I've just finished reading it (inc 1970 additions) - what a book! Brodie COMPLETELY destroys Joe's character and 'calling'. Seriously, if you've not read it, get on Amazon right now!

I like the book too. I was struck by her restrained tone. Before reading it I had heard dozens of critics take her to task for he shrill and no-hold-barred attack of Mormonism. That is not what I found. It was professional, extremely well researched and sometimes even sympathetic toward J. Smith.

Bushman even put a plug for the book in Rough Stone Rolling. He mentions how well researched her book is. I'm assuming he used her research.

As the niece of the LDS Prophet, she was supposed to write a hagiography of the founder. Instead, she wrote a reliably accurate and balanced account of his life. That was enough to get her excoriated by LDS apologists.

JS was a con man with a lot of talent and charisma. He set up a con and then fell for it himself. Brodie clearly admires Smith while all the while knowing he is full of crap.

She wasn't commissioned to write Joe's story, was she? She wasn't a believer going into the project. Doesn't the book even say that she lied to gain access to church archives?

I have read that Fawn had access to the church library. Mckay knew she was doing the biography of Joseph Smith. She was extremely bright, graduated early from college as a teen and was very impressive.

At some point McKay realized what was happening with Fawn's book and forbade her to use the church library. He later changed his mind and allowed it but she did not use it again.

I read a lot of her history a long time ago and I don't remember anything unscrupulous at all, like lying. I think McKay was blindsided because he had no idea there was so much unsavory "dirt" on Joseph. I don't think his searing powers were up to snuff.

I also ordered it from Amazon after seeing it recommended here on RfM. It's been a dozen years or more since then, but I clearly remember that I thought the book was very balanced. I admire Fawn McKay Brodie for telling the truth using TSCC sources.

I checked it out at the library and was amazed that it was written even before I was born....yet I had no access to this information.

When she said that Joseph Smith could make other people see visions, I thought, "yeah, right, like I'm gonna believe that."

But after fasting and then drinking heavily people do hallucenate.

Depends what they were drinking. See http://www.i4m.com/think/history/holy-ghost.htm

That's one of the things that amazed me - it uncovered so much and was written almost 70 years ago

This was the best, most insightful book I've read on the subject of Joseph Smith. Fawn Brodie's work was very well researched and a great read. I really respect that woman. Just imagine the brethren 's reaction to Brodie's work and their feeble attempt to counter it. Nibley's half assed response that was laughable. Oh to be a fly on the wall at that quorum meeting when they realized they got their ass handed to them by a woman of all people lol!!!

I too have just read fawn brodie's book. It is excellent, and a must read for anyone who wants to know the truth about the founding of the mormon religion.

Yes, a classic from 1940. Fawn M. (McKay) Brodie was a close relative of David O. McKay. The downside to NMKMH is that LD$ inc closed its archives to historians and other researchers once the damage had been done to sanitized church history.

To Ms. Brodie's credit, other historians have replicated many of her findings in first-hand accounts not controlled by the Morg.

One of my favorite findings of NMKMH is that Joseph told the first vision story many times in different ways long after the so-called events. At first, LD$ inc denied multiple versions of the foundational myth. Then, in the 1970s or 80s, the Ensign published an article on how the multiple versions could be compared to different accounts of Jesus in the synoptic gospels. Talk about spin doctoring!

...here's the article in Imrovement Era which started TBM's going;

"wha??? First Visions?? Multiple accounts?? WHA???"

https://archive.org/stream/improvementera7304unse#page/n5/mode/2up

Wow - I didn't know about this pro-TSCC reference to the multiple first vision accounts... thanks for the link!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2014 12:30PM by exodus.

What is the 1831-32 account that the article refers to? It says it was written by a scribe. Were they mistaken? Is this the account written by Joe himself? It also claims that this account is the most complete. The 1832 account written by Joe is not the most complete.

Someone should probably tell all the TBM's visiting the "sacred grove" that nobody actually visited the grove...Joe just fell asleep and had a dream:

"According to scripture, it would be impossible for man to behold Diety with his natural eyes. Joseph Smith made it clear that this profound experience transcended his physical senses and had an exhausting effect on him. "When I came to myself again," he wrote in 1838, "I found myself lying on my back looking up into heaven."

Maybe TSCC should ditch the picture of Joe on one knee looking at god and Jesus with wonder. They can replace it with a picture of him passed out on his back in the woods with his ax in a nearby stump. The church claiming it was just a dream might actually help them out. It's much more difficult to recall every detail of a dream, especially 20 years later, than it is to recall details of memorable actual events.

Last week I was surprised to find in the stacks two old books, "No Man Knows My History" a 1945 edition formerly owned by one J.C. Jones. The second was a very interesting Ogden, Utah history titled, "Beneath Ben Lomond's Peak - A History of Weber County - 1824-1900" by Milton R. Hunter, PHD, first published in 1944 by The Deseret News Press. Also, originally owned by aforementioned J.C. Jones. "Beneath...Peak" was filled with interesting nuggets I had never thought to expect to find in print. Both definitely both good finds.

Please share these interesting nuggets when you get a chance!

This book was hugely influential in my life. I was a 16 year old boy when I first read it. Needless to say, I did not serve a mission.

I felt quite vindicated when I read Bushman's book. Her work is impossible to ignore.

After the publication of No Man Knows My History, Hugh Nibley published a very short booklet called "No Madam, That's Not History" in which he tried to slam Brody. I read it the first time about 35 years ago and laughed at how easy it seemed to dismantle NMKMH, but now, years later, I see how right Fawn was and how full of poop Nibley was.

That was the first non church approved book I read--37 years after I left. It was sublime to read Joseph's history with references, court records, newspaper clippings, journal entries, and whatever.
That book gave me peace. I had left on a gut feeling having never heard any of the supposed "anti" stuff, and finally reading something laced with facts was heaven.

When I was a kid, we were warned to never read it--work of the devil. I also remember everyone smugly heralding Nibley's "No Ma'am That's Not History" and laughing at how easily he debunked her. Well, as they say, time will tell. And all these years later, as the church admits the truth little by little and bit by bit, there is no question Ms Brodie came out on top.

Fawn Brodie is most famous for her biography of Thomas Jefferson which was often widely lauded. She wrote as a biographer. I saw no agenda or bitterness. With Mr. Nibley, I saw an agenda and I saw arrogant smugness.

So what happened to Nibley's work? I assume it is in the same published, but long forgotten pile, as his Joseph Smith and the Egyptian Endowment.

Funny how the historians cite Brodie as a seminal work in JS studies, but ignore Nibley.

Then again, any reputable Egyptologists out there citing Nibley's work as seminal? Of course not, the fucker was a spin artist!

The Boner!

Oh, and here in the Morridor, I had to ask the librarian for a copy, NMKMH was in a secure place. The library reacted to disgust when I asked for the book. I'm sure the American Library Association would blanche at this.

I once had two mishies come to my door. I asked them if they'd read this book. They both blanched and said no. It made me think they'd at least heard of it.

I told them to come back after they'd read it and we'd talk. They never returned.

Missionaries are salesmen. They are not there to debate and discuss. They are there to convert and move on.

Want some fun? Take Brody's book, Bushman's book, and Nibley's book. Compare/contrast. Then for an extension of that fun, compare those to the new book by Alex Beam. Don't want to give too big of a spoiler, but they all make Nibley look like a fool, or just another lying apologist.