You know, I have been reading a lot of negativity on the forums lately. Now before I get to my point, I’d like to say that I have been negative lately. Hell, we all have a reason to be mad and angry at what the church has taken from us.. has done to us mentally… to our families, relationships (I lost a marriage because of it), pocketbooks, etc. But I would like to point out a few things.

Acting this way has several consequences…mostly it will destroy the things listed above quicker and faster than that church ever did… And you will have no one to blame but yourself. Sure the church was the reason behind it, but you let it run you…See, the cult control is fully in place and is working like it was intended… to control you. People will see you as the church has programed them to… They will say “see, apostasy can never bring you happiness” or some bull like that..You just became their biggest missionary tool to keep people active.

So while we are all healing, keep this in mind. Seek help; don’t let this destroy you, or your relationships. Strive to be an anchor to the real world that others can grab onto.

Not to mention that the TBM lurkers who visit here also read what we say..but they have been told to have a preset view point on what we say.

Now, this silhouette goes back into the shadows. Thanks for being part of this support group. We are all here to heal, and to help lift others up and give hope that they will too find the strength to leave TSCC.

Oh, and politics doesn't help either. So shudup! :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2011 02:21AM by silhouette.

You realize you're repeating the bull crapola the church raised you with about being upbeat all the time... The plygs have raised this to an art form with their "keep sweet" mantra they brainwash their ladies with to keep 'em pregnant and dressed in homespun...

And now you're accusing us of being downright mean-spirited all the time...

There are some huge narcissistic overtones in your pissive-aggressive shots there, bub...

Backed by "because I said so" justification and some PH posturizing and moralizing...

This place isn't going to be all things to all people, particularly "lurking TBM's."

As my ol' AA sponsor used to say, you gotta get the sh*t out before you've got room for the good dirt...

Gonna take a while in your case...

Since you don't know me, let me explain a few things.

-I have never been co-dependent (even with the church).. I have never even had roommates (minus the fact I lived with my ex wife, haha)

-Second, I am grateful for all the support I received out of this forum. Even though I think I eventually would have left, it was a HUGE relief to find this place and know others have walked in my path and was happy in life (something the cult doesn't want you to believe).

-Third I was not attempting to attack anyone. I just noticed a tone in some posts that reminded me of my feeling towards the church as I first left it. I know we all heal and progress at different speeds, I was just cautioning that for some of us (me included) our hatred and negativity can possibly be adding to our problems. Note: It is ok to feel angry and other emotions, but we have to be careful of who we are focusing it at, and in what context...If we aim it at our families, wives, etc we are just adding to the problem.

Last, I threw the point about TBM lurker because this is a support group (at least I believe so). If they see nothing but hatred and anger, then they might be less inclined to look further. I will say that if they were honestly looking and got this far, it won’t make a difference. It is just something my exfather-in-law tried to rub in my face (and manipulated his daughter with) when I left. I don't consider myself fully healed, but I am well on the road there and happy in my life.

Sorry if I came off the wrong way. Just throwing my 2 cents out there…even though I don't know everyone or their situation. I am here to help when I feel capable to (which is why I hardly post!).

People heal/recover in different ways. For me, venting helps me to process all the abuse and shit the church and church members have put me through over the years. I need to work through it and this has been a safe place for me to do it (thus far).

I don't need anyone telling me about how "negativity destroys". The church destroyed me and I'm trying to put back the pieces. And I'm doing it my way.

And I certainly won't sugarcoat my feelings just in case there are TBM lurkers. I don't care what they think. I don't care if I perpetuate the "bitter apostate" lie. I am bitter, and angry, and hurt. But I'm getting over it and this board as been instrumental in helping me get there. I'm here for ME (and to support everyone else recovering from Mormonism as well).

So please, maybe you should just think about that before counseling us as to what level of negativity is destructive around here.

silhouette, I have never seen the level of negativity that I experienced in my childhood. Virtually every aspect of popular culture was described by my ignorant Mormon parents as being "of the Devil." Outside of the church, nothing was right, and everything was suspect.

The radio and the TV would broadcast messages of evil, according to my mother and father. Popular music was engineered by Satan, and it was calculated to encourage sin. Coca Cola was evil, as were coffee and tea. Beer and cigarettes were demonic devices used to enslave "Gentiles." Popular magazines and TV series were "suggestive" whatever the hell that meant.

If you think the exmo board is negative, you haven't lived with negativity. You haven't seen the half of it.

you nailed it for me

silhouette Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Last, I threw the point about TBM lurker because
> this is a support group (at least I believe so).
> If they see nothing but hatred and anger, then
> they might be less inclined to look further. I
> will say that if they were honestly looking and
> got this far, it won’t make a difference. It is
> just something my exfather-in-law tried to rub in
> my face (and manipulated his daughter with) when I
> left. I don't consider myself fully healed, but I
> am well on the road there and happy in my life.

But this board is Recovery from Mormonism.

I'm not interested in protecting some TBM lurker for what they may read here. If a TBM comes here and doesn't like my anger, my humour, my dislike of what that Church taught me then it is for the TBM lurker to deal with.

Some TBM's may come and be less inclined to look further.

And some TBM's may come here and look further.

But the choice is theirs.

Of course they will see anger, and humour, and tears, and positive experiences, and negative experiences.

I don't believe we have the kind of power to drive someway away. The person who comes here makes their own choice.

You know that ancient saying, "When the student is ready the teacher will come."

So when a TBM is ready they will come and start their journey of recovery.

Just my MOO

"oh so shudup:)"

This is not the only board which discusses Mormonism where some people upset others claiming to have all the answers. I was recently called angry, jaded, judgemental, and I fuel the fires of hatred, fear and bigotry. Quite a judgemental person herself, don't ya think???? I'd laugh if it weren't so sad.

What a shame to even be on a board with those who wish to name call, think they are right all the time, etc. We can't keep those types off a board and I wouldn't want to. But I must say I prefer individuals who are respectful of others even though they may have quite a different perspective than they. Rudeness is not accepted well by most people. I know one thing....no one drives me from any board unless I wish to go. So far that is very unlikely. Here is a suggestion...if someone's opinion is so upsetting to you, don't respond if it isn't about you.

...don't respond if it isn't about you."

Wise words, but not so easy to practice. Posts push people's buttons and they DO end up taking taking them personally. I'm reminded of Travis Bickle's classic line, "You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? You talkin' to ME? Then who the hell else are you talkin' to?" imagining a confrontation that would give him a chance to draw his gun.

...on the other, I don't. How's that for ambivalence? ;-)

Next week I will celebrate five years of sobriety. The program with which I found recovery is Women For Sobriety, a secular self-help program, based on 13 statements meant to foster feelings of empowerment and worth, something missing from many womens' lives. The first statement is about accepting ones "life threatening problem" and accepting the responsibility to take control of one's life. The second statement is:

Negativity destroys only myself. My first conscious sober act must be to remove negativity from my life.

I believe it. I really do. However, this does not mean I can't allow myself to feel my feelings over the bullshit messages I was raised with that warped my whole world view, not to mention my self view. To suggest someone needs to slap on a happy face and have a pleasing countenace towards others is *exactly* the kind of minimizing shit the church promotes.

Silhouette, I believe you've meant well. However, I also believe you are trying to still play by the TSCC's rules. You seem to be still subscribing to the stereotype of the "bitter Anti" that totally and completely strips someone of their right to be royally pissed over the abuses they've taken.

I haven't stepped into an LDS church in nearly a decade. It's closing in on two decades since I regularly attended. Yet I still actively have to filter through the messages I was raised with to be able to decide whether I truly believe something or whether I was socialized to believe it.

That whole lie about true joy only being found in within the church set me up big time! I could not believe in the church anymore, yet I still had the deep seated belief about what life would become for me outside of it. I would never truly be happy. Life would be a struggle. It's one thing to logically reject the church, it's an entirely different thing to emotionally reject it. Because I was still emotionally attached I allowed my feelings of worthlessness and powerlessness to prevent me frm making healthy decisions about how to lead my life. if I wasn't going to find joy outside the church, and I couldn't believe in the church anymore, what was the use to good choices? Chug a lug!

So here I sit today with a belief in myself. A belief in the power of my choices. A belief that happiness, and joy, are mine for the creating. And a belief that I cannot let the profound negativity I was raised with destroy me. None of those belief are inspired by that so called fucking church. Those are hard won lessons, therefore, I will not support the notion of negativity being destructive based on the "you know what the church says about that."

Okay if I use it as a bit of "troll spray" against those who would accuse me of hyping that "death cult" AA?

LifeRing is another, but as I understand it, programs like this are largely confined to larger metropolitan areas...

I'll stand on the statement I made above about codependency and control... And for most women, codependency is their basic programming; they learn to use "victimhood" to manipulate the situation around them, and that--usually unconsciously and onknowingly--creates an environment of drama and inertia that stifle growth...

The dishonesty about the control is that it's about us more than others; we control others because we find the feelings their behavior generates to be unacceptable (and often fear producing).

That's a subtle set-up many ladies use to hide in their wine glasses...

And the real issue is trying to stay in the middle of the road; the wisdom of AA's serenity prayer is found there, and ultimately one asks one's self how much legitimate power does one have and how can one husband and use it for healthy ends.

I wish you well...

SL Cabbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay if I use it as a bit of "troll spray" against
> those who would accuse me of hyping that "death
> cult" AA?

I admit, this confuses me. Has there been a debate of some sort that I missed?

Any time anyone mentions AA, a fight breaks out.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,135955,135955#msg-135955

Some of the posts were pulled (I wouldn't have been surprised if mine was, but it didn't happen); one yayhoo likes to troll with that tactic, and mostly ADMIN demonstrates a bit of Christian mercy and deletes him before I flatten him with the ol' police interceptor...

BTW, I gave way to temptation and put up a couple of replies via "blogspot" to the gal running that website that was linked...

There weren't posted even though she claimed to welcome replies...

Just keep doing what you're doing, and you'll get no argument from me on the subject of abstinence and recovery...

Hmm. I didn't get this (or any other) reply in my email and thought this thread had died.

I, obviously, missed that recent thread. Probably a good thing. While I have a great amount of gratitude for WFS and the alternative it provided for me, I don't want to get into any pissing matches about programs. As a woman, and a woman with religion as a contributing factor to her drinking problem, I could not have wrestled both sobriety and figuring out a higher power concept at the same time. I'm grateful I didn't have to.

I admit, I have met some AA folks that are the total stereotype of "Go to AA or FAIL!" and I resent that. I do. It feels way to close to the Mormon lie about happiness. That's just my truth. An even greater truth is that I wish no one the heartache of living in addiction so I would like to support the "whatever it takes" approach but as part of that will never cease to mention alternative methods to the most publicly acknowledged ones. I will hope to do so with respect.

Congrats to you on your many successful years of recovery. I'm going to get there, too. :-)

'We are all here to heal, and to help lift others up and give hope that they will too find the strength to leave TSCC.'

Are we?

I'm here to discuss facts and find out more information about subjects that interest me. I also find some of the discussions, especially the ones with passionate views, very enjoyable.

I'm sure some people are here to heal but aren't you being a little presumptuous?

I think you make a good point. It isn't easy sometimes to avoid letting anger and disappointment with Mormonism color other aspects of our lives. Intense feelings can easily become moods. It takes conscious effort (at least for me) to say "OK, I'm mad and unhappy about this, but *that* is fine and good." For many, if not most of us, Mormonism pervaded our entire life and mood. I can see how it is possible to let that happen if after we are out, beside the fact that generalizing is a common tendency.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2011 08:13PM by robertb.

silhouette Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You know, I have been reading a lot of negativity
> on the forums lately.

Perhaps your negativity is clouding the lense through which you view this board? If you're in a negative state of mind you are more likely only reading and retaining the negative posts that you see hear to justify your current attitude.

Or you could start a more positive themed thread and be the change that you want to see.

Just some thoughts. Personally, if I'm feeling a lot of negativity coming from an online forum, I'll go elsewhere for awhile. Go look at some funny comics or puppies or something.

As for tbm lurkers, they too are going to see whatever they want to see. You could have a really upbeat post filled with lots of positive vibes, facts and all it takes is one negative post in there...guess which one they can choose to focus on?

Things with Mo-people is all about appearances, and I can't help thinkin you might still be stuck in that mode, at least a little bit. Fact is, people DO have a right to their feelings, regardless-a-what the Morg says about it, and sometimes they just need a place to be able to vent, where other folks understand.

Ya know there's a good reason why it's called "venting"... a vent serves to release pressure, to keep something volatile like steam or whatever from building up and causing one big-@$$ explosion!

I'm sayin....

Heat.

Kitchen.

Now relax and I'll share my Beggin-strip with ya.

Here. S'good.

Yer pal,
Reggie, The Pensive, Positive StalkerDog™

The morg was good at triggering guilt when possessing feelings of negativity. This was more about controlling behavior and belief through limiting doubt.

Skepticism was one form of "negativity" I had a lot of. It took me a while, but I found out skepticism is not a character flaw but is fact a virtue. The true skeptic only asks that something have a reasonable basis before they believe it. Sound reasonable?

So it's not about negativity per se. It's about having a journey. Along that journey sometimes the prevailing mood is negativity. Hopefully, our journey eventually makes it way and arrives at peace.

Negativity can be bad. For example, stewing over things that we have no control over. We need to let those things go. Much of unhappiness is from our refusal to accept things as they are.

One thing that Mormons are always taught is that leaving the church makes you miserable. When you meet a happy exmo it doesn't make sense.

If you really want to mess with the faithful, always be nice and cordial. Be the one to extend the handshake, be the first to smile. And it is true also that although the church has caused many of us deep and slow-healing pain, trying to be positive makes it easier to cope.

Now If I could just take my own advice...

However, this Fall I took some visits with a therapist and it turns out that I've been mad as hell all summer, at it was apparent to everyone but me. It really helped to get these issues of betrayal and rejection out in the open and to discuss them.

I never really had any problem with members except when they would attack or actively avoid us. So it isn't a problem to be friendly to people who were sorta like friends.

Besides messing with their minds, the most important reason to be kibnd and nice to members (besides as a decent human being) is that if they see that you are happy outside of the church, they just might get up the courage to ask you the question that plagues many active members.

Sometimes we need someone on the outside to point out how angry we are.

However, we do need a place and ways to express our anger as well.

It's complicated.

Work is being done with software to assist people track moods throughout the day and week and chart them with annotations. It can be done with a cellphone and Twitter. People are more willing to do it than doing it manually. It's reported to be very helpful in evening out moods. Having feedback is very helpful. It's something I'm looking into for myself and people I work with.

"pissive-aggressive" is the best diagnosis I've ever heard!!

Think it will show up in the DSM-V? One can only hope. . .

I'm pretty sure I stole that one, but I don't remember from whom... It's doubtless made the rounds in clinical circles...

I'm glad you appreciated the accuracy... Having done a "lot of work" on that issue, at least to the point where I understand how it affects others, often negatively. I do try to recognize I'm making a choice if I opt for such a behavior, and there are probably more functional approaches much of the time...

I recall a mentor of mine who noted, however, that to effectively deal with P/A's (and not surrender one's "personal power), that one had to "out P/A" them (i.e. "That sounds like you've made your choice. We'll have to see what the court thinks about the subject").

Speak softly and be willing to be a big prick...

That one I modified from another teacher of mine...

The important thing, as I see it, is to have a number of choices, beyond those from one's dysfunctional upbringing... Then one can act accordingly...

I wonder if "silouette" is able to perceive the passive/agressive nature of his/her control moves and the underlying anger (probably displaced fear of approval, but that's just a guess).

Sure, it makes sense to be polite and kind to other folks, to greet 'em with a smile. Do it to Mos to drive em nutz...

But you also need to let out the negative feelings, and have a safe place to vent.

I say balance.

Yer Pal,
Reggie
The If.I.Was.On.Jersey.Shore.I'd.Be.The.Bituation.StalkerDog.