My daughter wants to become mormon even after reading all of this. What should I do? She is quite intelligent and I am so surprised she is interested. Actually she goes to school in a mormon dominated city so I guess i shouldn't be. I'm desperate for advice!

Then talk with her (not at her) about the validity of those reasons.

Please hurry, she is having dinner with her new mormon friends and their family. I need some topics that would redirect her intent.

I sugest you stop talking shit about mormonism and investigate with her, asking pointed questions along the way.

I SUGGEST you learn how to spell.

Your daughter is likely wanting to join because you don't want her to join. I suspect your panicked approach over the last, say, seventeen years has added fuel to that fire more than once!

Good parents know how to redirect the intent of a 17 year old by gaining their kid’s trust and respect well before they turn 17.

Wine country girl's spelling has no bearing on the matter. I suggest you learn some parenting skills -- rapidly!

Timothy



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2010 11:54AM by Timothy.

We don't control our children, we lead, guide and support them.
What if your daughter were dating a guy she says she wants to marry and you don't want her to marry him? Do you go off on her about how awful he is? NO! You be her friend and confidant so that when she does come to her senses, she has a safe haven of love and understanding to go to.

Think about someone going to the police, tourist info center, a neighbor, or support group for advice but using the time and resources to correct the grammar and pronunciation of those offering to help.

Perhaps your daughter would be willing to put the baptism on hold for six months while you study this together. Tell you she can do this with your good wishes and you might consider joining with her if the two of you find out mormonism is just a nice mainstream Christian religion with no embedded cultism, strange beliefs, or blatant controdictions.

Thank you AmlDarkNow?

I agree with these references. They were a great help to me. I think you daughter is attracted to the social climate presented by her peers. Even if she joined, I think she would eventually leave it. Its such a difficult religion to live, and once she gets into college - I'm bettin' she find other friends. Steer her away from YBU.

WCG is right. Adopt a concerned but curious attitude. Tell her that you would be less likely to oppose if she considers all sides of a question, no matter the source and that you will do the same.

Ask her for a list of three things that MUST be true for Mormonism to be what it claims. Consider each claim in turn, again making sure to consider POVs from what the Mormon's will claim are anti-Mormon sources. (You can be sure they've already warned her against "anti-Mormons". That is hard to counter, but do your best.)

Do not give or accept ultimatums. You or she will end up backed into a corner and that won't go well.

Above all, continue to express your unconditional love for her as your daughter.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

Thank you, I will.

From a post I did earlier this year:

"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." -- Thomas Paine, one of the Founding Fathers of the United States of America, intellectual, philosopher, and writer.

One of the best ways of cracking open Mormons' 'faith' is to reveal to them the fact that Joseph Smith (JS) was a liar, manipulator, adulterer and pedophile.

The LDS Church's section summary for D&C 132, the 'revelation' on polygamy written (down) by JS just over 166 years ago, says:

"Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501–507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831."

(ref. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132)

According to LDS scripture, two key polygamy "principles" were:

i. A Mormon priesthood holder could desire and marry only virgins who were "vowed to no other man" (i.e., not betrothed to a fiancée, or married).
ii. The first wife (Emma, in JS' case) had to give her consent to the plural marriage.

The scripture in question was D&C 132:61:

"And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else."

(ref. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132/61#61)

In the case of 11 women that 'prophet' and Mormon Church president Joseph Smith made his plural wives, they were already vowed to their husband, and as married women, certainly not virgins (ref. http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/).

"...for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else." The 11 women belonged to their husband.

JS committed adultery at least 11 times (12, actually, when you include his extra-marital affair with teenager Fanny Alger, servant girl in the Smith home; ref. http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/02-FannyAlger.htm).

The LDS Church has a partial list of the married women, single women, and teenage girls that JS made his plural wives on the church's genealogy website at http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp

Enter Smith's first and last name, birth year (1805) and birth place (Vermont, United States). Click on Search. Then click on the underlined Joseph Smith (Ancestral File 1). Scroll down to see the partial list of his plural wives. Note when he (at age 37) married Helen Mar Kimball (May 1843) and her age by clicking on her name (she was just 14).

JS' marriage to Fanny Alger can be viewed on the church's FamilySearch.org website by entering her first and last name, marriage year to JS (1835) and selecting "United States" and "Ohio" from the drop-down menus, and clicking on Search, then continuing from there.

Why did Joseph Smith make married women his plural wives - committing adultery in the process - when the Lord forbade it, and did so not just once or twice, but 11 times? Why wasn't he excommunicated for adultery?

The Mormon Church and LDS 'prophets' have taught for generations that adultery is a 'sin' next to murder and any church member who has committed adultery does not have the Holy Ghost with him/her and cannot receive revelation from God.

JS disobeyed the 'revealed' word of God (directly to him, no less) every time he desired, pursued and married a married Mormon woman. In the case of at least one of them, Sylvia Lyon (married to Windsor Lyon), JS fathered her daughter:

“On January 27, 1844 her [Sylvia’s] only surviving child, Philofreen, also died. At this time, Sylvia was eight months pregnant with her fourth child, Josephine Rosetta Lyon. Josephine later wrote, “Just prior to my mothers death in 1882 she called me to her bedside and told me that her days were numbered and before she passed away from mortality she desired to tell me something which she had kept as an entire secret from me and from all others but which she now desired to communicate to me. She then told me that I was the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith”. (ref. http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/08-SylviaSessionsLyon.htm)

In May 1843, JS made a 14-year-old, two 17-year-olds and a 19-year-old his plural wives. The 14-year-old, Helen Mar Kimball, was his youngest-yet plural wife, as the genealogy data on the list of JS' plural wives on FamilySearch.org shows.

One wonders why, of all the single women in Nauvoo who were in their 20s and 30s, JS pursued and married teenage girls young enough to be his daughters and other men's wives.

On July 12, 1843, just two months after JS married the teenage girls mentioned above, he wrote down a 'divine' death threat ("threat of destruction") directed at his first and only legal wife, Emma (who was Relief Society president) if she didn't accept his plural wives, remain with him, "cleave unto" him, and accept polygamy. D&C 132:52 and 54:

52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those [plural wives] that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure [virgins] before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law [polygamy].

(ref. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132/52#54)

How extraordinarily convenient for JS that the Lord was willing to turn a blind eye to his adultery (no rebuke, no revelation that he should be excommunicated), and back him up in his practice of polygamy by threatening to kill (destroy) Emma if she didn't get on JS' polygamy 'wagon' pronto!

According to the 'revelation' on polygamy that JS wrote down on July 12, 1843, the reason for plural marriage was to get virgins pregnant so that they would bear children, thereby increasing God’s glory:

“But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified.”

(ref. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132/63#63)

In JS' day, the only way for Mormon women and teenage girls to "bear the souls of men" was to become pregnant through sexual intercourse (human artificial insemination wasn't developed until the 1940s).

Gaining access to females who could "multiply and replenish the earth" was important to JS. In the case of 16-year-old Lucy Walker, whose mother died after the Walker family converted to Mormonism and moved to Nauvoo in the spring of 1841, he separated the teenage girl from her father (by sending him away on a 2-year mission to the Eastern United States) and her surviving siblings (her sister, Lydia, had died only months before of “brain fever”) by placing her siblings with families in Nauvoo and ‘inviting’ the unsuspecting girl to live in the home of ‘the Prophet’ (himself).

“While living in the Smith home, Lucy remembers: “In the year 1842 President Joseph Smith sought an interview with me, and said, ‘I have a message for you, I have been commanded of God to take another wife, and you are the woman.’ My astonishment knew no bounds. This announcement was indeed a thunderbolt to me...He asked me if I believed him to be a Prophet of God. ‘Most assuredly I do I replied.’...He fully Explained to me the principle of plural or celestial marriage. Said this principle was again to be restored for the benefit of the human family. That it would prove an everlasting blessing to my father’s house.”

“What do you have to Say?” Joseph asked. “Nothing” Lucy replied, “How could I speak, or what would I say?” Joseph encouraged her to pray: “tempted and tortured beyond endureance until life was not desirable. Oh that the grave would kindly receive me that I might find rest on the bosom of my dear mother...Why – Why Should I be chosen from among thy daughters, Father I am only a child in years and experience. No mother to council; no father near to tell me what to do, in this trying hour. Oh let this bitter cup pass. And thus I prayed in the agony of my soul.”

Joseph told Lucy that the marriage would have to be secret, but that he would acknowledge her as his wife, “beyond the Rocky Mountains”. He then gave Lucy an ultimatum, “It is a command of God to you. I will give you untill to-morrow to decide this matter. If you reject this message the gate will be closed forever against you.”

“Lucy married Joseph on May 1, 1843. At the time, Emma was in St. Louis buying supplies for the Nauvoo hotel. Lucy remembers, “Emma Smith was not present and she did not consent to the marriage; she did not know anything about it at all.”’ (ref. http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/23-LucyWalker.htm)

Not informing Emma of his latest plural marriage and first obtaining Emma’s consent was a violation of the Lord’s commandment to JS: “…if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent...for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.”

(ref. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132/61#61).

Secretly marrying Lucy Walker was not the first time that JS did not obtain Emma’s consent (she discovered her husband and teenage servant girl Fanny Alger having sex in the barn and complained to Mormon Apostle Oliver Cowdery, Joseph’s second cousin and BoM scribe, about her husband’s extra-marital affair; Fanny was sent away by Emma because the teenage girl was “was unable to conceal the consequences of her celestial relation with the prophet”, in other words, Fanny’s swelling womb; ref. http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/02-FannyAlger.htm).

2. In the BoM, in Jacob 2:24, it says:

"Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord."
(ref. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/jacob/2/24#24)

However, in the 'revelation' on polygamy that Joseph Smith wrote down on July 12, 1843, it says (in verse 1):

"Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines"
(ref. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132)

How is it that in the BoM, the Lord, who according to scripture is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, condemned as "abominable" the practice of David and Solomon of having wives and concubines, but then contradicted himself in the 'revelation' on polygamy to JS by saying he "justified" (i.e., approved of) the practice?

Answer: When JS WROTE the BoM prior to its publication in 1830, he had only one wife: Emma. But in July 1843, when he wrote down the 'revelation' on polygamy that supposedly came from 'the Lord' (into his mind), he had several plural wives (ref. http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/). In July 1843, Joseph Smith had forgotten what he wrote about David and Solomon and their practice of having wives and concubines 13+ years earlier.

3. Quote in LDS Apostle Russell Nelson's article, "A Treasured Testament", in the July 1993 Ensign (the article is online at www.lds.org; use the Search function to find it):

"Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man."

Why hasn't the LDS Church taught members and potential converts about Smith's 'magical'-rock-and-hat BoM 'translation' technique? The answer is obvious: Who would remain a member and who would join if they knew the truth?!

Why were the gold plates even needed, since Joseph Smith's 'peep' stone clearly did the job as far as 'translating' the BoM is concerned?! The huge problem is that it says in the BoM (and LDS 'prophets' have taught for generations) that 'the Lord' commanded BoM 'prophets' to keep an account of what was going on during their lives as well as teachings and doctrines.

But according to the quote in Nelson's article, there was no gold plate in JS' hat, only the 'magical' rock ('seer' stone) that mysteriously emitted "something resembling parchment" upon which one character at a time would appear. There are 1,150,219 characters in the BoM, which means that it took JS nearly a year (at eight hours per day) of putting his face in his hat and calling out the characters to his scribe to 'translate' the BoM. Why don't church pictures show him doing so?

4. A Seer Stone and a Hat - "Translating" the Book of Mormon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPnu0bx3oWg

5. For generations, a fundamental Book of Mormon (BoM) 'truth' was the following: "Wherefore, it is an abridgment of the Record of the People of Nephi; and also of the Lamanites; written to the Lamanites, which are a remnant of the House of Israel;" (ref. http://www.inephi.com/1.htm).

However, in light of DNA evidence of the past 20 years that has consistently shown that the ancestors of Native Americans came from northeast Asia and not from ancient Israel/Judea, as described in the BoM, the LDS Church has officially abandoned its 'truth' - taught to millions of church members and potential converts since JS' day - that American Indians are Jewish in origin (via Laman and Lemuel, who came from Jerusalem with Lehi, Sariah, Laman, Lemuel, and other Jewish family members).

Here is what the Introduction of 19th- to 20th-century editions of the BoM, including the 1981 edition that many Latter-day Saints living today used in church and at home, said (emphasis in capital letters is mine):

"The Book of Mormon is a volume of holy scripture comparable to the Bible. It is a record of God’s dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains, as does the Bible, the fulness of the everlasting gospel.

The book was written by many ancient prophets by the spirit of prophecy and revelation. Their words, written on gold plates, were quoted and abridged by a prophet-historian named Mormon. The record gives an account of two great civilizations. One came from Jerusalem in 600 B.C., and afterward separated into two nations, known as the Nephites and the Lamanites. The other came much earlier when the Lord confounded the tongues at the Tower of Babel. This group is known as the Jaredites. After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are the PRINCIPAL ancestors of the American Indians."

Here is what JS wrote in March 1842 in a letter to John Wentworth, editor and proprietor of the Chicago Democrat newspaper:

"In this important and interesting book the history of ancient America is unfolded, from its first settlement by a colony that came from the Tower of Babel at the confusion of languages to the beginning of the fifth century of the Christian era. We are informed by these records that America in ancient times has been inhabited by two distinct races of people. The first were called Jaredites and came directly from the Tower of Babel. The second race came directly from the city of Jerusalem about six hundred years before Christ. They were principally Israelites of the descendants of Joseph. The Jaredites were destroyed about the time that the Israelites came from Jerusalem, who succeeded them in the inheritance of the country. The principal nation of the second race fell in battle towards the close of the fourth century. The remnant are the Indians that now inhabit this country."

(ref. http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=c26876e6ffe0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD)

Here is what the LDS Church is now saying (emphasis in capital letters is mine):

"The Book of Mormon is a volume of holy scripture comparable to the Bible. It is a record of God’s dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains, as does the Bible, the fulness of the everlasting gospel.

The book was written by many ancient prophets by the spirit of prophecy and revelation. Their words, written on gold plates, were quoted and abridged by a prophet-historian named Mormon. The record gives an account of two great civilizations. One came from Jerusalem in 600 B.C., and afterward separated into two nations, known as the Nephites and the Lamanites. The other came much earlier when the Lord confounded the tongues at the Tower of Babel. This group is known as the Jaredites. After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are AMONG the ancestors of the American Indians."

(ref. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/introduction)

"...among the ancestors of the American Indians" clearly implies that there were other ancient people(s) who were also the ancestors of Native Americans, which is, of course, exactly what scientists concluded (no evidence exists to support the Mormon idea of Jewish ancestry of American Indians).

The HUGE problem for the LDS Church is that for the BoM to be true, the ancestors of Native Americans have to be Jewish/come from ancient Israel/Jerusaleum, as described in the BoM."

The chief problem with Mormonism is that it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Science has proven that the 'keystone' of the LDS religion, the Book of Mormon, is a work of fiction (see the links below for details). Mormonism founder Joseph Smith, Jr. repeatedly failed to relate and even write a reasonably consistent version of his so-called 'First Vision' experience (see the link below). JS kept getting his age, the place, what he saw, and other major elements of the 'First Vision' wrong. Rational people don’t believe a ‘witness’ who tells versions of their ‘true’ story that conflict with versions previously told by the individual. People who won’t use their critical thinking and scrutinize what they’ve been told often do believe ‘charismatic’ types.

According to LDS Church presidents Ezra Benson and Gordon Hinckley in Gen. Conf. talks in Oct. 1986 and Oct. 2002 (online at www.lds.org), Mormonism stands or falls on the BoM being true (historically and in all other respects) and the First Vision having taken place (as per the official church version that has been taught to millions of members and potential converts). The facts are clear: Mormonism falls (the websites linked below provide many of these facts).

All religions, including Mo-ism, are the product of people's imagination (Joseph Smith, in the case of the Mormon religion, with 'spiritual' ideas from other Mormon 'prophets' being layered on during the past 7-8 generations since 1830).

You're not obliged to mentally regurgitate other people's 'spiritual' ideas, what they believe and feel is 'true', and demonstrable nonsense (there's lots of it in cultic Mormonism!).

You have the right to ALWAYS think for yourself and scrutinize what other people, including adult Mormons, have told you is 'true', 'right', 'the will of God', etc. You also have the right to reject all beliefs - religious or otherwise - that are not supported by the facts.

Latter-day Saints fail to understand that truth is independent of what the LDS Church says and what Mormons believe is 'true' when their 'truths' are not supported by solid evidence. Very importantly, their emotions - and emotion-based beliefs - are not an INFALLIBLE guide to the truth.

Here are very good resources that you can study to educate yourself about Mormonism and its history:

Early Mormonism and the Magic World View (by former BYU history professor Dr. D. Michael Quinn): http://www.amazon.com/Early-Mormonism-Magic-World-View/dp/1560850892

The Changing World of Mormonism: http://www.utlm.org/navonlinebooks.htm

To Those Who Are Investigating Mormonism: http://packham.n4m.org/tract.htm

PBS FRONTLINE + American Experience: "The Mormons" (4-hour documentary film aired on PBS in '07 that includes excerpts from interviews with President Gordon Hinckley, Mormon Apostles Boyd Packer and Jeffrey Holland and member of the First Quorum of the Seventy and church historian Marlin Jensen): http://www.pbs.org/mormons/

101 Doubts about Mormonism: http://packham.n4m.org/101.htm

Contradictions in Mormonism: http://packham.n4m.org/contra.htm

Rethinking Mormonism: http://www.i4m.com/think/

Joseph Smith's Changing First Vision Accounts: http://www.irr.org/mit/first-vision/fvision-accounts.html

Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church (by genetic researcher Dr. Simon Southerton, a former LDS bishop): http://www.amazon.com/Losing-Lost-Tribe-Native-Americans/dp/1560851813

"DNA vs. The Book of Mormon" (ref. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svfxSscxh8o)

Book of Mormon Tories (plagarisms in the BoM involving two American history books, one published in 1789 and the other in 1805, that were available to Joseph Smith): http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/magazine/pmm_article_full_text/211

The Lost Book of Abraham (more proof that Joseph Smith lied about his 'translation' ability): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcyzkd_m6KE

The 'motherlode' of historical info. about Mormonism (including many quoted official church sources, and their references): http://www.utlm.org/navtopicalindex.htm

Digital photograph of the title page of the 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon that shows that Joseph Smith was the author and proprietor (he claimed he was the 'translator' of the ancient gold plates): http://www.inephi.com/1.htm

The Untold Story of the Death of Joseph Smith: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvSo0ate4tM&feature=related

‘Faith-disrupting’ teachings and statements of Mormon ‘prophets’ (after Joseph Smith): http://mormonthink.com/prophetsweb.htm#apostleadmits

How Mormonism 'programs' people and affects their self-esteem: http://members.shaw.ca/blair_watson/

40 fears created by LDS 'programming': http://members.shaw.ca/blair_watson/fears.htm

The list of Joseph Smith's wives is frightening. This is NOT romantic.

This happened to me. My daughter began getting pestered by a friend at 17...she shook it off by 18, then allowed them back in by 19...at 19 and a half she really told them she wanted no more pressure from them....then we (ex and I) had a crisis.... divorce and at 20 she let them really get to her. They do not give up.They go for the vulnerable.

She ended up marrying a Mormon- he was a jackmormon...not active at the time but hung out with Mormons in the 18-23 yr. group. They got engaged in less than a yr. and married in 60 days....civilly. Does she know a Temple wedding means you can not see her marry??? All I can say is I feel for you. Please have her read every word on this site from former Mormons. My daughter would not read books I offered her in '02-'04. She refused. Ask your daughter why a religous group would tell you not to do research. That is so bizarre. And my daughter was and is extremely bright too, but she was told not to research.

Now she has a baby and I fear for him...he is so adorable and is going to be brainwashed. I can only hope she sees the light very soon.

I still have a good relationship with my daughter....we do not talk about it and she is clear on how I stand...I did not go to her baptism because she had been baptized in our church and i will not recognize a baptism in a cult. I live in the city too and some Mormons in high schools are very much involved in love bombing and recruiting. So sad. They bash other religions and this is very upsetting to me. We raised her with kindness. I also did not go to her "after temple" party--- three yrs. after her civil marriage she went there. I said it was not an occassion for me to celebrate.Don't give up getting through to her as long as she is not engaged. After that it is over. Then they must figure it out for themselves. Do not allow the baptism at age 17....she may do it at 18 on her own like my friend's kid did. But then you had nothing to do with it. Good luck my friend.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2010 11:17PM by honestone.

honestone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This happened to me. My daughter began getting
> pestered by a friend at 17...she shook it off by
> 18, then allowed them back in by 19...at 19 and a
> half she really told them she wanted no more
> pressure from them....then we (ex and I) had a
> crisis.... divorce and at 20 she let them really
> get to her. They do not give up.They go for the
> vulnerable.
>
> She ended up marrying a Mormon- he was a
> jackmormon...not active at the time but hung out
> with Mormons in the 18-23 yr. group. They got
> engaged in less than a yr. and married in 60
> days....civilly. Does she know a Temple wedding
> means you can not see her marry??? All I can say
> is I feel for you. Please have her read every word
> on this site from former Mormons. My daughter
> would not read books I offered her in '02-'04. She
> refused. Ask your daughter why a religous group
> would tell you not to do research. That is so
> bizarre. And my daughter was and is extremely
> bright too, but she was told not to research.
>
> Now she has a baby and I fear for him...he is so
> adorable and is going to be brainwashed. I can
> only hope she sees the light very soon.
>
> I still have a good relationship with my
> daughter....we do not talk about it and she is
> clear on how I stand...I did not go to her baptism
> because she had been baptized in our church and i
> will not recognize a baptism in a cult. I live in
> the city too and some Mormons in high schools are
> very much involved in love bombing and recruiting.
> So sad. They bash other religions and this is very
> upsetting to me. We raised her with kindness. I
> also did not go to her "after temple" party---
> three yrs. after her civil marriage she went
> there. I said it was not an occassion for me to
> celebrate.Don't give up getting through to her as
> long as she is not engaged. After that it is over.
> Then they must figure it out for themselves. Do
> not allow the baptism at age 17....she may do it
> at 18 on her own like my friend's kid did. But
> then you had nothing to do with it. Good luck my
> friend.


Wow. You didn't attend your daughter's baptism or wedding reception? That is cold. That probably hurt her so much. Bravo mother of the year.

I would never do that to my child. There are some things that are more important than being right. But glad you got to make your point at the expense of your daughter's feelings.

To the OP - please don't go about it this way. As a daughter who has been on the receiving end of this kind of treatmen, it is so painful and damaging.

goldenrule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow. You didn't attend your daughter's baptism or
> wedding reception? That is cold. That probably
> hurt her so much. Bravo mother of the year.
>
> I would never do that to my child. There are some
> things that are more important than being right.
> But glad you got to make your point at the expense
> of your daughter's feelings.

The daughter was married civilly first three years prior to the temple, if you go back and re-read. The mother did not attend the party after the temple sealing. She also stated that her daughter was baptised Christian many years ago and she did not attend the Mo baptism because she did not recognize baptism into a cult. She also further stated that her and her daughter have a good relationship. Daughter's conversion equally hurt Mom, so it goes both ways. They seem to have worked through that.

Let me rephrase this one for you:

Wow. You didn't allow your mother to attend your wedding and left her sitting outside? That is cold. That probably hurt her so much. Bravo daughter of the year.

I would never do that to my mother. There are some things that are more important than being right. But glad you got to make your point at the expense of your mother's feelings.

I obviously don't know the particulars of your daughter, but I can easily imagine A): the natural independent/searching streak of someone that age (actually meaning she wants to be "independent" from you and her home base by being accepted & paised by another group) and B): no amount of evidence to the contrary will convince her that these great, loving, clean-living new friends could possibly belong to a nutball religion. And, of course, there's some good lookin' mormon boys.....

Asking the simple question "I don't understand a religion that will not allow me to see my own daughter get married" might help the situation.

Mormons are not dishonest people...their leaders teach them to be dishonest. If the missionaries had told me up front that my family would not be permitted to come to my wedding I would have walked out on them. As it was I was totally brainwashed by the time my wedding came around. The only saving grace was that my family were 2000 miles away and I was in Utah so it wasn not so awkward.

Still I look at my brothers wedding pictures with all the family gathered around and I see my wedding pictures with strangers I have not seen since the day I was married. I hope my wife and I can have a second wedding sans Mormonism.

Mormonism....isn't about the Church?

Tell her there are plenty of converts on here that regret it, myself included. Tell her if she converts old men are going to ask her if she likes to touch herself, and tell her how to dress.

Tell her she will have to lie about watching R rated movies also.

Tell her she will have to draw symbols on her magic underwear

Maybe they are neat people and she likes them and wants to fit in. I can understand that. At her age, friendships are so important.

But the church isn't what it claims to be. It's NOT true. FAR from it. And it meddles way too much in people's lives and messes with their ability to reason and make decisions for themselves. It doesn't build independence that young adults need to develop at her age.

You are the parent. And she needs your consent to join. If my kids wanted to convert, I'd tell them that they can join when they are 18. I wouldn't take a hard line or push too hard against the church, but just tell them that they just have to wait.

That would give them time to mature a bit and think things through.

And I'd encourage them to read a LOT about church history and study the scriptures and ask LOTS of questions.


One other simple thought . . . your daughter was 14 just a few years ago. She knows 14-yr-old boys, right? Does she REALLY believe that God would choose a 14-yr old boy to appear to? I think not.

As someone who joined the church as a teenager I can assure you that all the crap doctrine and history don't matter as long as the church is fulfilling some need in her life that isn't being met.

For me, my father abandoned our family and my parents were getting a divorce. My parents were so preoccupied fighting eachother that us kids were left to fend for ourselves.

Plus, the boy I liked was Mormon and so were all the popular kids since I grew up smack in the MorCor. They started to take great interest in me once I started investigating the church. I felt so special and loved. And I really needed that attention at that particular time on my life. Also, I feel madly in love with my 30 ye old Argentine mishie. Thank God he was there or I probably would have been sleeping around because of my daddy issues.

Anyway, the point of my long drawn out story is that none of the things that drove me away from the church as an adult would have mattered to me as a teen. It served a specific purpose for me.

I would try to get to the bottom of WHY she wants to join instead of bombarding her with all those websites.

Just my 2 cents :) Good luck!

ETA: I just wanted to add that the Morg goes after the vulnerable like sharks to blood in the water. That's what happened to me.

But I wouldn't push too hard against it. It will just cause her to rebel against you and her Mormon friends and their parents will make you the enemy. Afterall, going against your family for the church is a praiseworthy and righteous thing to do. Don't give them the satisfaction. Encourage your daughter to ask questions and think objectively and critically about the religion. But I think forbidding and being unapproachable about it is a grave mistake.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2010 04:25AM by goldenrule.

"I can assure you that all the crap doctrine and history don't matter as long as the church is fulfilling some need in her life that isn't being met"

Tell that to the Branch Davidians and followers of Jim Jones.

Timothy

Timothy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I can assure you that all the crap doctrine and
> history don't matter as long as the church is
> fulfilling some need in her life that isn't being
> met"
>
> Tell that to the Branch Davidians and followers of
> Jim Jones.
>
> Timothy

I think you misinterpreted what I said. It's not that the history and doctrine don't matter. They do. That's why I left as an adult. But as a teen it wouldnt have mattered because of the social benefits I was getting.

I think the church is toxic and destructive, particularly for young women. I'm just saying that pointing out the flaws in the doctrine doesn't really matter to a teenager if they're not joining ultimately for the doctrine. I don't think anyone joins for that reason. I'm wondering what's going on in this girl's life that the LDS church/community seems appealing to her. If I were her mother I would try to get to the bottom of that first.

She no doubt believes the family-oriented crap they dish out. A young woman attracted to that has a good heart. I suggest you appeal to that vision she has and match it up to reality. The reality is that she will have baby after baby and be expected to raise them practically alone as her husband will be gone, gone, gone as he serves the church using the time he could have been spending with her and their children. Use anecdotes from the internet where so many of us have exposed a live where both parents are harnessed as slaves to work for a huge corporation to the DETRIMENT of their family. What good is it to have a glossy Family Home Evening manual when Daddy isn't home because he's Home Teaching. You know the list--your daughter has NO IDEA the actual life she will be leading. She only sees the romanticized "our church will help you be a better mother" image. Here's a story from my own experience:

If my husband couldn't do his church job because he was called back to work, the Bishop told me I would be expected to fill in for him. We didn't have the money to hire a babysitter and I had to leave several tots with a middle schooler while I filled in for their Dad. The Bishop knew my children were home alone and DID NOT CARE. The needs of the Church are more important than even the safety of the children.

An example from a friend's life: He was a paramedic on a Scouting hike-- a 50-miler. The Bishop didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings and an extremely obese lady in the ward wanted to go. Instead of sharing the trip with his 12-year old son, my friend had to shove this woman's @ss up the trail and hang onto her rolls when she went downhill less she fall. Well, of course she did fall and broke her ankle trying to cross a river. It took a helicopter and eight men to get her out of the canyon. Meanwhile the boys for whom this outing was intended wandered off by themselves without supervision, and certainly without the bonding experience my friend hoped for. YOUR FAMILY COMES LAST, the Church comes first.

And here's one that was my own first step toward Doubting: One of my sons, a teenager, decided to hitchhike home to Utah from California, just for the adventure (no doubt since he lived such a tightly controlled Mormon life). He got stranded at a truck stop in Arizona, ran out of money, and called me very embarrassed and desperate. It was summer and was 110 degrees--he was one scared kid. In full confidence, I called the closest Stake President's office and explained that there was a 13 year old stranded in the desert. The woman who answered told me it was a weekend and the office was actually "closed" and she just happened to be there finishing up some paperwork. Very pleasantly, she informed me that I would have to call back on Monday! Just like a corporation, right? I pressed her and she explained further that it had to be Monday so they could call my Bishop and make sure I was active! "Let me get this straight," I said, "You don't care if a child is stranded in the desert if that child has an inactive parent?" and she said, "Yes, we can't be running over there every time someone calls us....we don't know who the people are."

Send her to read the stories of former Mormons on this site.

I am so worried about this.
As you can see there is a lot of true information given as to why people should not join this church. Mormons put pressure on you to say you agree to be baptised.
Ask your daughter not to commit to anything whithout checking with you first. Mormons should respect this as she is only 17yrs old.
Read what has been said on this site because as a convert I didn't know what questions to ask because I didn't find anything out till I was a member. Suggest you see the missionaries when you have a list of questions. All answers are in church history. Don't let them tell you that F.A.R.M.S (Farms) or FAIR have answered the questions (these are known as apologists in the church, their job is to come up with answers that will tell you you are wrong), because they've only answered in a way that covers truth up. Tell the missionaries you need time to check out their church. That your daughter is precious to you and that you have looked after her all her life and don't want her making any wrong decisions. Don't let them push you.
Let us know how it goes and good luck.

Like you said, she's 17 and the church will need your approval since she is a minor. You'd be surprised how many youth I went to church with growing up (in NJ) that didn't get baptized until they were 18 b/c their parents wouldn't let them and equally... how many just didn't care anymore by that time and took off for college. Like many previous posts, I'd suggest the same thing: that in the mean time, your daughter really needs to study all the information that's out there. For every book or article she reads about Joseph Smith or TBOM that's backed by the church, she should read one that is not and compare notes.

ok She wants independence of whoever she is living with (check)
she wants friends separate from whoever she is living with (check)
she wants to tell herself what to do not have her adult she is living with tell her what to do (check)
she is trying to figure out what to tell herself to do now she is evolving independence of her local legal adult telling her what to do (lol) & these people have structure (check)
she wants plans in her senior year these people have life plans (check)
she wants applications for something (check)
she wants to see a future (check)
she wants someone to talk to her about her future and plans without overwhelming her (check)

So she NEEDS vocational school and college information, planning sessions with a career skills specialist, a coach life planner coordinator (check)
so she NEEDS a non familial mentor (check)

she NEEDS someone to make connection with her in this year of transition (check)
she Needs positive reinforcement (check)

she needs independence, a sense of interdependence she can control, she needs boundaries she is implementing herself (check)

OK considering these seventeen year old junior senior high school Needs-
what are you going to do to effectively reach out to her.
What are you going to do to implement an alternate intervention meeting her needs at this juncture of her life?
with who/whom are you going to do it?
what resources can help her plan?

If its a religious high school she's attending or a religious staffer in the career center or class scheduling office their plan may be home economics & no college prep mathematics for the past three years. She needs someone to evaluate her achievement profile, her skills and personality preferences, and generate a reasonable objective list or pre requisites to target in preferring/ preparing for a preferred college /vocational plan for her.
someone who is objective in career analysis -

it is fall in her junior or senior year & someone out there is planning her life with/for her- they presented something-
a plan-
a thing for her to do (that makes sense with all those people around her, reality checking, which is a very powerful thing.)

present some resources-
present some time with some resources
perhaps human resource developer
perhaps a career achievement life skills planner

so she can see a future

When I feel into that trap. I grew up in a heavily Mormon City also, and I got sucked into it by my perception that all my Mormon friends seemed to be devoted and live their faith. I was 17 when I told my parents that I wanted to be a mormon, and 18 when I got baptized. Tell her, that she needs to get more life experience before making a decision like this.
I was warned about all the presure that would be put on me to go on a mission, and than get maried too early. All my friends and their families got me to brush off those warnings, but
sure enough I got presured into going on a mission after only one year in the church, and it turned out to be a horable experience for me and lead to me leaving.
I want to help you however I can because I was once in the exact same boat your daughter is in. I am now twenty seven and have been out for about six years. If you have any more questions or feel I can help in any way, please feel free to e-mail me. gweir87@hotmail.com

So wanting to become a Mormon is a sign there's an unfilled need in her life. I've never known of anyone who yearned for the heavy doctrines of Mormonism. It's usually because they liked the story, the people, the promises of happiness. Or for love.

So maybe there's another approach to this situation, one that addresses the underlying reasons she wants to change her life.

Stray Mutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So wanting to become a Mormon is a sign there's an
> unfilled need in her life. I've never known of
> anyone who yearned for the heavy doctrines of
> Mormonism. It's usually because they liked the
> story, the people, the promises of happiness. Or
> for love.
>
> So maybe there's another approach to this
> situation, one that addresses the underlying
> reasons she wants to change her life.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make but you said it much better : )

she is 17. A vulnerable age. It doesn't automatically mean that her parents are lacking in skills!

She could care less about doctrine. She is having fun, feeling so loved and important... She has no idea what she'd be getting into and frankly I am sure she doesn't want to hear it. She is 17!

Does she want to graduate from college, have a career, travel, indulge hobbies... You know, all those things Mormonism doesn't value for women and/or doesn't leave you with time to pursue? Does she know she'll be pressured to marry young and pop out a bunch of kids? Is that what she wants?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2010 05:37PM by Stray Mutt.

Show her the testimonies of all those here who have been hurt and have had families destroyed by this cult.

Stray Mutt says it very well. It's not about doctrine, it's about fantasy.

If she says she wants to marry young and pop out a bunch of kids, she has no idea what that life is actually like. Take her to visit someone with several kids under 6 and just sit in their kitchen for an hour or so. Look around...hear the sounds, read the body language.

She would never decide to become a blacksmith without doing some apprentice work in a blacksmith shop. Have her volunteer to help a young mother with young children for a week. Remember, no birth control looks like this: a baby every two years for the rest of your life until menopause. Or feeling guilty and "not worthy" for not giving the waiting spirits bodies.

And once those innocent babies have arrived ,there's no going back to being young, carefree and thinking thoughts like "Maybe I'll go to France for a year" or "Maybe I'll join the Peace Corps." It's more like "Maybe we can afford a babysitter for one night a week so I can take a night class and finish college in, hmmmm, only 11 years. So I don't have to live in grinding poverty...or So I can be the artist/nurse/musician/doctor/linguist/therapist I always wanted to be."