I remember thinking that wealthy Mormons were somehow more righteous than the rest of us lowly middles class Mormons when I was a tbm. I often felt intimidated by them. Now as a non-believer I know that having money doesn't make anyone better or special or smarter - it's just money. I have a tbm friend who constantly "name drops" and has to talk about her associations with people in her ward or people she knows in Utah who are either famous or rich, usually both. She has quite a few financial problems. I feel kind of sorry for her in that it seems as though she feels her associations with these people somehow make her more impressive, or maybe she feels like their wealth will rub off on her. I am much more impressed with her kind heart, her sense of humor and fun loving ways than any money or fame.

mormons are obsessed with the image of being wealthy as it's a sign of being blessed by their kolobian lord insomuch as they go into massive debt to assume the role.

In that case, God must really love Hugh Hefner.

I told this story before but right before I quit attending the church, but after I found out it was a hoax, I was at a Youth Conference. The Stake Presidency and all the stake's bishops got up on stage, dressed in suits, and read in unison, some "inspirational" message that lasted about 3-4 minutes. One bishop would read one sentence then another man in the line would read another then all of them together would read the next. And so on. It was totally creepy but the worst part is one of the dark suited men said "I promise you as you live the principles of the Book of Mormon, you will prosper in the land."

The obvious flip side of that is if you aren't prosperous, you must not be living by the gospel principles. It was so obvious to me and so obnoxious, I almost had to leave. But I was manning a booth so I was stuck there. Thankfully, neither of my children were old enough to attend but I went home, told them about that comment and told them how wrong it was.

In answer to your question, I think this attitude is wide-spread in Mormonism. That God blesses those who keep the commandments and those who aren't as rich are somehow "less" - less in favor with God, less righteous, less obedient. Otherwise, God would bless them with more.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 02:16AM by CA girl.

True, unless you're a REALLY REALLY good mormon, in which case god takes away money to test you, because you're obviously so good you can handle the challenge.

Well, unless you're not a mormon, then if you're rich, then you're in the pocket of Stan and he's the one giving you money. And if you're not a mormon and and poor then god is not rewarding you because you're obviously not worthy cuz you're not mormon.

See how all that makes such perfect sense? The gospel is perfect!

My poor TBM in-laws have this mind set exactly. They are blessed in their poverty because of their righteousness. They are so grateful for the trials because the Lord is teaching them important lessons (effing gag me). But her successful Exmo sister? That's all from Satan. Nevermind if she stayed in the church she'd probably be just as successful and that would be because of God.

Drives.me.crazy.

Most of the mormons I worked with and came in contact with was very aware of your financial standing. After my divorce I drove a 10 year old pickup truck,,clothes were not up to date at times. I was in and out of court often,, my life was a mess. And it was pointed out to me often about how I was not a worthy person.
I quit the company and started my own business. The company I worked for went broke and some of the same people came to me and wanted a job. I didn't seem so stupid then.

If you live in Utah--do you think most of the people who live in these big houses can afford them? I live in a lower middle class neighborhood and I love my house. It isn't all that big, but it is nice. I have 2 friends who chose to purchase homes on the "bench" in another town a few miles from mine. They both live far beyond their means and when one husband got fired, they had to quickly sell for less than the house was worth (before the housing crash) and she is embarrassed to live where they do--so now they are on their second mission for the kudos no doubt. She has always resented her husband for not being more ambitious.

I'm her "truth" friend--she calls to tell me the truth about her life. None of her mormon friends know. The other "friend"--I ditched about 20 years ago as I was just so weary of her keeping up with the jones' attitude--nobody was excluded.

Do you think this is unique to mormons?

Status is a pretty big deal to a lot of people.

I know a number of mormons who could care less about wealth or fame. My dad is one of them - he's a dentist and does so much free work that he hardly makes a profit.

Only the poor ones!! :-)

Never generalize about Mormons. They are all very, very different. No two of them live the religion or understand it exactly the same.
That's what I find so fascinating.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 11:59AM by SusieQ#1.

I don't think that statement is true at all, yes poor folks always want more because they need more but to say only poor folks care about the rich is untrue. Rich mormons think the Lord has blessed them more and they are more righteous and prosperous because they follow the Lord more. They feel entitled to the prosperity because they are so good--therefore there must be something wrong with those who have less.

Then again, I think Americans in general are too impressed by such things. Mormons DO seem to take it to a higher level, though.

+10

I was gonna say that all of America is overly-impressed. Read the newspaper or any magazine. Star power, baby! Don't push this off on the Mormons.

Ron

It has a lot less to do with money and a lot more to do with status.

The keeping up with the Jones' is taken to an absurd level here.

I live in the kindest ward I've ever lived in right now and this ward is considered "low income." We have had bishops who were factory workers and construction workers. (And considering my daughter was out of the church from age 8 to age 21--and went back to "my ward" first--she is disturbed by how most mormons act because this ward is different.)

If you don't have wealth in Utah--or don't appear to have wealth--you aren't mormon royalty. I saw this play out to a horrible extent right in my own extended family. If you look like you have more money, you are RIGHTEOUS, and often the wealthy get called to higher leadership positions. Come to Utah--take a look around, live in a Utah ward for a while.

One of the issues when my dad died was that my parents lived very frugally. The "new" bishop came by--new to the area--had no clue who my parents were and my dad said (the bishop came by after my mother died 2 months before my dad) and my dad said, "He thinks I'm poor." There is an ATTITUDE in this state that is very prevalent. My dad was far from poor.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 12:28PM by cl2.

I remember being in a Sunday school meeting about 6 years ago. It was ward conference. The stake presidency was sitting in with the peons in the Sunday school class (gospel doctrine). The teacher made a comment that when we get rich it is likely due to the Lord blessing us. Nobody fired back a retort. I was still TBM at the time and I was furious. This is not what I have observed in life.

IMHO, it is safe to generalize that Mormons, especially those in Utah, are in fact tied to the idea that wealth = righteousness. They may deny it, but they believe it.

I had a very lucerative occupation right out of high school in a semi-skilled position.

I c/would have been happy there except my Mo 'friends' kept pushing me to other 'higher' situations.

Mormon culture is a hamster wheel / rat race, where NO ONE has reached their "full potential" (which they are taught as Godhood/perfection) yet.

Also, the focus is on the outward appearances: clothes, cars, & housing.... ALL of which are dependent upon $ if not 'wealth'

Since it has come up in a couple of other posts, yes I live in Utah Valley.

I don't see the "the wealthy are righteous" connection in Mormon culture that others do. I don't doubt that there are some Utah Mormon's that see it that way, but I don't believe it is the majority. I also have never lived in wealthy areas where perhaps that is more likely to be the case.

A lot of people are fixated on financial success, and some of them equate money with proof of God's love/approval. Prosperity gospel is not restricted to upper crust mormons.

But I think that some (not all) wealthy mormons equate money with god-given, righteous power.

http://politics.salon.com/2012/02/19/billionaire_romney_donor_uses_threats_to_silence_critics/singleton/

Thank you... Melaleuca, eh?

Thanks, SL Cabbie.

I tried to post that link before, but the admins removed it almost immediately. I think, however, that the story focuses on bullying, and on how that may have a tie-in with mormon culture.

The historical summary of the Boy Scouts issue was interesting. Ditto for the roundup of cases against Melaleuca for questionable business practices, false claims, etc.

Here's a quote from the Salon article that talks about bullying, and notes the anti-gay efforts:

But it is VanderSloot’s chronic bullying threats to bring patently frivolous lawsuits against his political critics — magazines, journalists, and bloggers — that makes him particularly pernicious and worthy of more attention. In the last month alone, VanderSloot, using threats of expensive defamation actions, has successfully forced Forbes, Mother Jones and at least one local gay blogger in Idaho to remove articles that critically focused on his political and business practices…

He has a history of virulent anti-gay activism, including the spearheading of a despicable billboard campaign condemning Idaho Public Television for a documentary….In 2008, VanderSloot’s wife, Belinda, donated $100,000 to California’s anti-gay-marriage Proposition 8 campaign.

The journalist, Glenn Greenwald, responded to several commenter at Salon who are concerned for his safety and/or his financial and job security. See excerpts below:

I litigated in Manhattan for more than 10 years – I’m not “naive” about how these things work – I’m fully aware of what’s likely to come, but you can’t let yourself be bullied by people like this, especially when it comes to your core principles and assertions of your important rights.

If Jody May-Chang, standing alone, is willing to take a stand for her rights, everyone should be willing to – it’s an inspiring example.

And when I was in Idaho this weekend, I heard and saw how petrified people are of writing about him – then saw more of it with Mother Jones and Forbes, and that was just too much for me.

Salon deserves a huge amount of credit for standing behind what I wrote. It’s the first time in five years that I gave them advanced warning about what I was writing – I didn’t have to, but thought it was only fair to make sure they were willing to put themselves in the position of the inevitable attacks – and they never blinked in giving me full-fledged support and encouragement.

A lot of places – most – would do not that, but they understood and immediately embraced the journalistic importance of doing it.

Link: http://www.salon.com/user/glenngreenwald-2

Money, power, righteousness, genealogy, social standing in this life and especially the next, God's judgement of you.

Those are all thrown into a pot and stirred together. It's what makes mormons and money a slightly different story. I think it' a bit more crazy making. It's not just you have $$ and people want what you have.

It's all tangled up in religious beliefs. If you have money, And, you are from pioneer stock thats the top of the heap.

If you have money and you're a convert that doesn't quite toe the line. Well, you don't deserve it, and should be giving to everyone in the ward.

One oddly tangled dynamic we haven't discussed is the relationship of money to obedience.

If you are obedient, you will be blessed with more money.

If someone has lots of money, it's a sign from God that you should be obedient to that person.