I hate the position that i've come to be in. I don't believe the church anymore, but i'm afraid to act. I don't want to disappoint my wife or parents. My Dad is a very smart man and a very sincere believer. He has been through some rough times and seen lots of pain. I have had a few long conversations with him and to be honest I have felt like he has understood my complaints the best. He is perfectly content to clean the church and teach sunday school while he doesn't really like Monson and has had major disagreements with local leaders. He has been directly accused by more than one stake president of being unworthy, and that's why he hasn't always had enough money to live comfortably with 12 kids. He sees the system as flawed in many ways, but still he maintains and believes, seeing weakness in others as weakness in them and not the church. I have never seen any of the crazy TBM behavior from him that I have grown to hate. I mentioned that I have a large family, a little less than half of us are active. My dad is incredibly accepting, he does not love bomb but he loves and lets us live. I have a huge amount of respect for my dad.

What originally started me questioning the church a few years ago was when I realized that it was blocking me. I realized that I cared more about appearing to be "good," nothing else really mattered. That was a funny realization because I was very interested in spiritual growth. But I'd already been taught what I needed to do. It's easy to be righteous and worthy, read your scriptures every day, go to church and temple, pay your tithing and you will have your very own holy ghost guide. He'll watch over you and keep you safe from anything that will be bad and only lead you to good. No need to think for myself, I can always trust in somebody else. So, if I did the right things then I was good with god and people knew it. If I missed something then I wasn't good enough and everybody knew it. So look good and you'll have everything you need.

I guess I took that same sort of belief into every aspect of my life. If I made a mistake that people saw then they would know that I just wasn't good enough and I must be a big sinner. It was always really weird to me to see somebody who I knew wasn't a member that was better than me at something (this was kind of an unconscious thought). How come god didn't make me better at math than them? I'm doing what i'm supposed to! How come I didn't win that track meet? That kid has an ear ring! I didn't really feel superior to others, I just wondered why I wasn't good enough. sounds really dumb when I right it out, but it's true. I started to think about what qualified somebody for exhalation. If you go to the temple you can make it, if you don't then you don't. But wait, ... what in the temple instantly made me a better person than all the millions of other people? Big lightbulb moment here, it's not what you do but who you are that makes you a better person. Going to the temple or reading your scriptures or paying your tithing doesn't necessarily make me a better person, those are all external things. To be a better person you have to work on internal things.

I'm still controlled by fear, that is one big thing for me that is a little hard to overcome. I don't want to appear to be imperfect, somehow I still hold that others opinions make me what I am. well, I understand all that and I'm working though it. It was only after realizing those things that I was able to read about church history with an open mind. So I know the issues. I have been a very spiritually interested person my entire life and i'm afraid to throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak. Right now I feel like any religion is bad for me. The reason for that is that I'm learning how to think for myself and I don't want anybody to tell me how to think. I'm still wondering where to direct my beliefs.

I want to believe in a pure me system, not in a selfish way but a full trust in myself. I want to believe that my body is a symptom of my spirit. I can learn to read myself like a book. My body is physical, it knows what it needs to work and I can listen to that. Things that aren't direct physical needs can lead me to spiritual growth. The bates method for natural eyesight improvement has kind of guided me here. Basically your eyes are fuzzy because you're tense. That tensions comes from an unconscious fear (which I have associated directly with my fear of others perception of me). So a physical symptom of a mental problem. It led me directly to an internal problem and I can grow. I don't know what perfection looks like, but it seems to me that this is a good way to direct everything to trust in myself.

Wow, .... sorry about this long rambled post. If you've made it this far i'm impressed. The whole point in me posting this was to say that i'm afraid to move forward. I don't want to disappoint my dad or my wife. I am broiling inside with tension because i'm not acting. I stopped going to church but i'm still in limbo. I'm just not doing anything. Going with my body belief, I have felt a strong desire or craving to test alcohol (I have never had a drop in my life). This is something that my wife opposes vehemently. I don't want to rock the boat but I want to fully be able to trust myself. So now I'm suffering from inaction for fear of hurting others. I don't want to go off the deep end.... but I do want to follow my own heart and let go of other peoples control over me. ...Maybe I should go see a councilor.... but I feel like I have it figured out and I just want to go!

I've been hanging out stressing for a few weeks now. Why can't I just tell my wife I'm out and move forward?

If you want to overcome fear, you'll have to do some hard things by coming forward to your wife.

Your dad doesn't really need to know. But she does.

It's difficult to let the chips fall where they may. That's one reason for all the fear.

You can't control other TBM's responses to your disbelief.

Good luck.

The vast majority of RFM participants have been through exactly what you're going through. Its why this forum exists.

Welcome, by the way.

You might want to read the bios and other offerings. The discovery that you are not alone is a helpful step toward your ultimate destination. That you've worked up enough courage to post your frustrations and feelings is another sign that you are making progress as you transition.

I do not envy you, but I do salute you. A rough road lies ahead, but no so rough that it can't be overcome.

Mormonism wasn't for me either. I left my family and the cult when I was barely eighteen. It wasn't always fun, but did turn-out to be the best thing I've ever done for myself and the people I chose and still choose to associate with.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Again, you are not alone.

Timothy

I got to the end of your post because I am always very interested in hearing from people in a similar boat to me. There are many others like us to on this site. I haven't really told my wife much, and I haven't told my parents anything at all. I know I will have to eventually, but I am very unsure how to progress.

I drink occasionally today, without my wife's knowledge. I feel bad for it, but I don't have any reason not to. There is no "commandment" not to. There is no authority in my life to prevent me from doing normal, adult, healthy things. I don't believe my wife has any right to dictate what food and drink I partake of, as long as I am not causing her or my family any undue distress. I don't get drunk, I fulfull all my responsibilities as a husband and father.

IMO, one of the essential tasks of adulthood is handing your parents their first major disappointment in you. Little kids want to please their parents. You are no longer a little kid. It is more than time to let them know that you are not completely what they had in mind, and that's okay. They'll adjust to the new you, and they'll get over their disappointment. It may take some time, but they will.

As for your wife, I feel that there are times to compromise with one's partner, and times to assert yourself. You'll have to be the judge of when to exercise each option, but if the outcome affects mainly or only you, that might be a good time to assert yourself.

In terms of religion, give yourself an exploration phase. Read philosophy, read about other religions, read about atheism. Let yourself try on a lot of ideas for size. Allow yourself to accept, reject, or accept *then* reject as you see fit. Make up your own mind about things. Combine and recombine ideas. Develop a comfort level with not knowing for sure.

Sorry that you are in such a difficult state. Here's a few random thoughts based on your post.

Check these articles out. They were helpful for me:
http://packham.n4m.org/atheist2.htm
http://packham.n4m.org/morality.htm
http://packham.n4m.org/atheist4.htm
http://packham.n4m.org/purpose.htm

Check out the church called Unitarian Universalist http://www.uua.org/. I think it may really appeal to you based on what you say you are after. At a very high level the church doesn't dictate or care what you believe (atheist, Christian, etc., it doesn't matter). It just has a few principles like being kind to others.

There is a theory out there that only two feelings motivate humans: fear and desire. With desire it's usually the fear of not getting what we desire. So you are very normal to be largely motivated by fear.

Just a personal aside. I don't think there is anything wrong with drinking alcohol. However for me personally I've decided not to try it because: a) I am very very subject to addiction - I believe there is a good chance that if I were to start with it, I would become an alcoholic - it's not worth the risk to me, b) It would greatly upset my Mormon wife, and c) The smell of it makes me sick.

I'm not seeing why telling them you don't believe would be upsetting to your wife and father based on what you posted. It seems that your father is very open minded and accepting. It seems that if your wife already sees that you aren't attending church and that it wouldn't be much of a surprise that you don't believe in it. I'm not sure what you are saying you need to "act" on? If you are talking about resigning from the church, my personal opinion is that you have no reason to act on it unless you have a compelling personal reason to resign. For me there were several reasons it was personally important for me to resign that outweighed the problems.

If I am wrong and it is difficult for your wife to take, you may have a very difficult path. It took me nearly 3 years before I told my wife (who had very little clue because I was still attending church, was elders quorum president, etc.) We have had and continue to have some very difficult times. Even so we are both glad that I let her know.

I told my husband a year ago and all hell broke loose. After that he's still here. I put my resignation in the mail and the minutes between when I put it in the basket and when the mail room guy picked it up were endless. I checked the mail every day for weeks making sure to get there before anyone else and when the letter came I had jitters and butterflies. I saw members in stores and salons and ducked. I lost friends, but I have never felt more free in my whole life.

I've talked with my wife a little bit already, we had a long talk back in October when I almost left and she worked through actually trying to understand me and not just get mad at me. She would have left me of I up and left the church last year. Now she won't leave. we've kind of settled in to me searching. I feel like I'm in limbo by keeping all doors open, I want to take off my garments and officially say I'm done so that I can move on.

I have more but I'll have to post later

Funny thing is after 20 years of wearing garments I have to wear a white t-shirt underneath now or it feels strange. Hopefully when it gets warmer this spring/summer I'll be able to de-condition myself to wearing the extra t-shirt.

I will probably still wear a white undershirt, if I ever get to that point. I would rather not go all Burt Reynolds-y.

You were told that if you followed all of these rules given by the Mormons that you'd be good.

Then, you figured out that the rules were crap and external appearances or following a bunch of meaningless rules doesn't really do anything for you - which means that now you're trying to figure out your own rules which can be very difficult.

How you are feeling right now is very normal.

I especially relate to your confusion, your desire to try alcohol, and your feeling that religion is no longer for you.

For me, the alcohol/coffee was a rule that was given and that doesn't really make sense. For me, I was trying to construct my own rules and I wanted to figure out how I felt about alcohol and coffee as they worked for ME and not for some rule that I didn't buy into anymore. If your wife won't understand, perhaps trying alcohol right now isn't worth it because your wife is still in the Alcohol Is Of The Devil mindset.

I also felt when I left that religion would no longer be something I was interested in - and I think this was because the Mormon religion is so controlling of your entire life that I just wanted to get away from the whole idea. I found that basic meditation practices and being outside (hiking, going to the beach, etc.) have been much more meaningful to me in a spiritual sense than church ever was. I'm thinking about trying a Unitarian church as they don't care what you believe. However, feeling like I might want to try another organized religious practice has taken me about 5 years. So, if you don't feel like you want to try another church right now (or ever) - don't.

I'd suggest maybe studying some books and learning about different philosophies/faiths to see if anything resonates with you.

Good luck! It's an exciting journey when you figure out the whole world is out there and you're no longer stuck in the mormon box.

If it were all up to you, I'd say jump. But where a marriage is involved, you might need to go slower because you care about her, right? Your wife will be scared to death as you try new things, like removing garments and a drink of alcohol, so find ways to reassure her that you are the same person, that you love her, that your moral standard has not obliterated just because you don't believe in this one church. I think that is something TBMs don't understand sometimes, that if you don't believe the Mormon gospel, you don't believe anything, like being faithful to your spouse, or things like that. The way you treat her as you change will affect your marriage. This is my sappy moment, but love should be more important than religion. That statement should apply to both sides of the argument too, I think, so your rejecting Mormonism and her embracing it, either way, should come after your relationship if you really love each other. Show her that by the way you treat her.

I can relate. Fear of disappointing loved ones is a huge barrier, and a big reason I also stayed in limbo for quite a while. I found an excellent counselor and a few close friends to help me move forward. You can't deny the experience and thoughts you've had, and doing so would mean living a lie. I like your new plan of trusting yourself. You'll find that the more you allow yourself to do that and purge the influence of the church from your mind, the more genuine peace and inspiration you will feel. That's been my experience at least. The struggle, and facing the fear is worth it. Hang in there.

"It's easy to be righteous and worthy, read your scriptures every day, go to church and temple, pay your tithing and you will have your very own holy ghost guide. He'll watch over you and keep you safe from anything that will be bad and only lead you to good."

This is all well and good UNTIL you run into something in life that for all intents and purposes the LDS church has no answers for--and not only no answers, but the wrong answers--and you find your life a complete mess because you believed and lived it. Most of my friends and family all said, "Not Colleen--this could not possibly happen to Colleen."

Mormonism is a good way to live blindly--as long as nothing comes along mess with your sense of 'security'--that false sense of security they offer you.

Run into gay sometime--and then deal with mormonism.

My dad was a lot like your dad--thank God! He listened. He was very upset when my life fell apart and was furious at the leaders for counseling me the way they did. My mother--who was the TBM between the 2--said, "you can be a spiritual person without going to church."

It isn't a matter of holding you back necessarily, but that you are living with a false sense of security. My dad still thought like your dad when he died--but he talked to me a lot about things that bothered him about mormonism, but when you are close to death, it is a whole different ballgame.

Anyway--my point is--you can do it all--EVERY LAST LITTLE ITTY BITTY THING they ask you and there is NO GUARANTEE and there never has been. My parents and friends were also completely blown away when it was "I" who left the church. I was my parents' golden child--never gave them a reason for a minute to worry about anything.

As for alcohol--my family is also very prone to alcoholism and even my nieces and nephews (who all drink--my daughter is the only TBM of the bunch)--were concerned about me trying alcohol because I have a very addictive personality. When I first tried it (my boyfriend tried me out on brandy to make sure I wouldn't turn into a lush--he says)--I just as well drink the NyQuil that I have had to use a lot because I tend to get the flu quite often. YUK! I can stand the sweet drinks, but nothing else. Wine--YUK! I've never liked grape juice as it is. So--all my family's fears came to naught. I don't drink much at all--and I'm also diabetic, so not a good thing anyway. I have yet to have a buzz no matter how much I drink. It just puts me to sleep.

I've been doing all of my posts on my phone which has kept them all shorter (which might be a good thing). I've been working through this for a long time, I've posted a few months back as well. It's terrifying to step out, away from everything I've known and everything I've identified with. (it's been nice to see a source for some of my frustrations) I feel like I'm on the verge a huge change everybody I care about thinks I'm wrong. I'll be alone but I'll finally have myself. Even though I'll still have my wife and family they can't or won't understand me so I can't share myself with them.

I have been, uh.. Desiring alcohol for about 3 years. I can't really describe it and it isn't going away. I don't want to compromise anything with my sweetie but I'm also trying to change me and be guided by me

The unitarian church kind of looks interesting, I'm kind of leary of all organized religion. That looks pretty mild though so I might look into it.

the difference is that NOW you get to make an educated choice for YOURSELF.

I'm going to suggest this book--though you are not gay--but when this guy realized his value and stepped away from his LDS upbringing--even I sat and sobbed because I knew just how he felt.

It is, "Perfect: The Journey of a Gay Mormon." You can find it, I believe, on lulu.com

I was "lucky" in that I was the most religious in my family. It is amazing how freeing it is to finally allow yourself to be YOU no matter the fallout.

May I also say--that "we" used to hide the fact that my ex is gay (obviously I don't anymore). I'd quit mentioning it, but it is the reason I lost belief--so it has had a HUGE IMPACT on my life. BUT--any time someone would find out my ex is gay, I'd have a mini mental breakdown. Then my 14 year old daughter at the time told me she had told all her friends. (I was even invited to be on Oprah to talk to Dr. Phil over this issue, but we were very much in the closet locally at the time and my kids said DEFINITELY NO.) Once my daughter "came out of the closet," then the rest of us felt freer to do so. Now--IT IS SO NICE and so healthy emotionally to not carry this secret with us. My kids are both 26 now and all their friends know their dad is gay. It has actually been very good for all of us. I can't tell you what a huge burden it was to carry. It is also amazing how many people have come to me to tell me their own problems (active mormon neighbors). We live in Hyrum, Utah--by Logan in Cache Valley--so to be completely open about our situation was rather scary, but it has been well worth it. WELL WORTH IT.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2012 09:19AM by cl2.

And I think your wife may think so too.

You have a clear eyed view of who you are and where you are - that's tremendous for anyone. I hope your process of "thinking aloud" here in print and seeing feedback is helpful as you process all that is going on.

I have no advice - only admiration. If you feel like you can do so comfortably, pray about it. Don't use "thees and thous" (the sacred language of prayer - how hokey is that???) I found that helpful when I was first leaving. Just assume that, if there is a god, he or she loves you completely and unconditionally.

That being said, I almost never pray now and I don't miss it. And I am active in a UU church (but our family spent several years of no religion at all detox before getting involved.)

Good luck to you Goat!