It is homosexuality that is being ascribed to as an "affliction."]



To show Oaks' love and compassion on the issue, when he was asked this question, "At what point does showing that love cross the line into inadvertently endorsing behavior? If the son says, ‘Well, if you love me, can I bring my partner to our home to visit? Can we come for holidays?’ How do you balance that against, for example, concern for other children in the home?’" answered this way:

"I can also imagine some circumstances in which it might be possible to say, ‘Yes, come, but don’t expect to stay overnight. Don’t expect to be a lengthy house guest. Don’t expect us to take you out and introduce you to our friends, or to deal with you in a public situation that would imply our approval of your 'partnership.'"

The current stance is that some are born homosexual but that it is just another trial meant to fuck with you and that everyone will be forced into heterosexuality in the after life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2014 03:21PM by nonsequiter.

Actually, in Mormon Doctrine (stupid as it is) almost everyone in the afterlife will be eunuchs/asexual and without sexual organs in/on their "perfect bodies".

Doesn't THAT sound like heaven?!

Stupid Cult.

Oh yeah, I forgot, That's true.

Unless you happen to be in the Celestial Kingdom. Then it is forced heterosexuality for you.

Yeah, but it wasn't actually Super Bruce. I couldn't find anything in Mormon Doctrine about that. It comes from JFS, which should come as no surprise:

Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, Vol. 4, p. 66-67
"Is not the sectarian world justified in their doctrine generally proclaimed, that after the resurrection there will be neither male or female sex? It is a logical conclusion for them to reach and apparently is in full harmony with what the Lord has revealed regarding the kingdoms into which evidently the vast majority of mankind is likely to go."

Call it nitpicking if you will, but I think this is the actual source reference.

Yes, there has been a softening of language by Cult leaders regarding what they like to call "Same Sex Attraction."

It is difficult to find official statements on anything these days, particularly issues dealing with gays, as TSCC doctrine is always a "moving target."

Even Dallin Oaks will admit that there seems to be considerable evidence that gays are born gay but other authorities are not so sure.

Church doctrine and policy has all the stability of a trailer park in the middle of a tornado.

The http://mormonsandgays.com website that came out at the end of 2012 only says that they do not know the cause of homosexuality.

In the light blue box at the top of the page, it says: Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them.

I was always taught being gay is a choice. Funny how everything changes within the church.

cocoaberry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The http://mormonsandgays.com website that came
> out at the end of 2012 only says that they do not
> know the cause of homosexuality.

They don't even know the cause of Mormonism.

"Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them." That is like saying heterosexuals respond to unchosen arousals by having sex... with other heteros.

We are all born "that" way - the way we are, whatever it is. They believe something changes because they say it can, and will. No science, no studies, stupid thoughts, no doubt.

Where exactly on their gay mormon webpage does it say this? I need to give my family member an exact URL (church sponsored) of the church stating gay people are born that way. All I'm finding is glossed over "you're going to hell, but we'll pretend to love you anyway" crap.

I think they will handle this topic the way they have with evolution (and other topics).

There will be "quotes" and scriptures to support any view. The believer can pick any quote that agrees with them and decide the other guy was "speaking as a man."

Over time, public opinion shapes the status quo and the old views slowly go down the memory hole.

You'd think they could get "official doctrine" for things like evolution and homosexuality, but no. They can't come out and admit their previous views were full of crap. They can't come out and say science (as usual) is the better path to the facts. So, they just sort of let the topic stew and the members honestly think the stance is whatever they personally think about the topic.

That's religion's general way of modernizing their views: obfuscation, contradiction, and general bullsh!tery. In a hundred years they will laugh off their old views like they were never part of the problem.

No, and whatever the church "states", most believe it is a "problem" that can be cured or ignored. The church doesn't even know why "straight" people are born crooked... or not "perfectly" straight.