If I was under any possible church disciplinary issue, would the SP contact me, or would the Bishop. He must know that I have not paid tithing and have not had a temple recommend for at least 5 years.

I suspect this may be a meeting to see what's going on with me. I am just a little paranoid. I don't think I want to meet with him, and feel that it would only be counter-productive.

I just want to be left alone. You would think that this would not be a hard thing to understand.

I told his secretary that I would need to know the purpose of the meeting before I agreed to go. If there is no purpose given to me, I can use that as an excuse not to go. I believe I have a right to know why he needs to speak to me.

LS

"Thanks for the offer. I'm really focused on my family at the moment and not free to meet. I'll let you know if that changes. Have a great day!"

You have a right not to meet with him. you have every right to tell him to @@##$ off and leave you alone. Do not meet with him if you not want to.

If you are a Melchizidek priesthood holder, the Stake President will be the one to act on any church discipline. If you are a woman or other non-MP holder the Bishop conducts the discipline action.

They will show up at your house uninvited/unannounced since there is a great push to bring the inactives back in.
In other words, they want your money and your free work.

Change your number and don't answer the door.

Who cares what a stake president wants, you are under no obligation to give it to him.
Mormon "authority" is all in their deluded brains.

IMO as a human being we all have the right to NOT meet with any religious leader who we choose to NOT meet with. In my country (a large one in North American between Mexico and Canada) its a constitutionally protected right, even in the state where I live called Utah which happens to be a Mormon theocracy (though more benign in my home county called Salt Lake) surrounded by 49 states that have more balanced religious diversity. Now if this was Iran and I was a native Iranian living in Iran and wavering in my testimony of the Koran and my mullah wanted to meet with me then I certainly would do so as I'd probably go the intent of prolonging my life and thus bearing strong testimony to the divinity of Muhammad and all the sacred words of Islam (as interpreted by my mullah or whoever held the most power in my local region in deciding who gets beheaded for apostasy). I'd also looking for a way to emigrate to some land of liberty. However as an exmormon in my country I have no fear of the Mormon leaders and frankly think that any meeting with them is a total waste of time. IMO the best way to handle the LDS middle managers is via email where a paper trail gets established and in such correspondence I'd lay down the self-evident ground rule that any church every trying to claim its a true church (and especially the only true church) has a responsibility to be completely honest and truthful with its membership and that such responsibility trumps all assumptions that anyone owes them anything at all. Unless you were the person who conned Joseph Smith into starting this conman fraud you have nothing to apologize for and no obligation to meet with them at all, unless you really want to do so.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2012 01:19PM by alex71ut.

You don't have to meet with him. You also don't have to tell him, or any other supposed authority, anything you don't want to. My SP met with me when my husband was bishop. He asked me several times if I had any questions for him, I repetedly told him no, no questions. That also appears to be keeping other "authority" figures from questioning me, I won't satisfy their curiosity or let them correct my thinking and that's no fun for them at all.

Remember "presumption of authority" is not in fact authoruty!

You are under no obligation to meet with him, even if he gives you a minute to minute agenda for the meeting. You have control over how you spend your time, it is your life, not theirs.

If you truly do want to be left alone, your best option is to resign. There usually is no need to change your phone number. If you do go the route of resignation, they may try to stop by or schedule a meeting, you are under no obligation to talk to them and probably shouldn't talk to them anyway, since you're trying to send a message that you want to be left alone. If they come to your door, if you answer the door at all, state politely "I'm busy" and "there's no need to come by later" then close the door.

I sent the form letter found on this site to both my local Bishop and the Church Headquarters address and other than a single e-mail from the Bishop acknowledging the request and the "please come back" and finally the "You're out" letters, I didn't have any further contact with the church. Sometimes, though needlessly bothersome, the process can go smoothly.

Thanks.

As I sit here, I just feel angry.

I don't want to project that anger. I am trying for ambivalence. Most the time I am just ambivalent about the Church. This has been the case, because other than a few comments in passing from members I see in the community, I have been left alone. I have appreciated this.

Maybe it would be fun to meet with him and give him no information. He would then most likely consider me a liar, or use his powers of "discernment" to analyze what sins I am hiding. Either way, the deck is stacked against me.

Part of my not wanting to meet with him is my Mormon conditioning, which is to succumb to authority. I am afraid that I would fall prey to this conditioning and relinquish my true feelings and let down my guard, thereby providing him with fodder to screw with my otherwise peaceful and tranquil life.

If I can truly not take this seriously....see him as a deluded but sincere guy in a fictitious but all important to him role as my ecclesiastical leader and Judge, I think I could handle it.

I don't know what his next plan of action (if any) would be if I refused to meet with him.

OH well, thanks for your support.


LS

"I told his secretary that I would need to know the purpose of the meeting before I agreed to go. If there is no purpose given to me, I can use that as an excuse not to go."

You don't need any excuse not to go. Just say, "No thank you".

You have been conditioned. You are aware of it now. It takes time but the unraveling has begun. I don't think there is much danger in meeting with him. Either it turns out to be a non issue, just a "hows it going and can we expect to see you in church?" kind of thing. In which case you shake hands and mumble something non-commital and go back under the radar.

Or, it gets ugly with the SP tyring to wave his mighty priesthood right in your face. Here is were you get royally ticked off and unload on the poor sap then end up formally resigning becasue you just don't want to deal with weenies like that.

Either way, the church won't get you back so what's the worry?

I'd politely decline. I wouldn't trust his agenda anyway, let's face it, he's a mormon.

Briggy

The answer to his next question, "Why?" is "None of your business, good-bye" and hang up the phone or send the email.

There is absolutely no need for you to have a reason not to meet with him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2012 01:47PM by MJ.

He's going to ask you if you look at porn. That's what they always do these days.

He won't believe you if you say no, unless you want to come back to church

The only authority this man has is what you give him. Don't give him any.

You can decline to meet for any reason or no reason. You don't owe him any explanation.

and you name ended up on his list. He has no personal interest in this.

You are giving him way too much credit.

He has a bunch of talking points that they think scare people into paying. It's no different than dealing with a car salesman or a politician. He's going to try to use you to boost his numbers so he can brag about it.

Why would you choose to subject yourself to it? It's lose/lose which ever way it goes.

Let's see, someone you don't know and have never met called you to schedule a meeting with someone else that you don't know and have never met and will not tell you the purpose of the meeting.

Hmmmmm what would a normal person do in such a situation?

In this country, church participation is 100% voluntary. Always, all the time. You choose whether or not to participate by your actions - by showing up or not. There is no "contractual" relationship between you & the church. You can up & leave at any time.

DON'T MEET WITH THESE PEOPLE, THEY JUST WANNA CONTROL YOU. YOU ARE A LAW ABIDING ADULT, YOU DID NOTHING WRONG. THE TEMPLE CERAMONY JUST FREAKS YOU OUT!

If you refuse to meet with him, and you are still a member, then he may make up some charges to start church disciplinary proceedings against you. (If you haven't been to church for 5 years, you're bound to have done *something* wrong in their eyes).

I suggest if you haven't done so already that you get in first and resign.

Just listen politely to his sales pitch. Then politely say, "Im not interested. Please put me on your do not call list."

I was all set to wonder why you just didn't tell the guy to knock it off--then I realized that, five-plus years after leaving Catholicism for UUism (while my siblings and their families remain Catholic), I have not yet been able to look a priest in the eye and say, "I'm not Catholic anymore.". And I'm turning 60 soon.

Didn't you die about 10 years ago???

Just go and start belting lyrics:

I excuse myself,
I'm used to my little cell
I amuse myself,
In my very own private hell

or maybe even better start singing "God Am". I bet he'd really like that...

You will give him power over you if you go. JUST SAY NO.

Dear Exec Sec, thanks for the invite to meet with the Stake President. I'm not ready to do that yet, so I'm afraid you will need to leave it with me and I will call when and if I feel I want go ahead with the meeting. Have a nice day.

To LayneStaley....I am a huge fan of the real Layne Staley, so maybe change your username...you are not him :/

This works for me:

Ask the Exec Sec. or whoever is scheduling the meeting what it is about. He knows, but will probably not tell you. Or he may hint what it is about. Doesn’t matter.

Follow up with the Exec Sec. your concern of becoming a ward council “project.” Make it clear that you know how easily that can happen and someone’s life laid open and reputation destroyed. Say something like, “I will agree to meet with SP on the condition of confidentiality. If I am approached by a well-meaning, but clumsy HT attempting to “help” with the topic that SP and I talk about, I will know that the confidentiality has been broken by SP. From that point I will be cordial to SP but will not speak to him on any topic again.” Make it easy for the SP to comply by agreeing to the same confidentiality agreement. If SP agrees to the conditions, then make the appointment. All this happens with the Exec Sec.

When and if you decide to meet with SP, by doing the above, you’ve already taken control of the meeting. I discovered early, it is useless to try and convert the Bishop or SP. I can pile up evidence to shore up my case, he can pile up just as much to shore up his case. It goes nowhere.

As many on RfM have said, the best reponse is “It just doesn’t work for me anymore” Or, “I don’t believe it anymore” Repeat as many times as necessary in your best calm reasonable Bene Gesserit “Voice” You’re still in control because they have no real response.

A good backup is to have someone call or text you after 15 or 20 minutes. “Oh Gee, I have to take this” Leave and don’t come back!

I dont understand why we should feel obligated to say or do anything. When I left Mormonism at 14, I only gave a reason to my parents. I never once explained myself to anyone else in the Mormon church. When any of the people from my ward tried to corner, my answer was always the same. I am not Mormon

Tell him you are happy to meet him at the local strip club at 9 pm and he has to buy the first lap dance. He is not your leader if he wants to meet you, he can do it on your terms.

You do NOT need to meet with this guy.


Furthermore, you are NOT obligated to give him (or his Exec Secretary) any explanation at all.



To quote the late Nancy Reagan: JUST SAY NO !


Politely, of course.

Yeah newlyreleased, I realize Layne has been gone a long time. I chose that name at a time in my life when I was big into AIC. I don't post here very often. I thought I would be consistent since someone might have seen other posts of mine (however long ago it might have been).

Very good comments. I am hesitant to resign, but would not rule it out, particularly if the SP opted to pursue discipline on me. I think my Father in Law would be the first in line to testify against me, as would his new wife, who is syrupy sweet on the outside, but kneels at the alter of worship of her priesthood husband, who can do no wrong. I wouldn't put it past my Brother to be someone who would throw me under the bus. He would never tell me to my face. He is a bigger wuss than I am when it comes to deference for his church leadership.


I don't think the SP is the type of person that would stir anything up. It probably is an activation/slash porn interrogation. As far as confidentiality....yeah right.

I have made the decision not to speak with him. If he can't handle that, then too bad. I am close to cutting off all contact with my Father in law. I am not telling him this, but he will figure it out as time progresses. If it gets ugly, I will consider my options.

Just call me "Brokenfencesitter" as I will retire my LayneStaley moniker as of now.

thats it in a "Nutshell"...

peace out.