is that it gives a false explanation of why things happen.

It's the rain dance thing.

I expect that for millenia humans have been coming up with reasons why things happens and ascribing them to some intentional hidden force.
I think it's natural since there are plenty of actual unintentional hidden forces if there isn't an intentional one.

Another innovation of religion, however, that makes it insidious if not sinister, is the invention of "authority". I don't mind if people conjure up their own theories about why things happen all day long, as long as they at least reveal the source...their own ass.
But when you get people claiming that God spoke to them, and claiming authority and privileges over others by virtue of their chosenness...whole new ballgame...now you've got DOGMA, because someone takes what they made up, and says they got it from god and that it's "gospel".
Then when it bumps up against reality, they make up even more reasons why THAT happened...and it mushrooms into this whole body of "doctrine" where people just piled one dogma on another until you've got this whole imaginary reality parallel to actual reality.
Then circular logic keeps it going. You've got a false explanation for why things happen...but they keep happening like clockwork, like they always have, and making the belated explanation look right!

Mormonism is filled with false explanations for things. Like, the reason a man is a good father and a good husband is because he "honors his priesthood". There are plenty of good fathers and husbands who reject "priesthood" as even being true, and plenty of dead-beat-dads and just sucky wimpy men who are all into their priesthood. But there are just enough losers who also happen to reject priesthood to give TBMs enough examples to keep the stereotype going.

Everything will be better, there will be a happy ending if you ______________________________________. If it doesn't work out that way, it's your fault, not the religion's.

Yes, this really hits home. It truly is a fundamental false premise of religion.

If you follow the prophet in all things, everything will be great.

If you are experiencing bad luck, bad things, etc., you must be doing sinful things

The false explanations apply to almost everything in life

Not only religion, but everyone living MUST build a fundamental understanding of it all. Mormonism has a 'spiritual' understanding of injust practices regarding for instance racism and sexual attraction, in a degree not found in the rest of the world, which keeps it fundamentally conservative in a lot of issues regarding freedom of choice (and coward/faith-lacking in issues of holding on to them, for instance polygamy). They don't EVER take lead in ANY issues regarding freedom or democracy or liberty. They don't contribute with anything of value, actually.

How about you focus on God, rather than religion?
God is true, God is enduring, God is love. The Bible wasn't written by a religion, not the Mormons, not the Baptists, not the Hindus - it is the word of God. Have an open mind.

The Bible promotes a God of no empathetic understanding of the human condition, and in reality: not a loving, but an insensitive and violent God, demanding human sacrifice for His/It's/Her lack of forgiveness.

Not true. You've never read the Bible if you believe that.

I've read it not only once, but several, times - all the way through.

I've read the bible completely and many parts of it multiple times.

I agree completely with this statement:
"The Bible promotes a God of no empathetic understanding of the human condition, and in reality: not a loving, but an insensitive and violent God, demanding human sacrifice for His/It's/Her lack of forgiveness."

How else do you explain Noah and the flood? Or literally hundreds/thousands of other examples of god killing people for often very minor offenses. How about the guy who tried to stop the Altar from falling and was killed for touching it? Or those in the early Christian church who were struck dead for not paying their tithing?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2012 02:20PM by ronas.

I grew up reading the Bible. That God is a monster.

I grew up reading the Bible too. I especially loved how god treated women. So many misogynist sicko stories to pick from.

Expect god is just what someone else made up and told you to believe.

Err, the Bible wasn't written by a religion? I beg to differ. I agree it wasn't written by the Mormons, Baptists or Hindus... How about the Jews and early Christians?

The bible is so full of contradictions and evil that if it is the word of god, god is a jerk. Have you actually read the bible? You agree it is appropriate to stone someone to death for masturbation? Or that divorce is adultery? Or that children calling someone bald means they deserve to die? Or that polygamy and concubines are acceptable if you are rich and in power but a death penalty offense if not? Or that it is OK to convince an entire city to join your religion, get them to circumsize themselves, and then go in and slaughter them all while they are sore? Or literally hundreds of other examples...

Fine if you want to say that god is good. But the bible is FULL of the problems of relegion that were mentioned as the premise of this thread. It is FULL of false explanations of why things happen.

I'd suggest you try the open mind thing. If you do so you will quickly see that your dogma of believing the bible to be the word of god is illogical.

Yep.

Then the problem is that this false premise is then used for one set of people to exert authority over the other.

Give me your money...
Give me your time...
Give me your respect...

Because I am closer to god and represent him - therefore you need to serve me.

ronas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yep.
>
> Then the problem is that this false premise is
> then used for one set of people to exert authority
> over the other.
>
> Give me your money...
> Give me your time...
> Give me your respect...
>
> Because I am closer to god and represent him -
> therefore you need to serve me.


and Joe Smith took more than peoples time,money and substance. He took their virtue, self worth and dignity from them. He was an abuser with no ones welfare or well being in mind but his own and making others suffer greatly to meet his perverted demands.

Well said.

I think the fundamental, underlying assumption behind this question is restricted to the Abrahamic religions: Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

It's not true (in the specific way intended by the OP) for Hinduism, Buddhism, Native American religions, etc.

I think the scope of the question has to be explicitly limited to the Abrahamic religions only because this is what is the discussion is intended to be limited to.

I have read comparative books on many faiths.

The thing about Mormonism is that it's the only religion that can be conclusively proven to a 100% fraud.

delt1995 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have read comparative books on many faiths.
>
> The thing about Mormonism is that it's the only
> religion that can be conclusively proven to a 100%
> fraud.

I think Scientology is at least as much of a 100% fraud as Mormonism is.

Scientology was completely invented; Mormonism has at least SOME roots and foundations in pre-existing, "accepted" religion--such as Christianity. So in my opinion, Mormonism could maybe be considered a 99% fraud...but Scientology maxes out the scale at 100%.

is that magic is real.

there is only one type of Jesus dividend ever actually paid out, and every penny of it comes out of the hide of other believers.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzMMCA3mmGk

"Wizard's First Rule: people are stupid."

"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."

"People need an enemy to feel a sense of purpose. It's easy to lead people when they have a sense of purpose. Sense of purpose is more important by far than the truth. In fact, truth has no bearing in this.

People are stupid; they want to believe, so they do."


From Wizard's First Rule, written by Terry Goodkind



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2012 08:19AM by davesnothere.