I received the following email from a close family member who is a CES Director but I won't state where at this time. And no, this is not the same Director that Jeremy Runnels spoke with I don't think? He, the CES Director, and I have had months worth of exchange on the topic of truthfulness and church history etc . He was very respectful of my position but nonetheless continues to tote the church co's. official line. This might be a long post, but I had to get this off my chest and share. I will post his response and then mine to my family below that. I figured it's fair game if the CES Director initiates a conversation using public emails why can't I respond in kind with the "Rest of the Story". It is interesting that the CES Director sent this. This Director is very in tune with Church Channels and certain Historians for the Church. I believe this is a specific mandated directive from his bosses to spread the message on the essays to lessen the amount of those members who are leaving. With my email, I'm fairly certain this will ruffle feathers in my family, which is unfortunate. I wanted to scream wake up from your dreams people!! but that would certainly be ignored, so instead I tried to approach my email audience with simple words and thoughts. I guess i'll finally know who my "real" family is after this. Please see CES Director's response below and mine below that...

Dear Family,

I wanted to share a few resources with you as a family. In the world we live in, it can be common to have questions about the Church’s doctrine, history, or position on social issues. The www.lds.org website has made some changes where they are trying harder to address common concerns people have. Sometimes when a member has a question, they can feel alone or feel like there could not possibly be an answer to resolve their questions. But there is so much great information out there. One place is: http://www.youtube.com/user/fairldsorg or http://www.fairmormon.org/ . on the www.lds.org website, go under “Teachings” on the top tab, and then “Gospel Topics”. Just a few they have added recently are:


•Are Mormons Christian?
•Becoming Like God
•Book of Mormon and DNA Studies
•Book of Mormon Translation
•First Vision Accounts
•Plural Marriage and Families in Early Utah
•Race and the Priesthood
•Same-Sex Marriage
•The Divine Institution of Marriage
•Women in the Church
•The translation of the book of Abraham



Hope you find this useful personally, with family and friend, or with your callings.

CES Director



Thanks "CES Director"! These are certainly good resources to have when questions arise. It is great that the Church is finally beginning to respond to some of the questions. As you are intimately aware there exist many different faith challenging issues that members have, as it pertains to certain aspects of church history or doctrine, and I appreciate that you took the time to listen to mine some time ago. J It can leave you with a feeling of extreme loss when something that you believed for so long becomes something other than what you might have once thought it was or purported to be. I share openly as I have gone through this process personally. I have reviewed the sources you suggested, specifically the Church “Essays”, and found them to be “good beginnings” but not entirely complete for the questions I had personally. I guess I needed more “meat” than “milk” answers. Should anyone find themselves in a similar situation, as I was, I would recommend some additional resources for researching that, to me, will complete the discussion more broadly and plainly. It can been difficult to get “real” answers and responses to these issues especially from those you think should have the answers. Hanns Mattson, former member of the 3rdQuorum of the 70, recently expressed concerns over troubling church history and doctrine ( I have added the NYTimes link below). In short, I’m glad the Church is at least attempting to respond to some of the concerns that exist. Since the release of the “essays” the Church appears to be sending the message that It’s ok to research and question the origins and doctrine. I sincerely hope this is the case, that members won’t feel pressure to remain silent but to ask and better understand, through all means available to them, and not face a judgmental eye by anyone but only love and caring as they work through their concerns weather privately or in public. After all if you have the truth you have nothing to hide…



· Mormonthink.com

· Mormonstories.org ( this is the podcast that John Dehlin hosts and does a fantastic job moderating between both believer and non-believer)

· Sunstone blog

· Mormonexpression.com

· There was an interview Hans Mattson had with a New York Times reporter published on the front page of the NYT on the July 21, 2013 edition called: Some Mormons Search the Web and Find Doubt



I believe "CES Director" understands my position very well and I appreciated that he took the time to listen to me when my foundation crumbled beneath me. I love my life now, even more and my relationship with my family is terrific! I value and respect all of my extended family. My position isn’t to convert or de-convert anyone from their beliefs to my way of thinking…my position is to offer additional resources as others have and a listening ear if needed. Mine isn’t to judge or belittle, only respect that there are opinions and thoughts that differ from mine that could add great value to what we see together.




Lovingly…

Lock it down

Can i just say i'm so glad to be out of the ratrace of moism!

Did he reply to your reply?

I like the pleasant tone, I think your note comes across as helpful rather than spiteful. I think this will make it more likely that people will actually look up your references.

I have received one reply from a kind aunt...she asked everyone to trust in the holy ghost and that the prophets have always encouraged us to seek truth... who really knows at this point? I anticipate that the CES Director will respond but i'm unsure how at this point. If and when he does i will post. I am so tempted to post our email exchange of when I became disaffected but I lose brain cells each time I read it.

http://www.jw.org/en/

Mormonism is a money grubbing, mind-stealing, brainwashing cult. Trying to pretend otherwise is wishful thinking.

So I received another response to my email from family members. This one, A stake prez, has recently gone through his own doubts and had issues with Fair Lds (surprise there). I thought his response was genuine, but supported the "feelings" angle a lot. I respect this man for his outside the morg work accolades, I can only scratch my head and wonder how he continues to deal with his own disillusionment? I have attached his response and mine to his.

Hi Lock it down,



I'm glad you and your family are doing well. It seems like forever since we saw you last. It was probably at a reunion in the White Mountains about three years ago.




This message is only going to you as I don't want to not clog up the emails of others who may not be interested.




I was interested to see that you referred the family email group to some of the same material to which an employee of a client referred me in mid June. I am forwarding the related email string.




I think I read enough of what he sent me to learn that one of the subjects Mr.Dehlin approached had to do with questioning the existence or authenticity of Jesus Christ. When I read that, I knew that he was not a messenger from God and I would be foolish to let him influence the eternal destiny of my family.




I am forwarding this message to let you know that I have not hid from the detractors of the Church. Neither have I glossed over the troubling aspects of the Church's history. In fact, I delved into just about all the credible anti-Mormon material that was in circulation at the time (as confirmed by a member of FAIR who has the standing assignment of monitoring and responding to all Internet postings that disparage the Church, and/or its history, doctrines and leaders). Yes, I passed through a dark time of doubt but, in the end, I came out with a stronger testimony and joy than ever before. The attachment that I sent to my children gives a summary.




My purpose is not to speak to any of the issues raised in the links you provided. Rather, I want to pass along two truths that came to me through my struggles and through helping others with theirs. I don't know that either applies to you but I share them just in case.




1) If one feels he/she is showing integrity by leaving the Church because of things he/she learned, that is only true if he/she wears out his/her life finding what is more true. Just stopping something isn't a commitment to integrity. It is a commitment to convenience. If a person is willing to let convenience determine the eternal fate of his/her family, I am truly sorry for him/her. Go find the truth that will save you and your family and bring it to those of us you feel have been duped. Doing so is the only way to truly show integrity and love. (If you believe in a perfectly just, omniscient, loving God, it is hard to believe that he thinks you are better off leaving something without going to something better.)





2) When you seek for truth from God, only accept it from those who truly qualify as being His messengers. His messengers will spend much more time edifying you and building your faith than they will trying to disparage it. Would God send messengers whose approach is to allow "truth" to be defined through debate?




I love you, Lock it down. You are and always have been a good guy. Don't feel like you need to defend anything you believe or have done to me. I know you have sought to do right.




I wish you and your family all the best.




Stake Prez

Hi Stake prez! Thanks for your candid response and willingness to share something that was so personal. I firmly believe that what I know now has lead me and my family to a stronger and more genuine life. I am more complete outside of Mormonism than I was within. To me this seemed unimaginable while I was a faithful member, I tried diligently to be happy in the church but I couldn't continue to ignore the things I was learning any longer. I now see the Church as an organization but nothing more. I personally do not believe in the saving power of Jesus, and barely believe there is a God in general. I understand your feelings on this and share transparently with you mine. I have found a renewed sense of belonging and reason post Mormonism that has been refreshing and exhilariting! It has now been 2 years since the family left the Church. I am encouraged that you are interested and willing to accept my views and opinions as mine with no judgment rendered. I mutually offer my concerns and compassion for what you went through and undoubteldy still face as a previous Bishop, Stake President and Patriarch of your family. Please take care, and stay in touch as you see fit. I still have fond memories of our reunion at the White Mountains Cabin, sorry we couldn't make the most recent CALI trip reunion I heard it was well attended and fun.

Sincerely,

Lock it down

some additional excerpts from what he sent me that i thought would be interesting to read...

(stake prez) When I decided to dig into all of the attacks on the church to help the college student, I decided to be open and to investigate everything. As noted in the attachment, there were several historical items that I could not dismiss and for which FAIR nor anybody else had a good response. That was troubling to me and caused me to enter a dark time of doubt. I spent countless hours investigating those items and came to the point of acknowledging that some troubling historical issues did not have good responses. It appeared that several historical figures had behaved inconsistent with who they claimed to be and that some accounts of historical events were inconsistent.

(stake prez contd.) The bottom line is that I am convinced that there are real problems in the history of the Church. I would be naive to suggest otherwise. However, I am convinced that the Church is the restored Kingdom of God on the earth and that He was able to carry out the restoration in spite of the bad choices and inconsistencies of those He chose to play a part.


I also thought it was interesting that he (stake prez) is fully aware of the lengths that church apologists are asked to take to preserve the name of the church on websites everywhere...not that this is any real surprise to us on this forum.

"A member of FAIR who has the standing assignment of monitoring and responding to all Internet postings that disparage the Church, and/or its history, doctrines and leaders"

The SP response is very weak.

1. The idea that you must spend your life searching for the real truth if you leave a false one because if you don't you won't evidence integrity is silly.

I have a broken watch. It's right twice a day. That doesn't mean I should cling to that watch because I don't have a better option. Broke is broke. I can toss it and move on. Further a falsehood could actually be more damaging than a neutral position in which you step back from all faith but remain open minded.

2. Examine the messenger. If someone offers you a multi level marketing scheme but you must invest heavy and the cops show up and tell you it's a scam, do you A. Tell the cops they're just being negative losers or B. Keep up paying your money into the scheme because cutting your losses or basing your choice on the evidence rather than the appearance and apparent motivations of the different messengers is somehow more reliable?

Your SP friend sounds like z nice guy but his logic is awful.

"1) If one feels he/she is showing integrity by leaving the Church because of things he/she learned, that is only true if he/she wears out his/her life finding what is more true. Just stopping something isn't a commitment to integrity."

Is that concept true with everything? In order to show integrity in leaving the church you have to wear out your life finding out what is more true?

IN order to stop believing in Santa do I have to wear out my life proving that the Easter bunny is more true? If I want to stop believing that golf is the funnest sport to play do I have to wear out my life proving that shuffleboard is more fun?

So, to show integrity in leaving the church you have to wear out your life proving that Jehova's witness is more true? What if they are both false?

You don't have to prove that something is MORE true than the church in order to leave it. It's OK to not know what happens after this life and be OK with that.

A high speed internet connection and 3 hours of research is about all it takes to prove the church is not true. You can then leave with your integrity in tact.

I've seen some pretty crazy mental gymnastics from Mormons justifying their beliefs but that is pretty high on the crazy list.

Well how about no Mormonism. If you leave it haven't you already discovered something "more true?" Sounds pretty easy to me and you don't even have to wear out your life (what an expression!).

I received a follow response from the Stake prez. He thinks life would be a bummer...I couldn't disagree more!

That makes total sense. If I didn't believe in God or Jesus, belonging to the Church would be a total bummer - a total waste of time, energy and money. Somebody giving me reasons to dismiss the Church would provide welcome relief.



I spent some time listening to a report from a group of atheists discussing how they can and are good people even though they don't believe in any existence beyond mortality. Their argument (being good because that makes life better for everyone) could apply to many who profess a belief in a god. I will have to say, however, that it would be a total bummer to me to think that my entire existence begins with birth and ends with death. My granddaughter who is totally disabled by a genetic disease and whose life will be cut short by that disease really got a raw deal under the mortality-is-everything philosophy.




Keep smiling. I hope we run into each other before long.




Take care,

Stake prez


Thanks, Stake prez. I don't see it through the same lense as you describe it from. I certainly understand your points. While I don't have an answer to the existence of an after life or God my life isn't worth less while I live it for today and prepare towards tomorrow and remember yesterday. Life means so much more to me now than it ever had previously. For me life now is anything but a bummer :) I empathize with your Grand daughters situation. I recall how difficult that situation was and still is on you and those you care extremely for. As you recall, our oldest has Down Syndrome and is extremely limited vocally . I choose to enjoy who he is and not worry so much about what i think he should have been. I can't control that, but i can certainly control the Love and tenderness I express to him daily and make his time here, however limited it might be, the best most amazing time he can have. I know you afford the same to your Grand daughter too :) If there is something more to life than what I know...cool If not, I at least left my posterity in the best way I knew how. No regrets.