My question is, then why is no one doing it? If this is encouraged, why is it that everyone is a SAHM? I have watched the dirty looks and people scurrying just by wearing pants to church, for gawd's sake, what about the women who pursue other paths? I have heard so many stories about singles and childless women. This is is all some unspoken rule. No good Mormon will tell you outright where a woman's place is. I think we can all agree that being a mother and a SAHM works for a lot of women. My observation is that women have no value beyond her uterus. If it's being taught to young women in Mormondom that there are other choices and paths, why aren't more doing it?

This is news to me. I've been out of TSCC for a long time but back in the day women were told having kids and keeping the husband happy were her primary goals in life.

It seems to me that it's either overtly stated or implied that this is to be a 'back up', as the first desire should always be motherhood and taking care of the fam. Motherhood is 'the most important role women will have' as stated by church leadership and perpetuated by the culture. So even though they say get an education, what they really mean is 'just in case' you don't get married, have children, or your husband somehow can't be full of crap enough to support you and your 5+ children in his job.

Well, there's the facade for the world to see, and then there's the real mormonism behind it. Wink, wink, nod, nod. Remember the "I'm a mormon" commercials? I don't recall many mormons like those.

The things you'll see and hear in their media advertising campaigns are different than what you'll hear in conference and priesthood/auxiliary meetings. Just like businesses.

+1

I know some who did a I'm a Mormon crapAd and they were everything but not that displayed person ....

Education is welcome - as long asit could be useful to raise your kids. So becoming a teacher, nurse, kindergarten teacher, psychologist, cook or something like that is good education for a female morg - becoming a constructor, engineer, carpenter, mechanic ... isn't a useful choice to fulfill your eternal purpose.

Not a psychologist. Definitely not a psychologist. Especially because of the whole PhD thing and critical thinking. The cult hates that.

The culture is still strongly there. I've had many working mothers in the church apologize when they talk about working. They say things like, "I'm working but I make sure to always be there when my kids get home from school." Or, "I wouldn't work if I didn't have to". In my experience it's not acceptable to talk about how much you love working and that you're happy putting your children in day care.

I know it's all just fluff and smoke. The proof is in the puddin', women are stay at home moms and have to provide bodies for the spirit babies. The working woman is treated poorly, the childless woman, the single woman (let's remember Deenie's stories), it is very, very clear what the beliefs are and what is encouraged. Licked cupcakes.

This being said: honorable RSM, permanent TR holder, 2 Diploma, Doctors degree, good income, musically, playing piano and flute above average level, singer, lyricist, speaking 5 languages .... being treated like a pile of shit for not having a penis but dare to be successful and refused to marry the first avilable RM to popp out a baby every other year. Getting blamed for not follow Gawds plan and being "probably a lesbian", got offending tips how to get more attractive to the young available men (maybe it may help to lose some pounds, get a "proper and nice" style, don't show your intelligence, this might scare them) turned 30 and get pitied for a wasted life from a 36 year old Grandma (yes that really happened)

Getting out of HS, having no education, no life experience, being a bimbo, unable to look out of the box, marry the first available RM, who has no education too and actually can hardly feed himself, having 5 bratz before turn 25 and 6th in tube becomes YW next Idol...

This is sad but true....
But not only the unmarried, educated, old shags like I were treated like shit -also those who only have one child and refuses to get more because they want to have a family AND a career or simply can't afford more, being married and decide to wait and get an education first.

"If this is encouraged, why is it that everyone is a SAHM?"

Who says that all Mormon women are stay at home mothers? I'm not sure it is true and I think it should be questioned.

Also, if it is true, don't forget that it is possible for a woman to get a college degree and be a stay at home mother. A woman's worth is not tied to the career she chooses (or doesn't choose).

Of course not *all* are, but what's the head count in the local ward? I'd say that the ratio of women who actually pursue careers or pursue a career as a mother, hits the tiny end of the spectrum and probably catch a lot of flack from it. SAHMs are the majority. That's all you see. I certainly don't see a well-balanced ratio of different life pursuits.

I'd be interested in some sort of hard data. Otherwise, my experience (both as a Mormon and as a professor who teaches all of these women) would indicate that the percentage of stay at home mothers isn't as high as you are indicating.

My TBM mother told my 21 year old DD that she needed to quit school and get married ASAP as being a mother was the most important job she could ever have. I was a bit pissed as DD is on full academic scholarship in the hard sciences. DD just laughed about it she is planning on a PhD and has no desire to be married or have kids for a very long time.

A lot of truth in comments. However, I just wanna say that I LOVE learning, I learn best when I teach, and teaching my kids has so far brought me the most joy I have ever had in my life. My husband loves teaching too, and we have many conversations on how to better explain concepts. Someday we may write books.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, having a family is just as respectable and wonderful as a career, and it's a pity when people undervalue either one. Personally, I think everybody's personality and gifts are different, and the tragedy comes when anyone is guilted into something that doesn't fit them.

+1000

I remember hearing over and over that a woman's place is in the home. Unless there have been major changes in the last 5 years, temple marriage and kids are the main goals set for YW. This thinking is why I left.

It's spelled out pretty clearly in paragraph 7 of the Proclaimation that also supports the anti-gay marriage agenda.
https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation?lang=eng

I wonder if geography may also be affecting Mormon moms and whether they choose to work outside the home or not nowadays. A very nice TBM friend and neighbor of mine is a full-time SAHM but also is a qualified elementary school teacher and taught fifth grade until she had her first child. (She's now expecting her fourth.)

Anyway, she has expressed guilt to me a few times over the fact that she *doesn't* have paid work. (I won't say she doesn't work or doesn't have a job because if you've stayed home with young children...enough said.) Knowing how TBM she and her husband are, I was surprised, to say the least. I asked her why she felt guilty, and she said that her husband's mother worked outside the home, full-time, for most of his childhood. (His dad also worked full-time.) Well, her husband comes from a family of nine kids, so even 20-30 years ago, that would have been quite a few mouths to feed here in the SF Bay Area.

So, although her husband has a good-paying job, her husband and her in-laws apparently make comments about how she should pull her weight more financially...yet of course they also want her to have more kids. I can't imagine she'd be getting this pressure from TBMs in Utah or Idaho, but the cost of housing is stratospheric around here, so I can only conclude that is their main reason for piling on the guilt about her "not working." I'm sure her situation is quite unusual for a TBM, though.

A good education is a one way ticket out of Mormonism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2014 09:08PM by donbagley.

They are told to get an education and be ABLE to have a career in order to financially support their pathetic husbands who are looking for women to pay their way. First hand experience and have seen many many other's where the men just don't quite cut it so the women have to instead of just using their abilities and careers to be their own success. There aren't enough men in the church who stay in the church to support the number of women and many women will need to be able to 'take care of themselves.'

My daughter stopped at two kids. My niece is slmost 26 and single. My brother and I were adult converts and have always encouraged out children to be well educated. I just wish that someday that their TBM shelves will break.

It seems to be the trend here in Salt Lake City, for a female to get an associate's or bachelor's degree, or enough training for her to get a good job--to put her returned missionary husband through school. The typical RM misses two years of college, but still gets married a few months after returning from his mission. He needs someone to support him through the rest of his schooling, plus a master's, law, medical, whatever advanced degree. My daughter did that. My friend's daughter put her husband through law school, and they he decided he wanted to go to medical school, so she is still working full time as a speech therapist, and hatching their third child. My daughter didn't have any children while she was putting her husband through 5 years of school. She got criticized for delaying having a family. Then she had one child and stopped. She got more criticism.

There are some people who can't have children, you know.

I was both a SAHM and a working mother. I loved staying at home with my children, reading and studying what I felt like studying, teaching my kids what I wanted them to learn, playing with him and establishing a good relationship with them, showing them plenty of love and attention, going to a dance class 5 mornings a week, keeping house, entertaining, doing yard work and car repairs (I'm mechanical). I did it all, yet the working mothers in the neighborhood were jealous of me, and society in general made me feel guilty staying home. I was the "go-to" mom in the neighborhood, picking up other's kids from school when they were sick, having them have breakfast with us when their mother had to be at work extra early, picking them up after school and keeping them at my house until after work hours. I think I contributed. I also did volunteer work at my children's schools. Volunteer jobs are the best (except for Mormon jobs which are degrading), and I got excellent training, way beyond my bachelor's degree level.

Most Mormon working mothers have to work, Yes, they are criticized by the Mormons: "Oh, you 'have' to work to afford your fancy house and car?" Usually it is more than that. Most Utah families are around $30,000 in debt, and are living beyond their means. A Mormon man is too much of a coward to admit he depends on his wife for their income, so you never hear about that.

In my whole life as a Mormon, I never met anyone like those people on the "I Am A Mormon" commercials. Really. Do they exist? Maybe Donnie and Marie, but I never met them, either.

Anyway, as a SAHM, my Mormon husband did not respect me, and would call me and the children names like "liabilities" "sponges" "things." When I offered to work for pay, he didn't want me to, because he liked the full-time maid, cook, sex, and babysitting services. When we got divorced, he paid only the minimum required to stay out of jail. I got more education, and had some lucky breaks, and now I make more money than he does, and we live in a nicer house. I get a great deal of satisfaction from that. Plus, the kids and I still have that strong bond we developed early on. For me, it has been the best of both worlds.

Maybe it is not "either-or."

You and sons go to priesthood.

I mean. The entire fate of civilization rests on men and children coming home to homemade confectionary treats.

Otherwise Elohim and Jehovah will get us all - with floods and droughts and young adult literature romanticizing witchcraft.

Wait. That last one was satan's fault.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2014 12:00AM by Raptor Jesus.

Sure they can as long as it doesn't interfere with their ability to make babies and take care of the children and the house and perform their church callings.

I was single , childless, and had a job to pay my bills.

I was married, had 2 kids, no job, but husband who made good money paid the bills.


I was NOT acceptable in the first situation.

I was accepted, doted over, and treated respectfully in situation #2.

In my next phase of life, kids are grown,hubby and I are rethinking our beliefs. We've learned that the mormon church is NOT acceptable. Who in the hell do they think they are to pick and choose what women are acceptable according to who they've been married to, and how many children they have?

Nobody would enjoy seeing the Mormon church go down in flames more than I would.

A lot of my peers (I'm a female) graduated from college but have little experience working full time outside of the home because they started to have kids right after college, or like others have said were putting spouses through college. I was kind of the anomaly in our ward that I had a full time career outside the home for a number of years. I'll be honest that we were experiencing infertiliy that definately played a role in that decision. I now look back and wonder "why was I in SUCH a rush to have kids"? Parenting has been fabulous, but I look back and fondly remember my years working in my career and wonder why I was so panicked that kids weren't coming when I was in my mid to late 20's. I guess I just wish I would have enjoyed that time more. You can still have kids in your 30's and enjoy them.

Why I left my good paying career to be a SAHM? Multiple reasons... even with a good salary, daycare is expensive (especially if you have 2-3 kids, which most families around me have at least). I don't have family close by and didn't really have a backup plan for days when kids end up sick. My commute at the time was a full hour one way, with not many other career options closer to me and I normally got home at 7pm. If I worked close to home and could get home around 5 or 5:30pm that would have been a different story.

Also, now that I have a child in kindergarten I've realized that Utah schools (where I live) are horrible for working parents. School activities and programs, parent teacher conferences etc are often during the day, kindergarten is half days, they get out early on Fridays, and they get days off of school all the time. By time you factor in childcare, commute costs, additional taxes, more tithing to pay (what I was thinking at the time anyway) it for sure cuts into your paycheck. So those were the reasons I chose to not continue working in my career after my second child was born.

Ultimately I think it boils down to two things. Programming as children and young adults and marrying young. Growing up I heard lessons pushing children and parenthood on almost a weekly basis. Secondary, most of the woman I know simply don't have a career that pays well enough to make it worth it financially. I have several former collegues who are female engineers and architects, and interestingly enough none of them are mormon (and I live in the mooridoor).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2014 02:44AM by glittertoots.

They can't come straight out and say it's ok, let alone preferred, for a woman to finish her education because she needs to have a means to support herself or help support her family. So they use the "just in case" clause. Just in case they don't end up married. Just in case "something" happens to their husband (like he shows that he's a lazy bastard). "Just in case" you can't make it on today's economy but by the time you realize that, you already have 4 kids.

In my day girls were supposed to go to college for the express purpose of finding a husband. But I know of very few girls I grew up with in the church who haven't had to at least go to work and help supplement the family income. Only problem, those of us who dropped out of college when eternal mate came along ended up working in factories, call centers, retail, secretarial, housekeeping, mlm side jobs, etc. It wasn't fun but it was necessary. I think younger women today see that and realize that if they are going to have to work to supplement the family, let alone if they have to support themselves, they're going to have an education to further their chances of not having to do the things their mothers had to.