I am wondering if any of you know the current rule for BYU exmormons. I am a catholic and want to have a local catholic leader sign my ecclesiastic endorsement for BYU, but don't know if I can if I am technically an exmormon (but my name is still on their records)?

Save yourself the trouble and go to University of Utah instead.

You are sunk trying to get into BYU as an exmo.

IF YBU is more attractive (program, location) go for it; we'd like to know the answer for your Q.


Don't you KNOW if you're still considered a member or not?

were you baptized? Have you resigned?

Out of curiosity, why would an exmormon want to go to BYU? Your life would be a living hell.

Here is the text from the honor code:

"Students must be in good Honor Code standing to be admitted to, continue enrollment at, and graduate from BYU. The term 'good Honor Code standing' means that a student's conduct is consistent with the Honor Code and the ideals and principles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Excommunication, disfellowshipment, or disaffiliation from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints automatically results in the loss of good Honor Code standing."

http://saas.byu.edu/catalog/2013-2014ucat/GeneralInfo/HonorCode.php

And joining another church is immediate grounds for excommunication, so you're screwed - unless you can completely hide the fact that you were ever Mormon somehow.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2014 03:21PM by kimball.

That's interesting. I knew non-members at BYU that still had to have an endorsement from outside religious leaders. According to want2bx, it sounds like that's changed. Won't your tuition be about 4 times higher if you're enrolling as a non-member?

Non-Mormons are eligible to enter BYU and need an ecc. endorsement from their personal minister. If they don't have a personal minister, I believe they can get an endorsement from a BYU "chaplain" of sorts, though I don't know that for a fact.

It is ex-Mormons that are not eligible to attend. We scares them.

Actually, if you read the Handbook for Bishops and Stake Presidents, joining another church is not automatic grounds for excommunication. If you start actively proselytizing for your new church (and especially if you diss TSCC in the process), then you get ex'd.

plus, they've got a ton of non-ecc. reasons not to admit (anyone).


btw: is the story/post about playing primary songs at BYUI graduation 'commencement' accurate? O M G!

Ecclesiastical Endorsements have to be signed by a Mormon leader. At one time, BYU allowed other religious leaders to sign them, but not anymore. Seeing as you're an exmo, I doubt you'll get in anyway.

ETA: Wait, I take what I wrote back. I looked it up and it looks like you can have another religious leader sign it. You'll just have to submit a paper form rather than submitting it online. I still don't know how you'll get past the exmo thing though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2014 03:47PM by want2bx.

does a Bp (or SP) have access to list of former members, ex-d and/or resigned ???

Doesn't matter. BYU does.

A never Mormon is a potential convert...an exMormon is a threat.

Only a nevermo BYU student would be able to get away with that type of endorsement, since students who are LDS or who convert, are basically stuck in the church until they actually get their degree and final transcripts.

To get BACK into BYU, you would have to pretend to be active again. If you've never been to BYU, however, I'm not sure how those in the admissions office would have any idea if you had ever been Mormon, especially if you've never resigned or have never been exed. I doubt that they check every applicant against some world-wide membership database. To be safe, it might be a good idea to use an address from an area where you've never had any known affiliation with the LDS church, so that if the local leadership were contacted, no one would know anything about you. Even that seems highly unlikely.

Like others, I wonder why you'd want to go there, but I wish you luck.

I think it is highly likely that they check all applicants against church records for someone with the same name, birthdate, and perhaps birthplace. They want to catch anyone who is disfellowshipped or had their membership otherwise sanctioned, or who is an exmo or to confirm that they are a nevermo. Computers can make such a check without any difficulty.

They then would have to process the "hits" by hand to see if there are any false positives, but there wouldn't be very many, so easy to check.

Do you really think they do that?

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it is highly likely that they check all
> applicants against church records for someone with
> the same name, birthdate, and perhaps birthplace.
> They want to catch anyone who is disfellowshipped
> or had their membership otherwise sanctioned, or
> who is an exmo or to confirm that they are a
> nevermo. Computers can make such a check without
> any difficulty.
>
> They then would have to process the "hits" by hand
> to see if there are any false positives, but there
> wouldn't be very many, so easy to check.

If your name is on the LDS records, you are taking a terrible chance. If you are discovered, BYU could kick you out mid-semester, resulting in a loss of both tuition and credits. The school could deny you your transcripts and put a blot on your record that would be very, very difficult to explain to other colleges. The risk, IMO, is not worth it.

In-state tuition for the University of Utah is not that much more. BYU will charge undergraduates $2,500 per semester next year. The U is currently charging $3,255.50 (plus fees) per semester for 15 credits. For about $1,500 more per year (which is not a lot in the scheme of things) you get no need for an ecclesiastical endorsement, no one looking over your shoulder to make sure you are keeping the standards, the ability to live where and how you want, a much more diverse student body, professors who can speak their minds, a Mormon-free resume, and no need to worry that you will be kicked out for something silly. To my way of thinking, it's a bargain.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2014 12:49AM by summer.

If you're on LDS records, you're supposed to have an LDS ecclesiastical endorsement. They have no way of correlating with baptism records, though - it's not like the church gets your SS number when you're baptized or anything.

Resigned members are not permitted to attend BYU.

Active members of other faiths were, when I went through, required to get an endorsement either from their ecclesiastical leader or the local LDS leader.

Even if you *weren't* an ex-Mo, why as a Catholic would you want to go to a university run by a faith that teaches the Catholic Church is the "great and abominable whore"?

I would think it depends on when and how you went exmo.

If you were active and just left in high school while family is still TBM or something like that then you likely can't get in.

However I would think that if someone is on the records only because they were blessed as a baby and maybe even baptized, but never really attended and perhaps the family all left and the person then went to the Catholic Church through much of their life so far and basically identify as catholic in the long term (not just a recent disaffection) ... that even though their name may technically still be on the Mormon roles, that they'd then accept an endorsement from your catholic priest.

After all, if your parents left when you were young and you were just along for the ride, so to speak, and raised Catholic even though technically still a member of TSCC you probably are still a potential convert or activation/recovery project.

Like so much else it's probably variable depending on the situation ... And who processes the application that day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2014 12:40AM by Scott.T.

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It seems like any polity they have at BYU would have to be objective to keep BYU from being sued or somehow sanctioned by the government. So if someone actually wants to go to BYU after resigning or being excommunicated, it seems like there should be a way that prohibits religious discrimination against you. Otherwise, they're running a private club, not a university. If you resign from the church, join a different church, and get the proper signatures from your new church's eccleastical leaders, who is LDS Inc. to say you're not being a moral person now? What ever you did to get excommunicated for or what ever you resigned over is now the business of your new religious leaders from your new church, not the business of LDS Inc. If the leaders from your new church say you're a moral person, then they have to be trusted. Otherwise you could say that since the catholic church is the great and abomodimal church, that no signature from that church can be accepted. they don't dare do that. If they treat you different because you belong to a different church, they're discriminating and you have grounds for a law suit against BYU. Maybe this is a good way for excommunicated Mormons to finish their degrees after they've been kicked out of the church. You could stay home from church every sunday and tell your BYU dorm room mates that they belong to a cult, and still end up standing next to them at graduation. No one can force you to maintain that the church is true for you to be elegible for school attendance.

Taking the rule literally, one only loses standing if they are ALREADY a student. If you resign BEFORE applying, they would be wrong in denying you the right to be a student. It should also be true that prior membership and resignation should not even be discoverable from church records. You just have to be willing to abide by the BYU honor code and have a confirmation for some other source. Give it a try and if they reject on the basis of your prior resignation, sue.

Knowing how the Mormon social network works, it would be interesting to see how many minutes it would take the first day of classes, for word that such and such person (who resigned their church membership), is back attending classes again as an ex-mormon, to reach the admissions office. A friend of mine in the 80's who got excommunicated during summer break forged his bishop's signature to attend the following year. He didn't tell anyone either. A friend of one of the women he had sex with turned him in since she knew he had been excommunicated that previous summer. He lasted a few months before they figured out what he did and kicked him out. It's not like he was risking anything since he had already been excommunicated. I don't think he ever paid his student loans either. The academic credits he had accumulated were worthless outside of a church school.