I was reading the thread on Men vs Women. The consensus seems to be that women in the church are oppressed and don't have any power and are trapped without earning ability. All because of men. Here are some quotes I took from it:

"There is a reason the Taliban and other Islamic fundamentalist organizations are against education for women. Education gives women power and increases their earning ability. Which makes them dangerous."

"Also, as blueorchid pointed out, women have got no individual power. They've got power only so far as they can get the support of someone else, a bishop, their husband, other women, who can tell an offender the woman's right and they're wrong. There's no teaching in the church that let's them elevate their own ego and strike out on their own."

"Women also of course have been burdened by pregnancy, childbirth, and taking care of children whereas men are not burdened with such matters and are freer to come and go."

"The dependency is set up because women are told from birth onward that their one and only sole purpose in this world is to be a wife and mother. So how could a mormon girl possibly develop to be an independent person, who isn't as dependent upon "social"? You can't even get into heaven without a man! And that, I think, is the bottom line. Without a man, no heaven. That sets up this social dependency. Again, what's your point?"

"To answer what the OP seems to be talking about, if women are more dependent on social structures like that, it is only because men forced them into that role long long ago. However, I am not sure there is evidence to really support that."

"It's just that, for many mormon women, there is no other social support system. Especially if the woman in question is A) BIC, B) somewhere in the mormon corridor, and C) stuck to the rules of women not working outside the home. If that were my situation, it would be terrifying to walk away from EVERYTHING and everyone you know and love. Thus, dependency."

This kind of talk leaves me confused. I have pushed my daughters to get educated. My youngest got a BS in plant sciences last year with a 3.92 GPA. She has always been interested in plant disease, so I've encouraged her toward graduate studies. But she has a boyfriend getting a masters in engineering, and she is content to work in a jewelry store until he graduates and they get married. She says she just wants to stay home and have kids. I no longer bug her about going to more school, because it makes her cry.

If the women in church are limited in their careers because of male oppression, I don't know how that applies to my daughter. We left the church when she was eight, and she wants nothing to do with it. I don't know who has pressured her to be a mom. She wants it so bad, she has gotten a puppy while she's waiting to get married, and treats it like a baby. If having babies is a "burden" as stated here, why does she want them so bad?

Then there's my wife. When we were still going to church, and our kids were in school, I would come home to find her doing crafts with her church friends. I figured it would be good for her to improve her earning potential, so pushed her toward a career ( she had a teaching degree). That made her angry. I was hating my career, so with years worth of savings, I decided to take a few years off and help around the house and small farm. I was not welcomed, and received threats of divorce. For some reason I thought she would welcome me helping free her from burdens at home.

Why is it that a woman who is pressured to stay home is oppressed, but a man who is pressured to work is not?

My wife has this year started a job as 5th grade teacher and doesn't know if she wants to continue - too much stress. She now says she appreciates better the issues I was going through with career. She says she would much rather be at home and we are discussing that as it would be better for our health (neither has time to cook or exercise).

Is it possible that many women actually want what the church gives them - the chance to stay home and have kids and be a homemaker? If they are getting what they want, doesn't that mean they have power? Why do we have to insist they are all at home against their will?

Is there a good reason each couple cannot work out this issue themselves without a church's intrusive input?

First, background: I'm female, married, no kids, and have worked all my life. I have an education and a professional job. I never had any interest in being a stay-at-home mom.

That said, here are some reasons I think women might choose this.

1. First, the overwhelming reproductive/nurturing drive is hard to resist. We are driven to reproduce and nurture our young. That is human biology and will never change.

2. Women, especially women from "traditional" religious communities such as the Mormons, receive the message that stay-at-home motherhood is a positive, respectable choice. They receive support and praise for doing this, which reinforces their decision.

3. Work is hard. It's work, after all. Nobody really enjoys the corporate grind. But it can be more difficult for women. Building a professional career and defending it daily - which all women have to do in a way that men do not - is draining and incredibly unrewarding. The difficulty of a job is compounded by the lack of respect from coworkers and sometimes family members.

4. Women who succeed at work can end up having to choose between respect at work and respect at home. Some men resent it when their wives or girlfriends succeed. Every professional success, every raise, and every promotion is "celebrated" by derision or by being ignored entirely. Most girls learn this in school, long before we get to the workforce.

Some men don't really get this. When you get a promotion, it's cause for celebration and a self-esteem bump. When we get promoted, we sometimes face a resentful spouse who wants to know how we're going to take care of them if we're working more hours. Or if a woman is married to an insecure jerk, he might start cutting her down in subtle ways so she doesn't feel too good about her accomplishments. It's hard to succeed in an environment like that.

5. Fifth grade? Yeeesh. The teaching profession is particularly difficult. Low pay, no respect, ever-increasing workloads, and the subconscious expectation that women should do anything related to nurturing children for free. It's a brutal way to make a living. I wouldn't fault anyone for shunning it.

6. Child care is HARD. I don't know how any woman with young children can work at the same time. Many do, and they should be applauded. Given the option, I would never do both at once.

7. There could be something comforting about the idea of a husband who can support the family. It might make some women feel safe and protected. It also might be a status thing - if a wife can stay home, it means the husband is capable of supporting the family, and that means he's a decent catch, and isn't his wife lucky?

For what it's worth, I would never trade power for safety. Putting one's security in the hands of anyone else seems like an incredibly dangerous move in the end. I always welcomed opportunities to build my skills and become self-reliant, but not everyone is up for that challenge.

Those are my thoughts. Flame away, if you wish. I have a thick hide.

I agree with everything you said 100%.

I had wanted to be a mom since I was little church or no church, but I refused to be reliant on any man. I went to college and have a career. I can support myself and my kids if need be (I work part time right now). Since the time I was little I thought it was stupid to bring children into the world and not have a way to support them. I didn't want to be dependent on anyone, at their mercy without a way to care for myself.

Well, first of all, women who stay home ARE WORKING. Housekeeping, cooking, child care, and errands are serious work that makes the family's life better and that has enormous value. It's very doubtful whether a man who works 40 hours a week is actually doing more than his stay-at-home wife, so I just can't see you as oppressed for being expected to work.

Second, there is a big difference between women having the choice to be homemakers, and ALL women being pressured to do it even if they would rather be doing something else. So your wife and daughter are more drawn to homemaking -- so what? That doesn't justify limiting other women's opportunities.

When I read posts like yours, I'm often struck by the way it seems like some men want all women to be alike, all members of one monolithic class of people called women. That's why you hear some guys talk about not understanding women, or not knowing "what women want." It's incredibly dehumanizing to reduce people to these simple creatures who are all supposed to be the same, all supposed to have the same wants, needs, & characteristics. Women are not all the same. They don't all want the same things. You can't understand "women" as a class. You have to deal with each woman as an individual, just like you'd deal with each man in your life as an individual.

You took my comments out of context. I said part of the reason men have traditionally been in power in the history of the world is that they are not burdened with pregnancy and child rearing. Hard to be out conquering the world when you're barefoot and pregnant. I also said women generally are nurturing in nature.

It is oppression when someone is made to do something they don't want to do. So no, if all a woman wants is to stay home and be a mom, then no, she is not being oppressed. However, the issue becomes clouded by the fact that mormon girls and women are groomed from a young age to be stay at home moms. Is being a stay at home mom what they really want, or is it what they think they should want? My mega TBM SIL is grooming her 19 year daughter to want to be a mom and have kids. Every time her daughter says something about maybe not wanting to have kids, she cuts her off or dismisses it. The latest gem is when my niece again said something about not being a mom, her mother told her to stop saying that because it makes all her spirit children in heaven sad to hear her say that. So here she is not given a choice, and made to feel guilty for even thinking about not having kids.

True, many women have strong maternal feelings and want to be mothers anyway; they are not being made to stay against their will.

There is yet another factor at play here. In encouraging members to marry young and start having kids right away, the church is essentially making it very difficult for the women to finish their educations. Now THIS helps to keep them oppressed, in that if they decide they do want a career after all, it's very difficult to go back to school with a bunch of little ones.

I'll say one more thing. When we told our kids we were leaving the church, my oldest was relieved. She said it bothered her that whenever the priesthood holders would come to YW to give a lesson, they were always told they would all be great moms. Nothing about being a doctor or a lawyer or a teacher, just a mom. As if that's all that's expected of girls. The thing is, she wants to be a mom. But she also wants to go to college and have a career too.

I have the qualifications to earn a heap of money, and yet here I am with NO self-esteem, washing dishes and doing the laundry as a stay at home mom. The church and its misogynistic doctrines have made me feel worthless, whereas my brother who is an extremely low achiever academically, has always had his ego boosted by church and has bags of arrogant confidence in himself. He talks down to me every chance he gets because I'm female. My dad is the same.

"Why is it that a woman who is pressured to stay home is oppressed, but a man who is pressured to work is not?"

Who is in control of their own choices?

If you are not in control of the choice to work or not, and your family has no other income so you are forced to work, then you are oppressed too. Just oppressed by your wife, not all of society or a whole religion.

I would also say: Just because you encouraged your daughter to be educated and pursue a career doesn't mean she got the same message in Sunday School and YW. I love how men sometimes don't seem to believe us when we say EVERY SINGLE STINKIN' LESSON at church is about just that: marry in the temple to an RM and make lots of babies and do NOTHING else with your life, ever. Why you no believe us? Why would we make that up?

"Is it possible that many women actually want what the church gives them - the chance to stay home and have kids and be a homemaker? If they are getting what they want, doesn't that mean they have power? Why do we have to insist they are all at home against their will?"

I do not assume that everyone stays home against their will. It is entirely possible that many women really want to stay home. Many nonmos make that very choice. The issue I have and will continue to beat the drum about, is being told there is no other choice. I was told there was no other choice. I was preparing for a career in journalism and was told basically to not bother and that college would be a waste of time and money unless I found a husband there. I made the choice to go against ALL advice, parental and church, and follow my dreams. I was warned that I'd have a horrible, lonely life and no man would ever want me.

Finally, as much as we've established that the church brainwashes people, I have to question how much these women in your life are really making the choice for themselves because they really really want that choice or because they've had it pounded into their brains that there is no other choice and to make a different choice is assigning yourself a nice spot in hell/outer darkness/away from your loved ones for eternity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2014 09:13AM by dogzilla.

"Why you no believe us? Why would we make that up?"

Obviously because of your liberal democrat, left wing, atheist, feminazi, devil worshipping, anti Mormon, agenda backed by the homosexuals to bring down America and fight God's plan.

Was I close?

Edit: forgot to add something homophobic, I apologize for the oversight



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2014 10:04AM by notnewatthisanymore.

I have zero qualification to comment on this topic except that I am a woman, and I was raised by a woman who at times worked and at times stayed home with me and my brothers. I am a lesbian who has never been married to a man and I do not have children myself. So please take what I say with that in mind.

Athena hit several points I would have made right on the nose. I was cheering her as I read.

Although I have never wanted children, I know that I am unusual in that regard. Most women want babies and a home because that is just part of what women are about--nest building. :) The fact that up until fairly recently, nest building was considered a compulsory vocation for all women also has a lot to do with it, because most people--not just women--are conformists who want to do what society expects of them. I don't say that to be arrogant--it just is.

Also, and I'm gonna put this less diplomatically than Athena--staying home with the kids, in comparison to putting them in day care and then having to do all the housewife shit AFTER your eight to ten hour day--is EASY. Yeah, I know, cooking and cleaning and childrearing is the hardest job in the world. Uh-huh. A job you get to do in sweats and a tee shirt, on your own schedule for the most part, and no annual performance reviews. What you're risking, of course, is that your husband will get bored with being married to a hausfrau and trade you in for a new model, and there you are with no work experience. Which is why I totally agree with Athena on NEVER putting myself in the position of being financially supported by anyone else. The woman has never been BORN that I would trust to "take care" of me. And I include my current partner, who is a very responsible and kind individual.

Your mileage may vary, and flame away also.

I want to touch on the point that just because a father or a family promotes something, doesn't mean others don't push for something else. (And, of course, all women are individuals).

I've a friend that befriended missionaries. She's an older woman, and to her, the missionaries are like little kids. To them, she's their golden investigator. They talk openly around her and they tell her their plans after the mission. Without exception, they say they will go home and get married right away. Also without exception, they are looking for a woman who is TBM, will get married in the temple, is thin, tall, blonde, and blue-eyed (they say this), she will never work (they don't want a woman who wants a career), she will not have an education (they don't want a woman who wants anything other than being, what, their household servant and nannie?).

My friend's rather shocked. These kids are describing a luxury car not a human being. So, to be valued by the boys they hope to have sex with (even if that thought is subconscious) the girls are trying to turn themselves into fancy, consumer products rather than developing themselves as people. It's a hard system to get out of.

I would say the dynamic between men and women is at one of the best places it has ever been since the first fish crawled out of the ocean. I would say this is due to technological advances that have put knowledge and understanding on an equal footing for nearly all. Even if you are a SAHM most still have access to books, Oprah, Dr.Phil, and can go online and find enough information to never be in the dark again. All you need is a phone nowadays. They aren't just for texting anymore.

But in the end, you have to reach out, grab that information, internalize it, and act. We each still have to make our own life, fight our own demons, strive for our own dreams.

Technology has given us, men and women, the greatest tools ever to accomplish that, to at least have a chance. But once the information is offered up to you, that's where technology ends and you start, no matter what your gender.

I don't like the OP's original question left the world of Mormonism and became the same old Men VS Women debate. I don't like those types of reductions and find them decisive. We are more than those two generalities--men and women. The exception may prove the rule, as they say, but nowadays,there are just too many exceptions nowadays to prove that particular rule that men keep women down.

However, in the Mormon church, I do believe oppression of women is at an all time high and I hate watching it. And it isn't about women not taking advantage of technology and the information it offers, it is about brainwashing. It is a cult. A cult will first and foremost get you to work against your own best interest until you are administering your own brainwashing.

It is sad. I don't live near or around Mormons and I haven't ever in so many years I can count heard anyone put down for being a stay at home mom and I know a ton of career women who wish they could stay home with the kids. Being a mom is a fantastic wonderful thing.

My dad nearly died from the stress of his job. And he is not alone. For every guy out there with an amazing career I dare say there are a helluva lot more than that who are dreading going to work and gritting their teeth at what the way they are treated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2014 10:28AM by blueorchid.

You said your daughter has a science degree and is interested in plant disease, which I assume means research.

For a woman who wants kids EVER, the sciences are a particularly incompatible career choice.

Assume that a woman's prime childbearing years are between 25 and 35. It takes until roughly 22-23 to finish a four-year degree. If she goes to grad school right after that, she's looking at 2-3 more years of school. Then the research phase begins. As a postdoc researcher, she will make very little money and work insane hours. SHe can't take a maternity leave in the middle of an experiment. If her research is at a critical point, there will be nobody but her to continue her work while she's pregnant. Add in frequent relocations, job insecurity, and the competing demands of a husband's career.

The sciences are shamefully undervalued and underpaid in this country. Jobs are difficult to find and sexism, unfortunately, is rampant. The student loans for grad school are huge. If you were a woman in your prime childbearing years, would you want to be underpaid, in the lab 12 hours a day, and saddled with six figures of debt?

I got a good job and worked for 8-1/2 years before being married and having children. Oh my hell! I went out looking for a job behind my husband's back. When he found out, he helped me find one where he works. I worked evenings and weekends and he would watch the kids while I was at work. It was WONDERFUL for their relationship with their father--to spend time alone with him.

He did leave for another man when they were 10 years old. Thank whomever I had this job as I had started working at home (which is another story in and of itself).

He used to tell me that he had made all my dreams come true and I told him I had been dreaming the wrong dreams.

I refuse to remarry because I did find that I gave my power over to my husband. I like having my own paycheck and I refuse to combine incomes with my boyfriend, buy a house with him, etc. I refuse to live with him full time. I even give my power away to my kids. I was taught well.

But I'm also not going to downplay the hell Mormon men go through. I'd take being a Mormon woman any day over a Mormon man. The lds church is full of men and women who are back stabbers and social climbers. Those who aren't, male or female, are the ones who suffer.

"I would also say: Just because you encouraged your daughter to be educated and pursue a career doesn't mean she got the same message in Sunday School and YW."

As I said, this daughter hasn't been to church since age 8. Never got to YW, and doesn't remember much about church.

Seems to be an insistence that every choice a woman makes is due to pressure and oppression at church.

One problem with that is I have a TBM SIL that got a Masters degree and is teaching at a local college. My TBM sister has a Masters and is working as a nurse.

The other problem with the idea that men have all the authority, is they don't seem to support their interests very well. Many men would rather not work so much, or would like to look at porn or whatever. But they get beat up over all that.

Almost seems like much of church supports the interests of women more than men - stable home life, etc.

Women have power, but in different areas. As I mentioned, I tried to take time off and help at home, but was intruding on her empire there.

Don't know why we can't just say that the church is good for some and not others, instead of saying the whole group of women is oppressed, and men are in complete charge and abusive.

Final thought before head to work.

The idea that women who stay at home have to be doing so because of male domination, is demeaning to a lot of women. It is saying they are weak and cannot make their own decisions, and are incapable of acting in their self-interest.

And its demeaning to a lot of men also

Don't know why you continue to insist upon denying and dismissing the female experience when it's directly relayed to you.

No kidding.

Yet, I will say that Mormon cult brainwashing does harm men as well as women. Besides gender inequality, there is a distinct class issue (another taboo subject).

It simply kills me that people who claim to believe the US Constitution was divinely inspired also believe that their own goal in life (and death) is to qualify to "rule" over a planet, and they await the return of Jesus so he can rule over the Earth. Our founding fathers (and hidden founding mothers) risked hanging for treason in order to destroy the monarchy and the very notion of aristocracy. Yet, Mormonism has created its own aristocracy, the people are taught to long to be aristocrats themselves, to sustain aristocrats to rule over them, to obey aristocrats; wards are set up as fiefs and the peasants have callings they can't turn down, they've got no vote or say in how their lives will be run; quality of life depends on whether your own, personal bishop is a dick or not, no social controls limit his dick-ability; etc. Consequently, men, who aren't high enough on the aristocratic ladder to gain major status benefits from Mormon culture, or men who are democratic at heart and who have no desire to lord it over anyone, also get the shaft--it's not just women.

He insists because it's being relayed first hand by women... the very people who experience this. Women's opinions and experiences have less value than a man's in Mormonism.

Doesn't matter if it's honest, or being relayed politely and truthfully... it's coming from the female perspective.

I think the church brainwashes both genders. Men are directed one way, women another. The difference is that women are taught to listen to and honor their husband's opinions. Men are not taught to do the same to their wives.

The job market for recent college graduates is terrifying.

I'm a Gen-Xer, and I clearly remember the feeling that I was about to fall off a cliff. And I was motivated to find a job. I had student loans, but not the kinds kids have coming out of school today. Still, that 2-3 years after college felt like I was never going to escape poverty, that there was nobody who could help me, and that I was a failure for not succeeding.

The economy was bad the year I graduated, but nothing like it is now.

Many people have gone on to grad school because they couldn't find work, taken on more student debt, and ruined their future finances without actually improving their prospects.

Your daughter's boyfriend is about to finish a very marketable degree. Is it possible that she's just scared to death of her future prospects and clinging to the stay-at-home mom idea as an alternative?

"Don't know why we can't just say that the church is good for some and not others, instead of saying the whole group of women is oppressed, and men are in complete charge and abusive."

I don't think the church is truly good for anyone. Because it STRONGLY promotes certain roles and stereotypes for men and women (including gender roles and sexual identity), they get in the way of honesty and self-determination.

"There is a reason the Taliban and other Islamic fundamentalist organizations are against education for women. Education gives women power and increases their earning ability. Which makes them dangerous."

You took my quote entirely out of context. I was referring to the original poster's comments which I post below:

What dominate world religions have women invented?
What governments have women created, and controlled?
What large scale social constructs have women built?
What wars have women started, fought and ended?
What game changing things have women invented?

Women, until recently in the scope of history, were not allowed to be educated. It is very difficult to create a world religion, run a government, start a war, etc. when you have no education, no power and no ability to support yourself.

The point, from the beginning, is that women should be able to choose if they want to be a SAHM mom or not. They shouldn't be forced into that role by family, society, or anyone else. Personally I choose not to be a SAHM. With some financial sacrifices we could probably support me being one. But I would be horrible at it. As much as I love my son, the idea of spending all day at home with him and nothing to do but clean the house makes me shudder. It's not my cup of tea. And I'm grateful that I have my own education, the ability to support myself, and a husband that doesn't expect me to stay home.

I'm sorry that your wife didn't support you when you wanted to leave the working world and be a SAHD. Personally there was a point where my DH and I considered him being a SAHD and we would have done it in an instant if we could have afforded it. He would have made a much better SAHD than I would be a SAHM. So not everyone out there is like your wife when it comes to this topic.

I get so f_cking tired of hearing that women who want to stay at home while raising children are lazy, dependent, or have been suppressed by a patriarchal culture. I'm sure there are women who fit these categories (okay, I'm talking about Western culture in which most women have a choice in these matters).

I am educated (with a masters degree in my field), had a good career, and married later. I didn't fit the typical TBM profile. I really did want to stay at home and raise my kids. I was able to for 3 years when my kids were really little and I freelanced in my field. Those years I treasured and wish I could have had more of.

Most of the SAHMs I know work hard at being a stay-at-home mother in the same way I work hard at my job and my role as mother. Some homeschool their kids (and do a damn good job of it); many volunteer at our school on PTA, in the classroom, in on community council. I respect these women and many of them are close friends. WE all care about our children and their education.

I must pay tribute as well to some stay-at-home fathers I know of. They do a bang up job as well!

To the original poster: Your daughter is an adult. She is responsible for her own choices. She may decide to get a master degree later on. As for your wife--is there any chance you could both work part-time and have more time at home? Either way, it must be a decision you both are agreeable to. My TBM spouse decided he needed to only work a few hours a week and hasn't worked full time in years due to his "health." Well, he chooses to ignore the impact his "semi-retirement" has had on me and our two children.

Thank you for saying this! My mom worked full time while I was growing up, and I decided that I wanted to stay home when I had young kids. I know tscc puts a lot of pressure on EVERYONE to do this, but I am sick to death of women bitching about how much of a drag it is staying home. As much as everyone here likes to pretend that we've all escaped living under Sharia law, it's 2014, and if you don't like your choice, change it. I've never heard anyone denigrate SAHMs like exmormons...

I too wanted to address the SAHM comment.

I do not fit the mold of the TBM SAHM mom. I finished college, got married, got a job, and worked full time while putting dh through school. Had two kids while I was at it. When dh graduated, I cut down to part time. We had another kid. Eventually I was able to quit altogether and be a SAHM. Now I'm back to work.

Since I've been a SAHM, full time working mom, and part time working mom (to three kids), I feel qualified to say that being a SAHM was just as hard as working part and full time. It truly we, and until you've experienced it firsthand, you have no idea.

There are too many generalities in this thread. Every person is different, every situation is different. The fact that the OP has driven his daughter to tears trying to get her to get more schooling is what alarms me the most. Feminism is about women having a voice, opportunities, and a choice in their life. If she wants to be a SAHM, support her 100%.

My upbringing within the church and my family severely limited me because I felt that I only had one choice in life - to be a SAHM. I'm a horrible mother. I'm not a nurturer. But if a woman is given several different options - school, work, motherhood - then be happy and supportive with whatever she decides. That's not oppression. But don't discount those of us who did feel oppressed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2014 04:06PM by sincere9.

I believe that every man and woman should have adequate education and training so that they have the capacity to support themselves should they need to do so. Practicality dictates that many or most of us must work for much of our lives to provide for our needs.

Having said that, life is long. Most modern women that I've known that have been SAHMs have also spent significant amounts of time in the workforce at one point or another. One SAHM who spent many years at home eventually founded her own company with one of her sons. Your daughter might eventually go back to school and/or and have a career.

As for your wife, it is well known among teachers that they are engaged in a high-stress job. I imagine she does have a much better understanding of the demands that you have dealt with over the years.

I've always joked that I would love to have a wife. How nice to come home from a long day of work to a clean house, folded laundry, and a hot meal! Everyone should have a wife! :)

Absolutely what summer said!! I made sure all of my kids (3 girls, 1 boy) got an education after high school for the simple reason that everybody, male or female, needs to have knowledge and skills to earn a living and generally speaking, those with post-high school education earn more than those without.

I worked full time up until the birth of my oldest child, when I quit. The best years of my life were my SAHM years. I loved it, I wanted it to last forever. It wasn't about being oppressed or feeling that was my only choice. My ex and I mutually decided before we were married that I would stay home with the kids. It was what we both wanted and it was about wanting to give the wonderful little people we had created the very best, which was, in our opinion, a mom at home. It was the best choice for our family and I'm glad we did it. It's not for everyone and I don't put down anybody who has to work and use daycare; the main thing is, it was our CHOICE.

When my youngest was in pre-school I started with some very limited part-time work and that increased to longer hours and by the time he was 11 and his father and I divorced, I was working full time plus another part time job. I will probably never remarry (I don't even date), so I'm sure I'll have to work full time for as long as I'm physically able and at least part time the rest of my days.

So I've done it all. But by far, the best for me was my SAHM years. But again I must stress...it was a choice for me! Everyone should be able to make their own choices and be happy with what they choose. FT, PT or SAHM...we cannot be good parents unless we ourselves are happy. Everyone cannot and will not take the same path.

My 30 yo daughter wanted a baby, and wants to stay home and raise her child. I see nothing wrong with that.

She's educated and has a career. Her husband is educated and has a career. They've been together for three years.

She's having her first baby. She's excited about being a mom, wife, and homemaker for her family. I'm over the top happy for them. They've gone about it the right way.

I actually totally agree with your theory here... I think many women do in fact want to be home - period, and the church and mormon culture make that more ok than society in general. I also think some women genuinely are not motivated career wise, and so being a SAHM offers a good excuse or outlet, and the church is a refuge for those choices too, even amongst women who may not actually be that TBM.

However, there are many women who are oppressed by it too. And yes, there are many men oppressed by having to be 'providers'.

The point is, there should NOT be prescribed roles! Each individual, and couple should work it out for themselves.

I personally believe everybody should be working 30 -35 hours/week So they have time for their kids, spouse, and them self.

Here's the thing though, if you are a woman and choose to work with kids, you better be dang sure your partner is doing their equal half because if you get up during the night to breastfeed, or do the majority of care for babies and kids still home, and/or housework while also working, that's rough. I recently read that even though so many more women are in the workforce, these same women are still taking care of more at home too. Who wants twice as much work just to have a career and zero time to take care of themselves....?

Lastly, I never thought I'd want to stay home, but after having a child, it was really hard to consider having someone I dont know take care of my child. Plus I've heard a lot about in home daycare and sex abuse, SIDS, and other issues. Having a child with severe food allergies makes it even less likely I trust others to care for my child.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2014 02:32AM by dogeatdog.