Many of us at RFM know that poster KenC has written a wonderful essay that documents many misrepresentations and dishonest behavior be leaders of TSCC. I read it a month ago and copied (then sent) the htlm text to a family member who read it and responded to me, "This just sickens my stomach." It was this TBM's wake-up call that has helped to open eyes to how the Mormon Church operates with dishonesty.

We discussed the essay and wanted others in the family to read it also. So I took the text from Ken Clark's link on MormonThink (under personal stories, and Lying for the Lord) and reformatted the text into a pleasant, organized pdf file.

MormonThink accepted the colorized-reformatted-pdf file and has posted it on their website under Ken Clark's page. It makes for an easy read, an easy download, and then an easy pdf file to forward to any you might chose to share it with who would (in some circumstances) not log into a non-LDS website.

Here's the link: http://www.mormonthink.com/files/lying-for-lord-ken-clark.pdf

I hope this will assist you in telling the truth about TSCC to your family and friends.

jc

Thank you for this. It may come in handy in the near future.

Once joe got away with The First Vision (not the play!), he quickly learned how gullible people were/are.

the first verifiable lie (as I believe) was the bold denial of polyg (Times & Seasons)

After those two floated.... anything goes!

He got away with the First Vision around the late 1830s to early
1840s. There's no mention of God and Jesus both appearing to JS
before 1838.

When he got away with people believing his rock-in-the-hat
treasure hunting, he knew people were gullible. When he got
taken to court as a "disorderly person" for it he decided it
would be best to switch to religion where gullibility is
considered a virtue, and where the law keeps a hands-off approach.

I think... the BIGGEST TODAY LIE Is:

that the church is 'Pro-Family'. HHunter said (while pres) that family is the most important unit in society.

within memory, that has been Lost down the memory hole; Church, by far (nothing else remotely in sight), rules/reigns over EVERYTHING.

church=gospel=truth.


giant fail.

"Mormon Lying" http://packham.n4m.org/lying.htm

Ken Clark gives credit to your article, "Mormon Lying," on page 4 and 44 of the pdf file.

For the record, I like R. Packham's succinct conclusion in his essay:

"After having read and heard hundreds of former Mormons tell their reasons for leaving the church, I find that by far the most frequent reason given, and often the only reason, is: "The church lied to me!"

I am stunned too at the dishonesty. I like what the previous Oklahoma Temple President (who has left the church) said,

"My only problem is with the Mormon Church. Notwithstanding that, it has some commendable features that I appreciate, it is too full of deceit and hypocrisy with regard to its history and to its continuous representations to the world for me to associate it with the glorious and defining principle of truth. One doesn't wish or expect to find practices of hypocrisy and deceit so interwoven into a true Christian enterprise." -Jerrell Chesney



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2014 09:15PM by jiminycricket.

Excellent quote. That really sums it up nicely. Indeed, how could any honest thinking person be part of something "full of deceit and hypocrisy".

THank you!

KW

Very good read.

I found this very interesting:

"The events of 9‐11‐2001 are eerily
similar to 9‐11‐1857. Both acts of senseless murder were the result of fanatical and unquestioning
obedience to religious authority. (Will Bagley, The Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the
Massacre at Mountain Meadows, pp. 157, 176‐177)"

Ha ha,I read stuff like this, and the 303song "don't trust a mo" just pops into my head.

Thanks and nice work ken c. & jiminycricket for putting up nicely.

I always wondered why Mormons seem to lie... nobody ever told me it was for the Lord: maybe it is rather for the church.

The way I understand it, and I'm sure it has been defined by Ken C., and others here, is that the scriptural directive, "don't caste your pearls before swine" was twisted by Smith, et al, to mean they could lie to protect sacred things, i.e. temple, polygamy, etc. They felt justified because Jesus gave the instructions to do so.

Awesome! Thank you. Yes, it will come in handy one day.

FYI, the pdf file has had minor corrections that are on a new May 17, 2014 update. http://mormonthink.com/files/lying-for-lord-ken-clark.pdf

Also, the tab heading at MormonThink → Doctrine → Lying for the Lord, has been updated to match the pdf file. http://mormonthink.com/lying.htm

jc ☺

When mormons accuse you of denying "the truth," it's fun just to say, "and which "truth" would that be?" Of course it's all rolled into one nice neat little box for them, "the church is true."

"What part of it?" They just don't want to unpack the box. The FACT is the church is not true. Period. Plain and simple. It's a hoax. It was a hoax from the very beginning. It's founders were con artists. It's so easy to see, that's why they don't look. I think most mormons know damn well that it's probably a fraud. They just want that plausible deniability that maybe it isn't. So facts go out the window.

There is NOTHING in the mormon church that is good that can't be found in any other church and for that matter, in no church. Their claim of "the spirit" is the same emotions anyone else is able to feel. In fact, I feel "spiritual" so much more now than I ever did in the cult. There is no power in the penishood. They get lucky sometimes and people who are "blessed" by the holy rancid olive oil recover. They get unlucky at other times and they don't. Just like in real life. The stats are the same. There are NOT more mormon people who have received blessings who survive tragic accidents or life-threatening sicknesses than people in the real world who suffer the same things. The "still small voice" is called intuition. Everyone has it. Sorry mormons, you have no corner on the market of feelings, intuition and hunches.

It's a hoax. Sorry, it just is. You are duped. There are many good mormon people, albeit deluded. And I feel ok about using the word "stupid" because I was there too. I was stupid. I look back on it now and just want to cringe.

If you are staying in the church for social reasons, great. Everyone needs to find what works for them. So many mormons just cannot really function if they lived where there are not a lot of mormons or they couldn't have a social group full of mormons. But just admit it. I have joined another church and I will fully admit, it's for social reasons. And I embrace their principles because it is principle-oriented, not dogma oriented. But it is not the "true church," because there isn't one. It's what works for me. It's where I find the kind of people I want to hang with. But we have much more "spiritual" services than the mormons do. Just admit the leaders are con artists, but you are addicted to the caste system and social structure of it.

I don't know how Ken Clark did it for so long, but I admire him for finally being able to say, "Hey, it's a hoax. I know it and you should to."

Excellent summary of Mormonism's numerous problems. Let's see how many of these will be honestly dealt with in LDS "fess-up" essays. I would guess very few - if any!

It is difficult to see how any thinking person with an open mind could carefully read the entire document and still want anything to do with that enormous fraud and hoax called Mormonism.

Jiminycricket, you kick ass so many ways from Sunday it's not funny. Thanks for taking the time to do this. Gonna spread the love with it... sharing it on the NOM board.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2014 01:36PM by Bite Me.

Jimineycricket.
Thank you for the kind edits. You reminded that Inowe you some additional homework.

I noticed that I completely forgot to include anything (lies) about the Book of Abraham, and yet the list is already too long.

Thank you again for the kind recognition.

Ken

Kenc,

Thank You. You did the tough work. Reformatting was nothing compared to your scholarship. I don't think the list is too long. I welcome another update. You can add a section on the BoA. Send it to me. We'll make sure the pdf and MT are updated.

You rock.

ETA: Thank you Bite Me.

jc ☺



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2014 06:48PM by jiminycricket.

Remember well the Priary lesson where the Law came looking for mormon leaders as Polygs and the kids lied to them = and laughed about it afterward.

A sick Primary lesson - preparing kids to jusfify lying.

Well done Ken and Mr. Cricket.

Excellent post thank you!

Second that.

Fantastic. I plan on printing it out. I found one minor error. On point 32 it is stated "Martha Brotherton, an 18 year‐old convert from England" then a few sentences later "Her parents were not informed or invited, though she would be regarded as a dependent minor today."

18 is considered an adult today. I don't see this as a big issue and only brought it up cause it will trigger a TBMs need to think 'that is not true, what else in here is not true, these are lies!'

Actually, when I was young the age of majority was 21. It was lowered to 18 in the late 1960's due to the Vietnam war. A lot of protesting was done due to the fact that you could be drafted and die for your county at 18, but were not an adult until you were 21.

I have always felt bad that I was 20 when John Kennedy ran and was never able to vote for him.

I don't feel that the statement is completely wrong, but should be changed to indicate that such was the case at that time.

"though she would HAVE BEEN regarded as a dependent minor AT THAT TIME."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2014 10:45AM by Templar.