http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkL9KCBuoNU&feature=grec_index

John and Shawn go at it on Shawn's call in talk show. Watching this makes me think of Crank Yankers.

Most priceless quote? On the subject of the Word of Wisdom, Shawn talks about how Joseph Smith occasionally imbibed.

TBM John: "How do you know it wasn't grape juice?"

Shawn: "Does grape juice lift your spirits?"

TBM John: "...It can..."

John pretty much gets pwned... LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2011 10:44AM by knotheadusc.

I've long thought many members who know the truth about JS can dismiss the problems because "it was a different time." The statement about wine being grape juice perfectly illustrates this. This was the 1840's for gawd's sake, nobody called wine "grape juice."

I've also seen mormons defend the violence and lawlessness of JS and BY's day by saying every church had it's problems when it was getting started, and usually cite the Catholics. Um but the Catholic church started in the 1st century AD. That really was a different time. The mormon church wasn't started until the 19th century in a country that was civilized with law enforcement and the printing press. Doncha think the real church of god would reflect the progress humanity has made in those 18 centuries in between? Or at least not regress?

How does one challenge the typical mormon belief that JS and BY lived in ancient times?

You're right, Lillium. The LDS church just isn't that old. How a Mormon can confuse 19th century wine with grape juice is beyond me. Let's be real. Joseph Smith drank alcohol and the WoW is really more about control than health. If it were really about health, members wouldn't ignore the advice about eating meat sparingly and really avoiding caffeine (ie; eschewing chocolate, cola, and medications that include caffeine like Midol and Excedrin). I know the WoW actually says to avoid hot drinks, not caffeine... so why do Mormons drink herbal teas, hot cocoa, hot cider and soup?

I don't agree with all of Shawn's videos. I think he's some kind of Christian evangelist, but I like what he does in this one.

was 'grape juice' generally available in the 19th century?
the stuff we have today is usually either loaded with preservatives or is packaged in a sterile atmosphere, and has a limited shelf life.