I stayed in a marriage to a tbm for my kids. During that time he was lazy when it came to working--didn't feel a strong desire to provide. Instead, he would go out with missionaries or do other church service for hours on end. He would pay our tithing even though we were out of food or he wouldn't tell me and write out a huge tithing check. If I questioned him on it, he would say that I lacked faith. He was always self-employed because he couldn't keep a regular job. He got us into huge debt and was always looking for ways to get rich quick. I went back to school during this time to get a degree and get a decent job that would bring in money--which I did. After the kids were grown I left him--tired of him telling me I didn't have the spirit with me or that I wasn't righteous enough. Now he is collecting alimony from me--lying about his income (being self-employed he can hide it.) The Bishop knows that he collects alimony but doesn't want to get involved. I am just glad to be rid of him and glad to have my time back that I wasted in church for over 30 years. Does anyone else know of men like him who collect alimony and are in good church standing? He doesn't have to support anyone else --just himself. I think it's crazy!!!

How long will the alimony last, Happyfeet? At least you know that you'll be finished with it at a certain point in time.

Still waiting for final divorce but he keeps stalling--canceling the hearing. The worst part to me is that everyone automatically assumes I was the one wrong because I stopped going to church.

Why do you need to pay him alimony if you're not divorced yet?

Why are you paying Alimony? It's not your fault he CHOSE not to work much.

My two cents. What does your lawyer say about this? Maybe you need a better attorney?

Unfortunately, the system rewards the person who has the least income/resources -- regardless of ether it's due to their laziness or other faults. A good buddy of mine is going through this right now because his soon-to-be ex-wife played for years while he worked hard, and now the split will be far more favourable to her.

There are thousands of women and men in this situation -- and the lawyers will be more than happy to go after the money of the person with the higher income/more assets.

What a deadbeat and what a weak-kneed bish.

The reason alimony is granted is because he helped support you in your career endeavors. Imagine a women who didn't pursue an education so that she could raise the kids and be a stay at home mother and wife while she supported her husband through many years of schooling and his dream career just to have him leave her. She would have sacrificed all that she could've financially been just to be left with nothing which isn't right. While that doesn't sound like the case in your relationship, the court system and church don't know what really happened or care. Would you expect that woman who was ditched by her husband to have a poor standing in the church because of that. Of course not. So why would it be different when the gender roles are reversed?

Not always. I know someone who is paying a lifetime alimony to a wife who left him even though he compeleted his education prior to the marriage and she also worked most of the marriage. She then retired early and is living with her lover. Don't expect logic or justice in Divorce Court. Need and ability to pay trump justice. The judge can do pretty much what he wants.

June makes a good point. A better point is the simple fact that divorce happens in around 50% of marriages, so it seems like the state is perfectly willing to recognize that promising to love someone "forever" is a contract that can be--and is-- terminated frequently.

The problem is that the presumption that the lesser-earning spouse is deserving of compensation is a holdover from the assumption that this was a spouse who was supporting the higher earning partner, perhaps to stay at home with babies or because they couldn't afford to both go to school.

There is no reason that each case shouldn't be judged on its own merits, rather than just take the lower-earning spouse and grant them alimony. The courts could very easily ask what the spouse did to support the higher-earning partner. Those who put the other one through school would be entitled to equal contribution of tuition (a percentage) plus alimony while getting an education which would equip them to contribute equally to the support of the children.

I don't see why anyone should get alimony for playing video games while their partner worked or for spending years "looking for work" or "self-employed."

Taking care of children should be compensated at the same rate that would have been paid to a professional sitter or child care center.

It's just numbers - any confusion is due to gender bias.


Kathleen Waters

I would agree if he had stayed at home to take care of the kids, but he didn't. Our kids were in school all day! BTW--he got his teaching degree,too--he could have had a job in education. The worst part, to me, was that he always told me I wasn't good enough--didn't try hard enough in the church. I was young women's president and held several stake callings but he supposedly held the priesthood and didn't feel any moral obligation to help support the family.

Men who do not rise in the priesthood often exhibit tendencies towards learned helplessness.

Which is totally reasonable when you consider the Mormon teaching that the thinking is done for you by other people.

So why not let the earning be done for you by other people as well?


Kathleen Waters

I hear ya, Happyfeet. My opinion is a person who mooches off another person (be it male or female) should be ashamed. I'm sorry you have to go through this. It's just wrong.

My friend is married to a guy like your soon-to-be-ex. His patriarchal blessing assured him that God would always provide. I guess since God was going to provide, he figured he didn't have to. He spent years falling for every crackpot get-rich and MLM schemes, quitting perfectly good jobs because he wanted to start (and fail) at his own businesses, etc.

Meanwhile, she and the kids did without. Many birthdays and Christmases were provided by her never-Mormon parents. He complained that his in-laws didn't like him (gee, wonder why?).

She went back to school and has been supporting him for the last ten or so years. He is now "retired" but she is still working as they have no retirement savings.

My wife (now ex-wife) lives in a Mormon fairy land. Every problem can be solved by ever more intense Mormon hyperactivity. Because Mormonism is founded upon works, their only solution to any problem is more Mormonism. Even when a bishop tried to appeal to her to "respect agency" (other's choices), her response was that the bishop is "stupid" without any idea of what goes on in a ward.

Her problem was never that the Church wants people to "be active" or "get involved." But that the actions they advocate never address the issues required to resolve a problem. The religion becomes a way to avoid solutions to the problem.

When I get home I may post an email I sent to my wife years ago. She was reading the King Follet Discourse continually. In the meantime our business was neglected with no product to sell. But my wife was sure that if she read King Follet herself and to all our employees that our business would improve. I'll try to remember to remove most of the swearing.

I only remained in the Church as long as I did to limit the Church's influence on my children. Without me preaching some form of "spiritual restraint" or "temporal accountability" I feared for their care.

My wife believes that any amount of coercion or physical torment
is justified if it keeps your family "together" (or in other words, "active").

In closing, I confess that I also left her because when (if?) our children ever left home my wife's wrath would be totally focused on making me "repent."

she drummed a lesson into my dear little head very early in life:
Never depend on somebody else to take care of you. Be able to stand on your own two feet from the minute you step out of home into your "own" life.

She was already a registered nurse when she met my father, so she was self-sufficient. After she was married, she stopped working when she got pregnant with me. Then she felt obliged to stay at home until I was in school - pure hell for both of us, as she did not like staying at home with a little kid, and I didn't like being with her. She was a total spoilsport and was always getting in the way when my creative little brain came up with a fun idea.

But when my father died of a hereditary disease when I was a teenager (as she knew he would - she knew he had this disease when they were married. They met because he was a patient in her ward in the Army during WWII) we did not have to depend on Social Security or VA benefits, although we had them. She made good money and supported both me and my widowed grandmother.

Even though she was a difficult person to live with, she was more than capable of stepping up to the plate when Dad died.

I think one of the things that has made my second marriage successful was knowing that if it didn't work out, I always had the means to walk out the door and keep going. I had a good job and was fully able to support myself.

A condition of being Temple worthy is to be sorted out and decent in family situations. Lying about his income is also a barrier to being Temple worthy. The bishop is not acting in accordance with doctrine here. You could go over his head to the SP. Always worked for me but ''my'' SP was a great guy. Trouble is with you having left, they may just disregard you.

It is horrid when such hypocrisy is so obvious in members. I'm sorry.

Hi Happy feet! I was married to a similar TBM husband - It is hard to believe that a church that promotes self reliance & hard work could ever produce such a person as my ex (TBM). I feel for you as I remember many of the same experiences...Paying tithing on the income he was 'hoping' to attain. (when he was unemployed, yet again) Taking whatever money we did have and blowing it on MLM scams (many). The children had no shoes but the church got their check, etc. He had 13 jobs in the first 8 years of marriage. It was ALWAYS my fault when the job did not work out or appear or the MLM plan did not pan out and make him a millionaire - Most often it was my lack of 'faith' /I did not support him etc. When I applied for food stamps when he lost yet another job: that showed I did not have faith enough so that great job with benefits was going to be withheld till I improved and read more scriptures. Year after year I was convinced it was all my fault that he could not find that 'one perfect job' that HF had in mind for him. He was to 'be one of nature's nobleman' quoted from his PB. He even went back to pester the patriarch (he was quite feeble) and his wife, who transcribed all the blessings said that it was just a phrase he used and many of his friends had that same wording in their own PB's. He spent hours doing church lessons and going out with the missionaries. Hours going to the temple & when he was asked to join the High priest group he refused because that meant he was old (he was 50+) and still wanted to hang out with the elders. I knew he had a real problem but his parents just said " lets pray about it" and his mother enabled him all the time and he would put all his failures on me 'the convert'! I spent all the money, I did not feast on the scriptures,blah blah blah--- actually I did and would challenge him (which he did not like) about his interpretations of scriptures. Any way- I tried to make it until ALL the kids were grown but his behavior was becoming quite violent with him screaming at me and chasing me down the hall and many times locking me out of our apt. I left him with the kids for a much needed break to see my family and he filed for divorce. You were good to get a good job and I really feel for you because if a judge could see what he put you through he would not give this useless man a dime. Oh yes and my ex has been married again and divorce again and was always temple worthy!! He saw our sons be married and I did not.(I left the church during our divorce) He did not contribute any money towards the sons' missions or cars or college But I did with my little teacher aide job. Always the bishops and SP would side with my ex and tell me to try harder.

I love my wife I lot. I love her even more when I hear crazy ass stories like this. Your husband was a total asshole.

Thanks for giving me a good reason to feel grateful for my spouse.

What a loser. I hope he gets shingles on his little factory.

I was thinking of posting about my situation which is also along the lines of being the ex of a tbm. My ex is on marriage # 4
and has been a deadbeat dad to his child from marriage #1 and #2
(mine). He made a living as a predatory lender and went on disability after our divorce and did not pay alimony or child support as he was supposed to. With wives #3 and #4 he worked on the side but all monies were in the name of the wife. I went to a lawyer who told me I can't get support from a disabled person. My question involves my daughter who is severely disabled and lives with me. She is 39. She adores her father because she grew up with him. She sees him once in awhile. She last saw him in March or early April. I have stage 4 cancer and am in remission but I know eventually I will need to have my daughter go to a group home and I am pretty sure he will not visit her. A few years ago she went in a group home temporarily during my recuperation from surgery and he promised me he would visit her and he never did. His word is no good. But he is a very active mormon, a high priest and was on the high council. He is always ranting about family first and has a pro family bumper sticker on his vehicle. He only listens to church authorities. I have wondered if I can talk to his bishop and/or stake president and have them talk to him about responsibilities toward his daughter. I have resigned from the church so I don't really want to talk to any mormons but I am very anxious about this.

Annabella and Joan99--thank you so much for sharing your stories. I also appreciate the input from others who have posted. It has been very heartbreaking for me and now without a church network-- I feel very alone. People thought we were the "perfect" LDS family and had no idea how much I suffered in silence. Only a few close friends knew how he belittled me behind closed doors and kept us in poverty. He never wanted the job I currently have (even though he is equally qualified) because he said he couldn't make enough money--he needed to make more. Now he is quite eager to get 60 percent of my pension. After I left him , I quickly stopped going to church. My life has taken a 360 degree turn and my tbm adult children have a hard time accepting my new life without the church. In addition, I was recently diagnosed with multiple sclerosis so it's just one more crazy thing I am trying to deal with. Anyhow, for anyone who has been through this--or a similar situation, I wish you the best, too. Thank you again for sharing your stories. I've been following this group for quite a while but finally got up the courage to share my story.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2014 03:44PM by happyfeet.