Has anyone heard anything new about Michael Quinn's book on church finances? I recall seeing a few things last year, but haven't heard anything since...

I think he has been working on it for years...It seems though that he has dropped off the face of the earth. The church has gone through great lengths to banish him. He may not have the finances himself to finish the project.

I thought I'd read that the manuscript had been sent to Signature Books and was supposed to be published this year, but I've heard nothing more about it.

I emailed them a couple of months ago about it.

I received the reply to check back late this summer. They said it would be possible to see it out next year and they might have a better idea in the summer.

Does Quinn even post on rfm ???

Anybody have an update about the book. David Tweede is probably reading some of the drafts hopefully.

Crickets.....

Would love to read it.

If Michael Quinn doesn't have financial resources for his book, I'm sure many would be willing to donate money for it. I know I would.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2015 09:27AM by deconverted2010.

He should set up a Kickstarter campaign. I'm sure lots of Exmos would contribute.

I spoke to someone at Benchmark Books that had seen the manuscript. Said it was massive. That person thought Signature would publish it in the next year or two.

Maybe he could collaborate with a writer to get a readable 250 page version. There are writers who write accounts on financial, historical, etc subjects that read like a novel - they are hard to put down. That's what will make a difference.

I'm mystified as to how such a book could be massive. As we all know, the amount of information on church finances is so limited. I imagine any book on church finances as being on the Mad Magazine list of "Very Thin books."

A Quinn book becomes massive due to the copious references included. There is no denying the research that goes into a Quinn book!

Edited for spelling.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2015 01:33PM by moose.

Quinn stated that he was working on the book back in 2012; but also as quoted in the Bloomberg article "How Mormons Make their Money". --"Regarding management of the church's considerable investments, Quinn said "[s]everal high-ranking church insiders told him that the church's finances are so compartmentalized that no single person, not even the president, knows the entirety of its holdings".http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2012-07-10/how-the-mormons-make-money

I like a lot of Americans think of the corporation as a non-profit church who does own quite a few property holdings as in temples, churches, seminary buildings. I also knew about the cattle ranches, wood farms, fruit/vegetable farms. When I was TBM I assumed most of these were for Bishop Storehouse, church welfare.

Now we know that they own property and businesses in quite a few countries. These properties are just a tip of the ice berg. They're now asking members to give property and stocks in wills; so who knows what stocks they "inherited". Do they own stocks and bonds in cities/counties??? Do they own stock in TBM owned businesses? Mitt's, Southwest, Marriott, Osmond's?

All I can say is that the finances of TSCC are so diverse, shady and as pointed out so convoluted and large that not even the Great President/Grand Pubah / King of the World doesn't have any idea what they own or are invested in. So Quinn is probably getting spreadsheets, tax returns, audits together but the businesses are being sold off, split, etc... that it could change in a year so that somethings he could report on and print would become redundant and old news by the time the book was published. This would just give fodder to some Morgbots who would claim "lies, falsehoods, old news, etc..."

Things like owning the Mall is something that they can spin off as a "loss" because they bought and built it before the great property market/banking recession just a few years back (so much for prophecy, them paying almost twice the value for what the property is worth).

So let's give Quinn some slack, He may have to start out with history-- the Kirtland Bank scandals, the Nauvoo properties, ZCMI, Deseret books, Zion Bank, Children's Primary Hospital, United Order settlements that would sell their excess wheat and livestock for a profit (but these are co-ops not church owned, yet the profits would often be sent to SLC).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2015 02:39PM by dydimus.

From the book fees, the publisher may just have to run a webpage URL printed in the book for the nitty gritty details if it does change hands.

They could probably get some amazon cloud servers running as needed and spin them up once a week or whatever to allow you to run your own numbers, categories, and play around with the properties and assets.

Hopefully the deep throat is one of the financial guys getting ready to retire and spill the beans unofficially of course. The church might not even sue because then that would drag out more information into the court filing and records. Just spit balling here.

Here is a great example of some of the past and present financial standings of TSCC.
http://bycommondissent.org/2015/03/09/the-corporation-we-call-a-church/

It sounds so easy like someone wanting to do a movie about Nauvoo; when in actuality it should be a mini-series like Centennial was or a series on HBO like Deadwood. All of the lust, violence, bloody conspiracies, etc... And that's just Nauvoo, imagine adding in the previous making of TSCC then adding in the Utah settlements!!!

dydimus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is a great example of some of the past and
> present financial standings of TSCC.
> http://bycommondissent.org/2015/03/09/the-corporat
> ion-we-call-a-church/
>
I saw that link earlier this week. It's a great synopsis. I've added the information to my ongoing OneNote file about the church corporate structure and financial history.

I'm aware that a final Draft has been submitted to the publisher. So excited to read this.

D. Michael Quinn is to "writing" as the IRS is to having a few rules...

I checked out his "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View" but could only have it for two weeks, cuz it was pulled from some university's 'stacks'. It was so heavily barnacled with references and cross-references that I tired of trying to slog my way through it.

The notion mentioned earlier in this thread that he should collaborate with someone to put out a 200 page novelization of the larger book's content makes really good sense!

Well at least the reader can take DMQ's source work to the bank so to speak.

Unlike Nibley who inserted more phony footnotes than actual verifiable ones.

Signature has again moved back the release date on their website--from Nov 2016 to February 2017.

Anyone know anything more?

I would think with a prominent name in the mormon intellectual community he wouldn't have a problem getting it fully financed. I spoke with a CEO of a large publishing company a few years ago and he told me that it's a great honor to do the publishing for folks like Billy Graham and that publishers fight over the rights to do it. They also foot the bill and are expected to pay the whole thing, generous royalties and all. These are the perks the likes of Joel Ostien and Oprah Winphry enjoy. It's the little people that have to pay more of the lions share for printing.

The Ceo told me that Brother Billy came to the office one day and his men practically dictated the whole arrangement, and what they expected. The Publisher kept very quiet for the man of god... the man of money.

The Mormon intellectual community is minuscule compared to the evangelical Christian community and Oprah fandom.

I have all of Quinn's previous books, but I'm an unusual case.

I preordered it on Amazon months ago. It was supposed to come out in October, but now Amazon says:

"Delivery estimate: We need a little more time to provide you with a good estimate. We'll notify you via e-mail as soon as we have an estimated delivery date."

I've checked around, but have not found any other news about the book.

I pre-ordered too but I am a fairly patient person, esp. for a Quinn book.

Amazon indicates the release date is Feb. 15, 2017. 800 pages.

Title: Wealth and Corporate Power.

I wish I could get excited about this book but I know that Quinn will have very limited knowledge of the church's recent finances since the church stopped publishing its financial statements back in the 1950's (or was it the 1960's?).

We can do a lot of speculating but the real silver bullet in my opinion is the TOTAL revenue the church brings in (tithing plus investment income) and a DETAILED BREAKDOWN of where this money gets spent. No one has this even, so its been speculated, even the apostles.

It would be a very humbling revelation to the members if they actually knew how the church spent their hard earned cash. The "Brethren" won't be as charitable and wise as they think they are.

Given that mormonleaks keeps leaking financial data, and the 4th-hand rumor is that Quinn keeps trying to update the book with the latest data, we may never see this book.

Amazon tells me my prepaid order is to be filled in august 2017 a bump from the previous june date-here's hoping.


the chruch will regret it no longer has FARMS because rebuttal of michael personally ,ad hominem , and his work will be necessary to makke the faithful believe "nothing new here"so move along.
so bring out woody midgely, hambone and donut dan and greg smith-they wallow in this stuff.

I asked the editors last year, and they said the delay is that they are simply trying to get it right. It is 800 pages I've heard.

Godspeed D Michael.

This is too important to not get everything exactly right.

This is gonna be yuge.