When Mormons chant their outrageous, rehearsed, thought-stopping comments, do you ever want to call their bluff? Personally, I have to ask myself if it's worth mixing it up with people who won't listen anyway - if it's worth the arguments and the insults when they realize they can't win. On the other hand, why do they get away with making patently false, outrageous claims because we let them? That seems wrong too. Here are some examples:


When someone says to you "we miss you at church" do you reply "but you live 5 minutes from me - if you miss me, how come you never call or come by?"

If the missionaries tell you they want to come over and give you a lesson because they need practice, do you say "I doubt that very much - this is a thinly veiled attempt to reactivate me, isn't it?"

When someone says "We've been praying about it and feel the Lord wants you to be the new nursery music leader" should we say "Oh puhleez - that's a throw away calling to reactivate people."

Or when they say "The increase in missionaries is really paying off with huge growth in church membership" do you ask for numbers?

When they claim that The Book of Mormon musical has led to dozens of baptisms of people wanting to know more about Mormonism do you ask them who exactly they know that was baptized after seeing that show?

How about when they say "People only leave the church because they are offended do you ever ask them "how many people have looked you in the eye and told you from their own mouths that they left because they were offended and who offended them?"

I'm sure there are a lot more examples of Mormons making outrageous claims and getting away with it. Shouldn't we say "prove it" or "really?" or would it be the classic wrestling with a pig situation? Because if Mormons were the National Enquirer, with some of the false statements they make, they'd get sued - they wouldn't get away with it like they do.

It's hard to say what one should or should not do... It might depend on the individual.

You could easily become fodder for "that angry exmo who wont admit they miss the gospel"

Then again a lot could be said for presentation. So if you do it with an air of honest inquiry it could lead them to think rather than an air of "we both know you're full of BS"

Personally I am becoming increasingly impatient and am leaning towards the latter in my mannerisms. I'm probably not a good example.

Still waiting for the sunday school and gospel doctrine teachers and others to point out the Lies printed in the Nauvoo Expositor.

Still waiting to hear what Tommy Monson has Prophesied.

Still waiting to hear what "greater works than I have done, you will do" from L-d$,inc... and I don't consider a shopping mall to be one.

But saying something makes us feel rude and they won't listen anyway.

It's a lose-lose I'm afraid.

So my conclusion is to do whatever helps the exmo recover.

Try not to worry about what the TBM is thinking because we can't change other people, only ourselves.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2014 07:02AM by Cheryl.

You are right. Arguing with a Mormon is as frustrating as pissing into the wind (not that ladies will be able to sympathize).

I do call their bluff sometimes.

I've managed to keep my address secret from all mormons so far, so the church doesn't have a clue where I live or what ward I'm in atm. But I've had mormons sneakily try and find out my address on multiple occasions, and whenever they do I say "Sorry, I don't want to give my address, since then you'll give it to the Stake President and then I'll have people turning up at my house unannounced all the time". That's one example where I do it.

A lot of the time you don't think of it in the heat of the moment, and it's only when you look back on the conversation when you realize you should have called them up on what they said.

Passive-aggressiveness is so common in mormonism that it's almost like they speak another language. Everything they do or say seems to have a hidden meaning behind it, so I agree we should try and call them out more.

QWE Wrote:
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> Passive-aggressiveness is so common in mormonism
> that it's almost like they speak another language.

I was thinking that it would be an excellent idea, until QWE reminded me of their passive-aggressiveness.

"I really miss you at church."

"Then why don't you ever visit me? We can meet at places other than church, you know."

"You hurt my feelings. I really mean that I miss you at church. I was just trying to say something nice. Why did you have to be so mean?"

Then you end up feeling like a real heel.

They're taught to rely on their feelings from birth. Because of that, they can be master emotional manipulators. That's one reason they end up convincing some people to be baptised, even though the person is feeling doubtful about what they're being taught. They can't bear to disappoint that nice Mormon.

The "we miss you at church" comment -- I would take that at face value. It's like missing a coworker (with whom you never socialized outside of work) when that person takes another job. It's the loss of a familiar, smiling face; someone that you could shoot the breeze with over the water cooler. It's an acknowledgment that the now-missing person was a kind, decent, friendly human being. Just not a close friend.

So in response I would just smile, or say "thank you," or acknowledge that you enjoyed working with that person on a particular project. Ask, "how are you, how is your family?" and then go on your way.

That is an interesting way to look at it.

I agree. That takes a lot of the sting out of it because that comment always irritated me but it does make more sense and become less annoying when you think of it as a "work friends" context. It wouldn't bother me that a friend from work didn't stop by and visit me at home or if they said they missed working with me if we bumped into each other at McDonalds. So I guess it shouldn't bug me when Mormons do it. Although when Mormons say it, I want to reply "I don't miss you guys at all." Like you would after working in a particularly competitive, catty office.

Absolutely. Every time. And I ask them to cite whatever BS they're throwing my way. Mormonism is 95% hearsay.

"But what about?," "Why is that?" "Where did you read that?" "Why is that?"

I always call their bluff.

Now all the Mormons in my life know better than to spew their bs within earshot of me.

Makes things much more peaceful!

That's a personal decision. There are a lot of variables that go into deciding what to say and do in each individual situation.

I've often promoted the non-verbal technique.
Listen, smile, wave goodbye, close the door is one.

I've tried talking, and questioning, etc. It just fuels more and more contact which I really wanted to stop.

The other is my Door Sign that I've posted many times. That's for a specific kind Pests that won't listen to "NO" - get off my property --I threaten to call the police (with my cell phone in my hand) and have them arrested for trespassing.

When I have had persistent , inappropriate, rude contact from LDS Folks, (missionaries, for instance) I use my Front Door Sign and watch them read it. It's priceless.

My Door Sign to keep the Mormons away.
Once they read it, it spreads through the Mormon Grape Vine like wild fire, which is what I counted on. :-) This will stop the request for "No Contact" which does not work well with the Mormons, or even Resignation that is not respected and contact is made.


NOTICE:

I am under no obligation to:
avoid all loud laughter,
lightmindedness,
evil speaking of the lords anointed
or any other impure or unholy practice

Enter at you own risk
Rachel, My New Name

(Big Smiley Face here!)

I put it on the inside of the window in my door then I watched the Mormons that came to my door read it! It was priceless. Only needed to use it once.

For those that have been to the temple, this statement is from The Law of the Gospel, one of the temple covenants. As the temple is so sacred it is not to be discussed, seeing this statement on a door can be quite a shock! And humorous to observe the reader.

Law of the Gospel: We are required to give unto you the Law of the Gospel as contained in the Holy Scriptures; to give unto you also a charge to avoid all lightmindedness, loud laughter, evil speaking of the Lord's anointed, the taking of the name of God in vain, and every other unholy and impure practice, and to cause you to receive these by covenant.

REST HERE:
http://www.lds4u.com/lesson5/templecovenants.htmof obnoxious, rude contact that are persistent.
Only used it once and it stopped all contact!

I always like to ask them about this:

"evil speaking of the Lord's anointed"


So,who is the "Lord's anointed?"

Aren't we 'anointed' when we get our endowments in the temple?

Yes

So we are never to speak evil of each other?
How can you say someone left because they were offended?
Do you know if they were offended?

So if you don't know if they were offended and you're saying that's why they left the church isn't that a false statement?

Aren't false statements a lie?
Isn't a lie 'evil speaking?'



Head explodes or a fake stiff smile appears followed by 'have a nice day'


The leaders are not the only ones anointed. The leaders are set apart by the laying on of hands, not anointing. They are prayed over with the 'laying on of hands' as they are set into position. Everyone is the Lord's Anointed! Just a picky little fact that gets ignored in the TSCC.

<<If the missionaries tell you they want to come over and give you a lesson because they need practice, do you say "I doubt that very much - this is a thinly veiled attempt to reactivate me, isn't it?">>

You mean that I am not the only person they have done this to?? Haha. Very good to know!

They actually teach you to do that as a good reactivation trick - helping people feel the spirit and all. It's not random, in fact, I think I was even taught that in the MTC. Not that it's in any of the manuals but it's one of those teaching tricks that pass from one missionary to the next.

I only want to call their bluff when the media copies it verbatim. You know all those newspapers and tv shows quoting the "one of the fastest growing" and "fifteen million members" and "no polygamy since 1890" lines straight from the press packages. It always makes me want to write them and tell them only a fraction of that number consider themselves members and a lot of plural wives lived well into the 1950s, but these days you have to register and log in to comment on most news websites, so I don't bother. Still, I wish everybody else would.

"Please explain how year after year a church can claim to be one of the fastest growing in the world and still only be a tiny fraction of 1% of the population."

Quite frequently when someone makes a statement that is patently untrue I answer with only two words.

"Prove it"

The worst part is when they don’t even know when to use which cliché. After a long talk with my mom about some of the concerns I had with the doctrine she just responded with, “Well the church is true even if the people aren’t” I had to ask her, “What does that even mean? I just gave you a list of the reasons why I could no longer believe the church. I didn’t say anything about the members.” At that point she just bore her testimony. They really have no idea how to communicate with people who aren’t persuaded by their little clichés.

In a meeting I had with my stake president I told him that I no longer accepted emotions and feelings as proof of anything accept the chemical levels in my brain. He tried and tried to explain that “the spirit” is so much more than emotions and feelings. So I asked him how to tell the difference. All of his answers just relied on feelings as an explanation and I just kept calling him on his circular logic. Finally, exasperated he said, “Well when you experience it you will understand.” That may be true but you have to admit that’s like somebody asking for directions and all a local can say is, “Well when you get there you’ll know it.”
I tried not to come across as argumentative. I really think it was the first time anybody had pointed out how circular and nonsensical most LDS “logic” really is.

And the problem is, every religion with "true believers" feels those same feelings in regard to their religion. When we were visiting other churches, the pastor at the local Episcopalian church told what led her to leave corporate America and go to seminary to become a minister. It was those same "feelings." Then we went and heard Shawn McCraney speak somewhere and he talked about "the Spirit" which my then TBM DH pointed out sounded exactly like what Mormons said. My husband actually asked Shawn how the spirit he felt as a non-Mormon was different than what he felt as a Mormon. I don't remember the answer, but it led my husband to say that maybe there wasn't anything special about a Mormon testimony. That those feelings were common to anyone who believed about what they believed. So I owe Shawn one for that - even if he didn't convince DH to leave the church, he convinced him that the "spirit" isn't a Mormon monopoly.

CA girl Wrote:
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> he convinced him that the "spirit" isn't a Mormon monopoly.

The spirit is generated by hormon levels in our brains. It can be triggered by any event that inspires us to think outside oureselves. You can get it in church and you can get it while reading Harry Potter. It's real. But it doesn't mean the church is real any more than it means Harry Potter is real.

I get this all the time. It's like you're talking to Siri.

I normally just lay out the evidence, and close with this...

" But please prove me wrong. I WISH the church was true."