I've been following the "Exit Timeline" thread with great interest (http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1312869).

What's amazing to me is that these timelines (and my timeline) seem to mostly have a common theme in that the "shelf" is obliterated nearly instantly. I mean, we're talking DECADES of indoctrination, "spiritual witnesses", friendships, warm/fuzzies, etc. Then a few WEEKS, DAYS, or even HOURS can easily undo all of it.

I mean I really do now KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that TSCC is "false". It's based on real facts and I'm not afraid to look at whatever information is out there, because I'm completely confident in my findings. I'm WAY more confident in what I found in just a few weeks than what I ever had "known" for decades as a TBM.

Anyway... I don't have much more to add other than this being my observation. Maybe it speaks volumes as to how shallow our beliefs really can be.

There is always that straw that finally breaks the camel's back and there is always that one little item that finally rips the screws holding the shelf up right out of the wall.

Once you embrace facts, you are actually choosing yourself over a cult for the first time ever. Valuing reason is valuing yourself. Loving logic means you are engaging your own mind. Once you taste those things there is no way back to subjugation. It is a good feeling. A brilliant feeling actually.

Ecstasy

Very well expressed, blueorchid.

Interesting observation. This was also true for me, something clicks, the speed of thought. I don't think anyone can be forced out -- you must do it on your own (free will choice?)...

Watching the news, I saw where a young woman in Colorado started an online relationship with a Jihadist and became converted to his cause, even willing to die for it. I was struck at how our minds can be so easily controlled and manipulated... I wonder about the missionaries on line. Same thing.

Article:

Asked about her visits to the church, the complaint said Conley told an Arvada police detective, "I hate those people," and, "If they think I'm a terrorist, I'll give them something to think I am."

In December, Conley told FBI agents she had joined the U.S. Army Explorers program so she could be "trained in U.S. military tactics and firearms," according to the complaint. "She said she intended to use that training to go overseas to wage Jihad."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/02/colo-woman-hoped-to-join-jihad-/12120467/

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Question: what would the average member do if the Mormon church turned more militant? Would they, like this woman, be motivated enough to harm others? Mountain Meadows gives me pause. I have a brother member that owns an assault rife, and my own father never had a gun. Where do these ideas come from?

> I have a
> brother member that owns an assault rife, and my
> own father never had a gun. Where do these ideas
> come from?


We have "A Salt Rifle", too:

http://bugasalt.com/

The thing is pretty cool. :-)

Nevin

Many of you probably disagree but I believe that most Mormons, probably close to 90% of them would stop believing in Mormonism had they actually taken the time study both sides. Many of those shelves would collapse within days or even hours of seeing the evidence laid out. However, most of these cult members WILL NOT allow themselves to see the evidence. They are too brainwashed or afraid of the truth and so they CHOOSE to stick their head in the sand instead of taking the chance to face the truth. The implications are too scary for them.

Although I could never bring myself to say that I KNEW the church was true, I did truly BELIEVE that it was true. I was that person who would not even LOOK at anything "anti" because I didn't want to be influenced by "evil."

But, like pretty much everyone here, I DID have a shelf with a few items on it. And once I started to allow myself to takes those items off the shelf and start examining them, it didn't take long for me to come to the conclusion that J.S. was not what he claimed to be. And if J.S. was not what he claimed to be, then the church could not be true. That shelf came crashing down very quickly.

"I believe that most Mormons, probably close to 90% of them would stop believing in Mormonism had they actually taken the time study both sides. Many of those shelves would collapse within days or even hours of seeing the evidence laid out."

That works for some Mormons, but over my 17 years of dealing with these issues, I've learned that for other Mormons, they might study the opposite side, but they choose to stay in the church for one big reason: if they leave, they have to change their lives in major ways. Some people just can't bring themselves to undergo that level of personal upheaval. It can affect marriages, extended families, careers, etc. So for some Mormons, it's easier to prop that shelf up and keep on going.

Most of my relatives who were active Mormons when we left 17 years ago are still active. It was easier for my wife and I to leave because we live 340 miles away from our nearest TBM relative. So we didn't have to deal with all of that constant family interaction and pressure.

I think the shelf falls so quickly because at the very foundation of mormonism is Joseph smith, BofM, and modern day prophecy. When the fact that joe smith was very obviously a liar, con man, and a sex addict, the BofM is fiction, and modern day leaders are not providing any prophecies, all the warm fuzzies and years of indoctrination cannot put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

When one first sees Joseph Smith for what he truly was the rest falls like dominos.

Bingo. Now that you mention it, that resonates with me.

A different metaphor: the fake wall holding the shelf fell over and I realized I'd been living on a movie set.

Maybe The Truman Show?

If you build your shelf in the internet era it is likely to fill up very quickly and collapse. However, for me that did it in the library era, you can have a shelf that has a lot of time to accumulate dust on it.

One night on the internet is worth two weeks on the 2nd floor of the YBU library reading all the weird crap the charlatans from 1827 - 1978 have said. I sometimes think I miss the good old library days, but then I have to sit back and do the calculus on how the present is better.

Looking by retrospect, Mine was maybe 5 years frustration, 2 years of confusion, slight ambivalence (as in it was a divine restoration but completely lost it's way)
3 months how can I make this work, then a month of is this true, followed by an instantaneous "it's really was a lie, I have nothing left, it's b/s)

It was overwhelming and absolute.

I am lucky I did the last 3 months side ny side with my wife and we were together when the shelf was obliterated. Upper case OBLITERATED.

We were watching the Late War stuff together the Chris Johnson conference video last October.

Best experience ever. So lucky. 25 years in, mission, senior callings at the time like bishpric and YWP.

3 teenagers.

We walked within a few weeks...not without a blaze of glory moment too

Your OP is spot on

We live in S.A/ Vic

Even though there were some issues piling up, I thought that they would be resolved over time.

Then I started to do some reading to resolve the problems. BAM! One minute I was mormon, the next minute I was not. I knew in that moment it was all a lie, and I would never be mormon again.

Lucky for me, my husband was in the same space at the same time. My kids soon followed. We washed moism out of our lives forever.

It's like a switch going off in your head -- a reality switch. And once it goes you can't reset it.

The psychology parallels a child with an abusive parent. The truth of the parent's abuse is unthinkable to the child (this is probably a useful survival instinct since generally a bad parent is better than no parent) so the child blames themselves. As an adult if they are brought to face the reality of the abuse in a way that emotionally relives it and the realization takes place quickly (speed of realization being the important factor) an intense feeling of betrayal is experienced and they typically toss the parent out of their lives along with parental parts of their personalities. If the realization is slower it plays out like a slow fizz and often includes embarrassment or shame but is more of a transition than a crisis.

I appreciate the thoughts and analogy. Makes sense...

It was instantaneous. One second I believed, the next I didn't. I remember the moment very well, even though it was more than thirty years ago.

Truth to the truth seeker is like a drug they can get high on instantly! Sure didn't take long for my shelf to fall!

Even as a Young Women I didn't like polygamy and thought it wasn't fair for the women and children to have to share a husband and father. Well, I put it on a shelf.
Why do the Young Men do more fun things? Why do Young Women not do so many fun thing? Why do so many people say that the lds church is a cult? When I was about 14 years old in school (outside the usa) we learned about different religions Muslims, Buddhism, Christianity and they mentioned some cults Mormonism. I was very disturbed by that and asked my seminary teacher about it the next time I saw her and she said that bad people are printing lies.
2013 I was finally ready to do my own research and be open to which ever results I may find. Heck I spend at least 6 hours researching my kids car seat to make sure they are safe but I never took the time to research my own religion.
It took me a few months where from TBM with some question to a I need to leave to cult and resign asap. Happy we found out before our kids got baptized.