A couple of times a month my TBM mother-in-law forwards links to articles she reads on LDS Living. Today she sent this one (http://www.ldsliving.com/story/75704-did-lincoln-read-the-book-of-mormon) about what the author of the article calls his "Lincoln Hypothosis." The author theorizes that during the time period that Lincoln's son was dying and the Civil War was occurring, Lincoln had a spiritual "conversion" and that the BoM may have influenced his decisions: "Right in the middle of his conversion, while Willie was dying, while the Christian nurse was teaching, while he was passing through what he called his “process of crystallization,” Lincoln had a copy of the Book of Mormon, which he himself had requested from the Library of Congress. Having kept it for nearly eight months, Lincoln finally returned it to the Library a mere seven days after issuing his first draft of the Emancipation Proclamation to his cabinet. Was this merely a coincidence? Did Lincoln begin to insert Book of Mormon principles—even Book of Mormon language—into his speeches and policies? After having the book, did he actually change his opinion on Mormons and begin to treat them more kindly than any American president up until that time? The evidence seems to add up to the affirmative, suggesting that the Book of Mormon had influenced the president. This might have been at least partially responsible for the fundamental shift in American policy during the war: the eradication of slavery and the constitutional protection for God’s people. Or, as Lincoln declared at Gettysburg, “under God . . . a new birth of freedom.”"

At least they have allowed comments that state how Brigham Young felt about Lincoln and also Lincoln's passing of the Morrill Anti-bigamy Act.

From the New York Times "Opinionator" November 17, 2011"

"On Oct. 20, 1861, a vital piece of the Utah puzzle was solved, as the final lines of a telegraph were strung together, linking the
Atlantic seaboard to the Pacific, through an office in Salt Lake City. On that auspicious occasion, which spoke so loudly of union, Brigham Young remarked,“Utah has not seceded, but is firm for the Constitution and laws of our once happy country.” Those were words guaranteed to warm Lincoln’s heart. Two days later, more good news, as General J. Arlington Bennett wrote him to ask if he could recruit 1,000-10,000 Mormons to fight for the Union.

But the question was far from solved, and on Nov. 18, Lincoln attacked the Mormon question in a most Lincolnian way. Instead of ordering an invasion, Lincoln ordered information. Specifically, he asked the Library of Congress to send him a pile of books about Mormonism, so that the aggregator-in-chief could better understand them. These included “The Book of Mormon” in its original 1831 edition, and three other early studies of the Mormons, with extensive, lurid chapters covering their polygamy. For some reason, he also ordered a volume of Victor Hugo, in French, a language he could not read.

Fortified by his reading, Lincoln came to a great decision. And that decision was to do nothing. Sometimes that, too, can be a form of leadership — what Churchill called “a masterly inactivity.”

Typically, Lincoln reached his decision through a homely parable, told to a Mormon emissary:

'When I was a boy on the farm in Illinois there was a great deal of timber on the farm which we had to clear away. Occasionally we would come to a log which had fallen down. It was too hard to split, too wet to burn, and too heavy to move, so we plowed around it. You go back and tell Brigham Young that if he will let me alone I will let him alone.'

That parable is about as much as we will get in the way of a formal explanation, but it is enough. To his generous store of common sense, we might also add the freshness of Lincoln’s memories of the bloodshed at Nauvoo in 1844, when angry mobs had killed the Mormon leaders, with elected officials standing by and doing nothing. And the centrality of Utah to the grand vision of a transcontinental republic, embraced fully by America’s most western president to date."

This is a good example of Mormons trying to make themselves the center of the universe.

Lincoln was at odds with the Mormons. He ran on a campaign of ending "twin relics of barbarism slavery and polygamy". Brigham Young considered Lincoln one of the "cursed scoundrels who sought our destruction from the beginning," The relationship between Mormons and Lincoln was less than cordial.

When Lincoln told Young that, "if he will let me alone I will let him alone.", it was because Lincoln was already fighting one war and didn't want to deal with another insurrection.

It is possible that Lincoln read the Book of Mormon. But I have a hard time believing it influenced presidential policy.

I would say it is possible that Abe read 1 Nephi but that's as far as we should go...

I agree. Lincoln became a state representative around the time that BY and company left Nauvoo, correct? He surely knew all about the mormons before that. If he did read any of the Bom, I'm sure it was LONG before the civil war.

As a lad I heard that plow around em quote often.

We all know that BY was fond of Dixie (both the old and his very own new) but we also know he was a'quakin in his boots over AL's intentions about MMM which kept him from considering out Jeff Davis's side.

Alas, that silly un-civil war saved the Brigand's sorry hide.

Were it not for that, is there any doubt Honest Abe would have ended up picking out a new neck tie for our Mr Young?

I just saw this article and find it absolute bullshit. The way the writer eludes to Lincoln reading the Book of Mormon, uses the buzz word "conversion" and promotes Joseph Smith's comments about the Civil War as prophecy is scandalous.

Weak sauce.

Weak sauce? You must live in Utah. Only place I've ever heard that odd saying.

I have seen 'awesome sauce' on a TV commercial and the girl who says it seems like a mormon.

I said "weak sauce" not "FRY SAUCE."

Hahaha!

Either way it sounds Saucie to me!

I just dont understand why they would think the BoM could even remotely inspire the emancipation proclamation.

The mormons weren't exactly abolitionists. and the book isn't favorable of non-white races.

http://mormonthink.com/glossary/abraham-lincoln.htm

More on Lincoln and the Mormons

technical note:

Once a (federal) statute is enacted, it isn't Exactly up to the chief executive to enforce it as the MormonThink article suggests;


enforcement is up to the police officers of whatever jurisdiction was involved & the courts.

Also, in those years, federal connection to Utah (territory as of 9/1850) was extremely tenuous. The geographic, social, & information link was hardly established. The MMM was in 1857.

I agree this hypothesis is worm-poo.

Not true. Federal laws are enforced by the federal government under the control of the Executive. State police generally don't enforce federal laws.

Moreover courts don't have enforcement powers. If the executive refuses to enforce a court's decision (Brown v. Board of Education for roughly a decade), it doesn't get enforced.

ChurchCo involvement in the U.S. civil war: Huge Joke!!

Whether Lincoln read it or not......does it matter? Just another attempt to try and prove something is true by using someone's celebrity to do so. I thought that Jesus desired to be with those that are downtrodden and heavy laden and yet MoMo's try and use celebrity as a means to prove it was true. "Hey, everybody seems to love Abraham Lincoln....and.....he possibly read the BoM........therefore........it is true.... Amen"

What bother's me about this question is that LDS people try and spin it as further proof of the church and attempt to claim Lincoln was converted. If he was converted, then why didn't he reach out and get baptized? Obviously when dealing with a group of people who have shown hostility towards there own country, brought up a militia, etc. should be investigated, and it sounds like the President was doing just that.

The claim of Lincoln's conversion to me rings a bit like the myth that one or all three or the three Nephites showed up during the writing of the Constitution and told the founding Father's what to put in it. Facts people..... There's more evidence that Lincoln was in a homosexual relationship(s) that there is that he converted.... Meaning that the evidence for him being gay is questionable, and him thinking the church was truth even more highly suspect.

"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession" -- Abraham Lincoln

According to the movie "Patton;" Patton read Rommel's book to see how he thought before defeating him in Africa. Patton didn't "convert."

Oh geez. Mormons always seem to be grasping at straws to prove the church is true. If there was any real proof, they wouldn't have to do that.

This reminds me of an article that my TBM MIL read to me with tears in her eyes about the geographic similarites between Israel and Utah. Because Israel is where Christ walked and Utah is supposedly similar to it, then that means Mormons are a chosen people, Utah is a blessed and chosen land and the church is true.

So, now the church is true because Lincoln may have read the BofM. When will the "proof" of the church's truthfulness end?

"Ski Mount Hermon!"

If it's "faith promoting" it kinda doesn't matter if it's true. It just needs trigger the intended emotional response. For many TBMs, it's a hair trigger.

Self disproving.

Let's assume Abe read the BOM cover to cover. That he didn't believe it is evidenced by the fact that it played no part in his life going forward. He never joined the church or spoke in favour of the book. Therefore the spirit had zero influence on witnessing to the 'truth' of the book to the one man that could have greatly influenced LDS fortunes Turning a rolling stone into a mountain.

Further, Abe was for the freedom of the black people, brigham was not, brigham's writings declare their status as heavenly ordained beneath white people. Who was more inspired Abe or brigham? Well, in light of the new race and priesthood essay and the absolute disavowel of early LDS positions on the matter, it appears that brigham was thoroughly uninspired and racist as where the views of Abe were far more enlightened and led to the position that the church today considers as right.

With that being the case, and when we factor in Adam God and other such inputs from Brigham that were later disavowed, it is clear that the man in charge of the nation, Abe, was far more of an inspired and enlightened leader than 'gods own' prophet. Therefore, does any argument exist to show LDS leaders are today any more inspired than Barrack Obama or David Cameron?

The church has form in arriving after the party on issues such as race, polygamy and women's rights, and gay rights. But a habit of trying to claim to their followers that all such progressive ideas were actually theirs in the first place!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2014 03:26AM by lilburne.

My 5th greatgrandmother was a 1st cousin to Lincoln. Lincoln would have never joined or have been converted to the likes of mormonism in any way. He was a critical thinker. He knew bull shit when he saw it. I found out about my ancestory through the churches geneology site when I was a YM president, we had a laural/Priest combined night where we looked up our ancestors. From then, I was directed to a family web site where many of the Lincoln ancestors from this line frequent (i.e. photos, history, etc.). No mormons there. That was over 10 years ago, and not long after that I began finding out about the dark underbelly of the church (i.e racism). Lincoln, obviously, deplored racism. Wishful thinking on the mormons part to want to include one of the greatest presidents in US history in their gang.

I bet he read it up til the part where joe smith wrestled the bear

From the understanding of empirical information: Abraham Lincoln had an atheistic perspective and of course secular. Later in life coming to believe in the "Divinity" of Jesus Of Nazareth as portrayed in the Canonic Bible (regardless of denominations). (look it up yourselves)

As a critical thinker, Lawyer and politician, it is not inconceivable that the mention of Mormons(especially with the peculiarities of the time("a prophet,polygamy etc etc."). Sparked curiosity. The book of Mormon obviously would be something he would take a look at, or delegate it.

[To see if a threat, or what it was etc. The only foolish thing would be: not to know what your "peculiar" apparently strange neighbor believes and especially when they hold so tightly to a new book claiming to be another testament of Christ.] (Look it up yourselves)

in my opinion:
If Abraham did read it or the depth of which he read it personally or not, I don't know, but it would make sense as a political move to see what, who, and which side "the mormons" might take on the civil war etc. Makes sense from an objective point of view.

The Emancipation Proclamation is clear, concise, and coherent. It came to pass that I see, view from far off even as one who sees, no BoM influence.

Lincoln's client in 1839 was a victim of Daniel H. Wells on the jury convicting William Fraime, though Wells only officially became a mormon a few years later.

Thois is what I don't like about how they write this stuff......

"Was this merely a coincidence?"

"Did Lincoln begin to insert Book of Mormon principles—even Book of Mormon language—into his speeches and policies?"

"After having the book, did he actually change his opinion on Mormons and begin to treat them more kindly than any American president up until that time?"

"The evidence seems to add up to the affirmative"

Several speculative questions followed by a "seems to add up" statement.....and what evidence? That he borrowed a BOM and returned it?

TBM's read this type of nonsense and take it as hard science with real evidence backing it up when its nothing more than speculative questions and a speculative answer based on nothing.

Keep in mind that as a young prairie pol, Abe rode the circuits thereabout and through Nauvoo and we can easily imagine him even sitting through a Smith sermon or two.

Back when he was young I'm pretty sure Abe Lincoln knew all he really needed to know about Horny Joe's gold bible.

Too funny. I've read team of rivals which is a great book. Lincoln kept no religion, and felt he would return to dust, as it were, when he died. His wife Mary was rather religious, though quite neurotic. His observation of religious occasions was more in support of her. Fawn Brody pointed out that Lincolns name was scratched from the state legislative list of candidates that Smith circulated for Mormon voters. As pointed out he was the republican party candidate founded on the platform against polygamy. He didn't hold grudges, and was a thinker. It's more likely he just wanted to know what he was dealing with, instead of some fantastical conversion.

Besides, few people convert reading the bom alone. They have to pray about it and get that burning sensation, which is either indigestion or the Spirit. :-)

Well, I have heard he was an insomniac(Lincoln), that might explain his possible reading. But, wasn't he busy fighting vampires?

tensolator Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, I have heard he was an insomniac(Lincoln),
> that might explain his possible reading.

'Chloroform in print'

I'd believe Lincoln was fighting vampires over Lincoln even considering mormonism.

Grew up in IL and had to learn state history in school. Never heard about the mormons. Just not that important.

Lincoln said, "If I were two-faced would I be wearing this one?".

He forgot to pray about it, so he only read the words.

I doubt he'd even pick the damn book up. I'd be a fool to if I didn't know better.

M@t

I hope not. It's useless for anything other than studying fraud.

I don't know where he found the time, what with slaying vampires with his axe. Which is a lot more believable than Joe's ersatz scriptures.

We know that Mark Twain, too, read the Book of Mormon. Can we then conclude that the BOM influenced Twains later writings?

Yawn. God, that article reads like so many other asinine Mormon apologia. As others have noted, 'seems to add up', 'merely a coincidence'? Just leading questions with no real answers. Like the explanations for the horses in the BOM. 'Tapirs SEEM like horses...'

If you're a moron, they do.

"Now, what is this 'Book Of Mormon' all about? Hmmm, looks a boring read to me. Awww, to hell with it. I'll make a start when I get back from the theatre."

(sorry).

Donny Osmond talked about Elvis Presley reading the BOM. The Osmonds were close friends with EP. Mrs. Osmond talked to him daily. EP supposedly was searching to know the truth. He never got baptized and also rejected Scientology. He called Scientology a "cobra."

With the troubles of the war bearing heavily on his mind
president Lincoln had trouble sleeping at night. It was making
him unable to perform the duties of his office. An acquaintance
recommended he read the Book of Mormon each night. He did, and,
each night, within five minutes of opening the book, he was fast
asleep. So Abraham Lincoln's presidency was saved by the Book of
Mormon.

As an active lawyer and politician covering the political (not religious) issues of his day, I highly doubt he had time or inclination to concern himself with a charlatan masquerading as a prophet.

For Lincoln, the BoM would've been nothing more then "chloroform in print," as Mark Twain was fond of saying. And Twain did attempt reading it just long enough to cast his aspersions.

https://deseretbook.com/p/lincoln-hypothesis-timothy-ballard-92100?variant_id=134532-paperback

some MORmON is making the claim that Lincoln was inspired by the Book of MORmON to the extent of the BOM being the thing that encouraged Lincoln to press on with the AMerican Civil War. That is almost as dumb as Christ coming to America (when there really was no Christ)

As I indicated in 2014 above, I am a direct descendant of Lincoln. On behalf of the family of Lincoln, I will tell you most emphatically that Lincoln saw the cult for what it was back then - a crazy fanatical cult. He was a smart man, and not fooled by ridiculous evidence-voided claims.

(see my input above too)

Are you coming to us from the other side? Please tell us what happens after one passes through the veil.

Or tell us about the grand family reunions attended by Abraham Lincoln's many direct descendants.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2019 02:38AM by scmd1.

Oh, thanks for asking. Yes, the other side of the veil is so cool. The first thing they do is ask if you want to kick scmd1's bootys, and it's amazing. Everybody says, "YES..indeed we do", with such fervor. It's heartwarming, the unity, etc.

I get what you're saying, I think. Look, if these bozo's, like the Moron who wrote the book in the link (in this thread) and elsewhere, can make up the bullcrap that spews from their idiot mouths about Lincoln - well then indeed, I as an actual bonafide ancestor of the man - can speak for him. Right? Isn't that fair. Why couldn't I? What gives them the credibility to speak for the man. It's maddening for me to hear that Lincoln would have regarded the BOM as anything but pure unadulterated bull ****. I know it my genes...which speaketh truth unto me..scmd1!

P.S. Actually there are "grand family reunions" in the flesh every year the DC/Baltimore area for our line. They are grand...very much so. I have been to a few, but we have an extensive family website, i.e. photos of the reunions, family stories, calendar of events, etc. Thanks for the inquiry.

You really should alert Google as to the existence of a
living direct descendant of #16. They're still operating under the assumption that the last living descendant died in 1985.

My uncle by marriage claims to be a descendant of two of Lincoln's great-grandparents.IF (and it's a very large IF) he's not lying, he's your distant cousin. I'll tell him about the family reunions he has missed.

I'm a direct descendant of JFK, so we have something in common.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2019 03:16PM by scmd1.

Interesting!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_family


Who knew?

Given how widely dispersed the Book of Mormon has been, it shouldn't surprise us if it has been read by some famous people somewhere. By "read", I don't mean cover to cover, necessarily.

Whether it has been read by the head honchos it was handed to - Lincoln, and I think Queen Victoria - is another matter. Certainly Mark Twain read it, and Arthur Conan Doyle probably read some of it too. Twain was not impressed by it.

Personally, I think Lincoln was something of a hypocrite when it came to black rights, much like Jefferson was.

Mormonism follows. Not the other way around.

Lincoln had no use for such propaganda and nonsense.

When you are a small, dipstick religious sect, one unknown to most of the planet, you've got to rely on a bit of hyperbole to make your diminished circumstances more palatable: hence, the Abe Lincoln/Mormon fantasy.


Recall that the Founding Fathers alledgedly appeared in a dream to Wilford Woodruff, "begging to have their temple work done". This makes the Declaration of Independence a Mormon-authored document, and the United States a country founded by Mormons.


The smaller the sect, the greater the need for hyperbole - even of the most imbecilic variety.

Ell-hay, Oh-nay.

Brigham Young and Joseph Smith alike both favored slavery. Neither was opposed to it. They both owned slaves!

Lincoln was not presupposed to fringe cult religions on the frontier taking off like wildfire with lunatics running them.

He had enough else to do running a country.

Young and Smith could've borrowed a lesson from Lincoln if they were more pro-American instead of trying to secede from the Union (yes they were trying to secede and form their own country.) Joseph first, followed by Brigham. Young wanted to make Utah into a separate government but failed. Joseph tried to form a separate government as well, and you see how badly that ended.

They were both mavericks, not patriots. Their polygamy alone speaks volumes as to how law abiding they really were (not.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2019 11:43AM by Amyjo.