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Posted by: saviorself ( )
Date: March 24, 2011 05:09PM

They don't have much to say about the Book of Mormon people. Wonder why that is? <wink, wink>

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/science/25archeo.html

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Posted by: ExMormonRon ( )
Date: March 24, 2011 05:16PM

Because the people of the Book of Mormon were pre-Beavis and Butthead, not Clovis.

Ron

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Posted by: imalive ( )
Date: March 24, 2011 07:12PM

ROTFLMAO

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Posted by: Richard the Bad ( )
Date: March 24, 2011 05:28PM

Really interesting. If, in fact, these are pre-clovis tools, and are precursers to clovis, one of the great riddles concerning the origin of clovis is solved.

However, I've never seen luminescence dating used in this manner. It is usually used for much older geological features. I am sure that it's accuracy on such young dates will be questioned. It will be interesting to see if it holds up.

Thanks for the post,

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: March 24, 2011 07:16PM

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/26/12/2849.full

>mtDNA Data Indicate a Single Origin for Dogs South of Yangtze River, Less Than 16,300 Years Ago, from Numerous Wolves

The implications for this are that there isn't that much "wiggle room" in the timetable on this one, assuming the folks in Siberia brought man's best friend along with them (the oldest dog "remains" in the New World trace back 9,400 years).

This particularly true if the "Berengia Standstill" hypothesis is upheld (suggesting an isolation period of 2,500 years or so of total genetic isolation). Of course there are the single versus multiple migration views (Perego took a huge hit from a fellow in Washington State who noted a "pre-Columbian outlier" found in some Ohio remains involving the D4h3 haplogroup he used to suggest coastal migration).

Simon's reply was that the "dating on the conrol reigions" of mtDNA was less precise than if the entire genome had been sequenced; He characterized the dates as "rubbery." However the entire genomes were sequenced in this one...

>The mean sequence distance to ancestral haplotypes indicates an origin 5,400–16,300 years ago (ya) from at least 51 female wolf founders. These results indicate that the domestic dog originated in southern China less than 16,300 ya, from several hundred wolves.

Genuine "Native American dogs" are possibly "extinct" because Indians preferred European breeds, but pre-Columbian finds have demonstrated they are descended from Eurasian wolves, same as the ones described, although we aren't finding their descendants.

Another interesting bit I found is that "black wolves" are strictly a North American phenomenon, and they may trace their origins to admixture hybrids with dogs brought over in the Berengia migration... The black coloration has survival value for forest wolves, where it's more common, but not with tundra wolves where their numbers are fewer, as one might expect...

Another one..

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_21_162/ai_95107141/

>He and his international partners focused on stretches of DNA from the cells' mitochondria, or powerhouses, which pass from mother to pup. Based on similarities in that genetic material, 95 percent of the dogs that the researchers had sampled tome from just three lineages that seem to have arisen in East Asia, Savolainen and his colleagues say.

>To study New World dogs, Leonard and her colleagues worked with DNA from remains up to 1,400 years old. Thirty-seven came from archaeological sites in Peru, Bolivia and Mexico, and 11, from modern gold mines in the Alaskan permafrost.

Yes, there is considerable controversy about when dogs were domesticated; some still insist they accompanied our ancient grandparents out of Africa, but the DNA science tells us dogs are really Eurasian wolves...

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Posted by: Don Bagley ( )
Date: March 24, 2011 06:43PM

What, no Jewish artifacts?

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