Just came across this short clip about why fun religions fail. Apparently religious people need a challenge. I recently read this from another source in regard to the spread of ancient Christianity and why it overcame Paganism.

One important reason, apparently, was demand. Responding to Christianity's demands created a sense of a closer relationship with God and a feeling of investment. Most Paganism for most pagans on the other hand was low-demand and therefore did not generate as much loyalty. This is also a reason given for the success of Mormonism and the Jehovah Witnesses.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_wright_show/2012/04/28/eric_weiner_on_why_fun_religions_fail.html

That would explain why Mormons have 3 hours of meetings on sunday. It makes them feel more righteous than others who only suffer for an hour.

It also explains why they pay tithing, do interviews, covet their recommends, and wear underwear that makes them miserable day and night.

If you're a mormon, misery = righteousness. The competition is heavy.

When the Romans were polytheistic they had a policy of allowing the conquered nations to retain their native religion and gods alongside Roman gods. When Christianity took over the Roman Empire the policy became to stamp out all competing religions. That policy extended to the conquest of the new world. Perhaps the difference is that polytheistic religions like paganism are more accepting of different beliefs, where as monotheistic religions are less tolerant and thus exert more social pressure on followers and non-followers to conform to their view of morality.

I've been saying this for a wile.

Black and white thinking dosent have any room for other gods or other relegions because they are all of the devil.

Unless I get to do something crazy like flog myself; play with rattlesnakes or refuse coffee I just don't feel like I'm really doing a religion. With the Flying Spaghetti Monster I can refuse Parmesan. That makes me feel that I am suffering enough to feel holier than the next guy.

Well that explains why nobody could ever keep a sex-cult going more than a couple hundred years...

I beg to differ. Christianity overcame Paganism because Christians burned, tortured, drowned, and executed the Pagans most of the Pagans they couldn't convert -- then appropriated their holidays.

The Christians failed to completely eradicate Paganism; it went underground. Today, Paganism is alive and well, and growing fast: http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_nbr3.htm.

And, yes, it's fun. Misery is not a requirement for spiritual growth.

There was some persecution of the pagans but mostly the Christians were busy persecuting other Christians. Yes, paganism continued on, mostly in the countryside, and many nominal Christians were still pagans. And, yes, NeoPaganism is a lot of fun as I know first hand, and everyone says they are growing really fast.

Kind of sad though alot of this stuf with the evangelical christiahns might just push them back undergorund.

Christinsanity overcame paganism because they gained the backing of the state.

When Constantine converted to Christianity it was already the majority or close to the majority religion in the Empire. It wasn't just that Constantine sponsored Christianity, Christians threw their support behind him in his conflict with his rival for the throne. After his victory Constantine did favor the Christian church by giving the church great sums of money and appointing Christians to government office. However, he also continued to make donations to Pagan temples, appoint Pagan public officials, and made laws promoting tolerance among Christians and Pagans. Afterall, he had an empire to run and did not want upheavals. The groups he did persecute were heretic Christian groups because he felt Christianity should be united.

At least this is what I have read.

Also, the pagans, for the most part did not proselytize nor did they, with a few exceptions, form congregations. The Christians on the other hand did proselytize and did organize into congregations. They were much more active and therefore grew quickly.

I wanted to clarify on persecution of pagans. Whether or not there were persecutions of pagans depends on the period we are looking at. I just read this on the Church's rationale for persecuting the pagan Wise Ones in the Middle Ages and thought it would be of interest to you.

From The Triumph of Christianity by Rodney Stark:

"All magic works some of the time. Many magical medical treatments and other uses of church magic often seemed successful— the desired outcome was gained. But because the nonchurch magic also succeeded (probably more often than church magic because it was usually associated with herbal and other physical treatments, some of which were effective), it could not be dislodged by church magic. That raised a dangerous question. Christianity is a theological religion. It isn’t satisfied with mystery and meditation, but seeks to ground its entire system of beliefs in logic and reason. This has many admirable features, including the way the Christian commitment to rationalism provided a model for the development of Western science. But when confronted with magic, this aspect of Christianity turned out to have tragic consequences. In other cultural settings magic is usually taken for granted. Thus, the ancient Romans and Greeks devoted little or no effort to explaining why magic works— as it appears to do, at least some of the time. But Christian thinkers demanded to know why magic works. A clear answer could easily be provided for why church magic worked. God, Jesus, the Holy Ghost, sometimes Mary, and various saints angels were the active agents; when church magic failed it was because these supernatural beings had decided it should not work in a given instance. Clearly, however, these hallowed figures did not cause nonchurch magic to work. Who then? The answer seemed equally obvious: evil supernatural beings, especially Satan. From there it was a short, obvious step to deducing that thousands of Wise Ones all across Europe were involved in satanic dealings. The witch hunts were born. 91"

Stark, Rodney (2011-10-25). The Triumph of Christianity: How the Jesus Movement Became the World's Largest Religion (Kindle Locations 4517-4531). Harper Collins, Inc.. Kindle Edition.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2012 06:15PM by robertb.

This topic reminded me about a talk I gave when I was TBMish. I included things into the talk that are on this topic:

...He reports that Rodney Stark, a non-Mormon sociologist at the University of Washington, who is the most prestigious sociologist of religion in our time, and has studied new religious movements for thirty years, studied the LDS church extensively.

Stark states that the LDS Church seems to have "got it right," from a sociological point of view, and because it got it right, has shown steady and even spectacular growth, even in adversity. Stark studied the LDS Church to discover the sociological conditions that led to its success, and developed a theory of church growth based specifically on his studies of the LDS Church

He found that lenient churches tend to decline, while strict churches avoid what can be described as "free riders," or people who belong but rarely attend or contribute to the church. He describes the LDS church as a strict church.
He came up with some conditions for a church to grow. One condition is Legitimate leadership, as well as the feeling by members that they participate in the system of authority. A church must be able to motivate people to give service to the church, and the LDS Church is remarkable in its ability to motivate both its young and old people to serve as missionaries and to serve in callings.

Another condition states that a church must have strong bonds of friendship among members, as well as members who reach out to non-members to fellowship them.
Finally, a church must avoid secularization, including inactivity and disobedience to its teachings, and it must socialize its young people effectively.

Duke claims that organizationally and functionally, the LDS Church is a true sociological marvel, a social organization that stands as a model of church growth and success. It is wonderfully organized and is able to motivate its members to serve and to support the church.

Thanks, DNA. Stark also proposes the related idea where churches compete, religion is intense. He writes that countries in Europe which have state religions--those which support an official church through taxation and suppress other churches--create a lazy church and reduce participation. Essentially, because their is little choice about church affiliation, fewer people participate. If you can't choose your church, you then choose the intensity level. He contrasts this with the U.S. in which churches compete and therefore experience more intensity.

P. S. I had James Duke as a ward bishop at BYU. Very nice guy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2012 09:45AM by robertb.

The Wiccan, Pagan, Spiritualist and Native American religions are all on the increase in the U.S., according to the Census bureau. The UU's were on the increase until 2001, and have since fallen off. Buddhism has increased sharply since 1990.

A big increase is for those people who elect, "No Religion." That is perhaps the most fun choice of all!