I have two different questions:

There are many people who leave the church and become atheist, which is fine, but I am just wondering if there is anyone on this board that went from Mormonism to Christianity? I myself became a Christian. I would be interested to hear anyone's story, who is willing to share, about transitioning from Mormonism to Christianity.


On a different note, I have another question. I believe in not having sex before marriage and living a morally clean life. I don’t mean to over generalize, but I feel like a lot of people who leave Mormonism drop their morals. I can understand why it happens after feeling bound by the church and finally realizing you have freedom of choice. But that is not the path I chose. So, I am wondering is there anyone on this board who has left the church but still believes in a moral life?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2014 08:13PM by bella10.

I have recently come to be aware of the many untruths that I was taught growing up and I still strongly believe in Jesus and God etc. Some I think may have so much hurt that they can't deal with any of it maybe for good or for a time. I have to say the day after long weeks of research and such, when I finally realized that Mormonism was a LIE I had a huge relief lifted off my shoulders. I do still cling to Christianity and love God and Jesus.

I don't think you're alone. I still do believe in a couple of things and choose to live my life trying to be more humble, kind and loving. I still do believe in God and put my faith in him. I left the church after disagreeing with some if the teachings and issues with its history and its accuracy.

People don't just drop all their morals because they've found freedom. I guess that since the Mormon church has kept all of us in a tight leash and told us what we should and shouldn't do, we tend to venture more out there and find our own truth and what kind of morals we should have now that we're out. So yes, I guess a lot of ex-Mormons start drinking and have sex and do all those things but in the long run, it's finding out the truth for yourself instead of blindly obliging to an organization who just controls you. So we all have our own ways of going about our lives after the church. You are definitely not alone though.

As a nevermo who lived in Salt Lake City, I can only report my personal observation that mormons are as immoral as any other group of people I've ever been around. Except they lie to themselves about being more moral.

Mormonism is a very low moral bar.

One reason I am an atheist is because religions do not have morals up to my standards.

I am not so lacking in morals that I need a stick and carrot religion manipulating me by making me think atheists are immoral.

If your religion is all that is keeping you from being an immoral person, I hope you will stay in church. If you lost your faith, I could not trust you because you have admitted you don't think you could be a good person without a god running your life.

What is a higher moral standard:

Being moral for the sake of goodness itself and quality of life or...
Being moral because a god said so and won't favor you in an afterlife if you don't behave?

I suggest you study the biological basis for good and bad behavior. (The Science of Good and Evil by Shermer is one source.)

I am sorry. I didn't mean to imply that atheists are immoral. I guess I was trying to address two different topics and they got mixed up into one paragraph. I personally choose to be morally clean because it is what makes me happy not because anyone makes me or tells me to. What I was trying to ask was if there is anyone who went from Mormonism to Christianity? and also ask separately if there was anyone out there that still chooses to be morally clean because they want to be, not because of a church or God. I will fix my paragraph. Again I apologize for the confusion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2014 06:22PM by bella10.

No need to apologize.

It is common for believers to state that morals come from a god (who apparently does not have the highest morals himself, if you look at the world or read the various religious writs). We see that discussed here from time to time.

Religion has a vested interest in perpetuating the belief that your life will fall apart if you don't buy their product. It simply is not true.

You'll also see believers excusing believers who are "immoral" because they are sinners. However the moment an atheist does something the believer (or more likely, the believer's church) decides is immoral, it's because they don't believe.

The truth is, there is a smaller proportion of atheists in prisons than believers.

I think the majority of people who leave Mormonism probably do become some mainstream variety of Christian. I know I considered myself a Christian for several years after leaving Mormonism. You should find plenty of post Mormon Christians out there, but maybe not as many here at RfM.

Hmm, could there be a smaller percentage of atheists in prison because there is a much smaller per centage of atheists in the population as a whole? I really don't think that proves much. Another point,saying that religious people do good to get into heaven is every bit as offensive as saying atheists have no morals. Neither is true.

Yes, the number of atheists in prison would not make any sense unless it is a normalized value or in proportion. I would think that would be implied.

Other wise you could say there are fewer lizard collectors in prison than other groups so therefore collecting lizards makes you less likely to break the law than other groups.

As for your other statement: when religious people quit saying that someone is going to hell or being punished for doing something wrong, I will stop saying they think they are going to heaven for doing things right.

Some religious people put very little emphasis on an afterlife and many don't believe in hell. Other religions such as Hinduism believe in reincarnation and eventual Nirvana which doesnt sound like a conscious existence. Even as a religious Mormon,most of my moral standard had little to do with religion and didnt change when I left.I did what I considered right because it was right IMO,not because I was scared of God. There were a few excwptions such as the WofW,but even then I never thought a loving God was going to send my mom to hell for drinking coffee. Some religious people think like that but certainly not all.You are stereotyping

There is no standard of evidence that falsifies Mormonism but at the same time allows Christianity to be true. Put another way, if you can falsify Mormonism, you can easily falsify Christianity as well.

Those who don't are usually looking for an emotionally validating experience, not necessarily a 'true' one. They may find it in another church. However, this is a two-edged sword -- realizing that a religion may be emotionally validating compels one to realize that the LDS experience may be emotionally validating as well.

The upshot -- a true-believing Christian calling the LDS church hurtful is somewhat akin to the pot calling the kettle black.

I don't choose to believe anymore. Squaring the terrible things that happen in the Bible with the notion of a loving God was beyond my reach.

I have an absolutely sincere question for you, bella10. Okay, maybe more than one. I do not know you, so please do not infer judgement of any kind from the following question. It is just the thread provoked memories of long past debates I've enjoyed years ago over the subject of the Old Testament character of Job.

Is a self-righteous person moral, or immoral? In your world view, what is self-righteousness, and is it a sin?

I would first need to define the word moral. Coming from the Mormon world they typically use the word morality to describe someone who doesn't participate in sexual actions outside of the Mormon rules (ex. someone who doesn't have sex before marriage, who doesn't look at porn, or have affairs, etc.) This is the definition I was sort of going off of in my OP. So I guess was originally asking if anyone still believes in sexual morality (or sex only within the bounds of marriage).

But to answer your question I will look at the word moral for its actual definition not the Mormon definition. I would say that someone who is described as self-righteous is someone who is known to discriminate against and maybe even persecute those whom they think are lesser or lower in status then him/herself. So with that definition, in my personal opinion, someone who is self-righteous has an immoral flaw and it is a sin. But, I also think that everyone has self-righteous tendencies. It is a natural human flaw that no one is immune to. I don’t think you are going to find a single human being on this planet that is moral in every respect of their life. Everyone has some sort of immoral flaw whether they admit it or not.

"Is a self-righteous person moral, or immoral? In your world view, what is self-righteousness, and is it a sin?" Posted by Hmmm...

I'll bet Dagny is hoping the answer to the last is no! If self-righteousness is a sin (and it well may be!) a lot of people around here are in trouble, but not so much bella10, as far as I can see.

Poor bella. She has strayed into a hornets' nest. She asked some pretty simple direct questions -- which people then misinterpreted and used as an excuse for -- their own self-righteousness?

Although Dagny attacked her for something she didn't even say, bella10 kindly apologized and tried to clarify. That was decent of her. Then someone jumps in and hands her provable misinformation -- that Christianity and Mormonism equate. Well, as plenty of Christian denominations take a great deal of their beliefs symbolically, not so much. I speak only up only for the provable facts, something which many posters claim to support -- although I have reason to wonder...

To just answer bella's questions -- I am not a Christian and I didn't take that path, but I support others going that way if it works for them. I have heard from those who left Mormonism because it was not spiritually satisfying, and they have found other religions that work better for them -- so yes, it happens. I can't really speak to all that from experience -- but for heaven's sake don't be scared off trying on different beliefs, experiences, and communities by -- well -- anyone -- and certainly not posters confused about the range of beliefs and claims in different forms of Christianity. Literal interpretations of the Bible are not the norm, no matter how often you hear it here. The one thing I might caution, and even this might not fit you at all, is take your time -- and broaden your horizons. You know what a mess rebound relationships can be? I think you can do that with religions -- so if you can, take a year before you commit to anything, go to various services -- and step outside your comfort zone and do something Buddhist, Jewish, meditation, take a yoga class -- just try to take in all the awesome range of beliefs and practices mankind has. I mean -- you can take a class at a synagogue in the Sabbath, go to a Holi Festival of Colors, try your hand at Hanukkah candles and food.


I was more intrigued by bella10's assumption (or so it seemed to me) that "morals" equated with sexual behavior -- although maybe I didn't read that right. I don't make that equation. I don't think sexual restraint, although there is probably a lot to be said for it, is the be-all and the end-all of morality. In fact, sometimes it isn't even a virtue (to me). Important morality to me has more to do with how we treat each other. Sexual behavior can be covered by that -- but not breaking someone's heart seems so much more important than not having sex. I think sex outside of marriage CAN be fine, although it can obviously also be hurtful, depending on circumstances.

+1

"Dagny attacked her for something she didn't even say"

look at the time stamp on dagny's post

now look at the time stamp on bella's edit...

what dagny was responding to has been changed/softened

For the record, that is exactly what happened.

At the time I was responding directly to what she wrote which is now gone.

Also, note I said she had no reason to apologize.

I have explored a bit, but I like where I am now. I did go to a Holi Festival of Colors a couple years ago, but I didn't like it or understand it. It was too hard to breathe and I am a bit claustrophobic so I felt very uncomfortable stuck in the middle of a crowd of people.

why do non believers take the time to post on topics like this? She wasn't asking to be talked out of her own beliefs. She wanted to know about other Christians.
Back to the OP, I'm not a Christian now but I understand your plights and reasons. I hope you can find something that works well for you.

I agree. If believers jumped into an atheist thread telling atheists that they are wrong and immoral there would be a huge outcry. Double standard?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2014 07:41PM by bona dea.

What are you again, Bona? And how about your dear friend Jane Eliot, who is quick to proclaim that she's an atheist and then proceeds to lambaste atheists at every opportunity she finds?

Are YOU a believer? Coming cleaning about your affiliation with Catholicism?

I WISH more believers would comment on my posts! I'd love the opportunity to engage them in religious discourse.

And don't confuse my lack of respect for you or Jane as a general disdain for those who disagree with me. I just happen to not respect the two of you.

I've actually had a couple off-board conversations with a Christian I've met on RfM, and it's been both respectful and enjoyable.

I am closest to a deist and have said many times. I know Jane from another boards and havw met her IRL and she is an atheist. She also is intelligent and open minded unlike some posters. You, sir, are being a jerk. I was not addressing you and neither was Jane. Your personal attacks are out of line.

"...but I feel like a lot of people who leave Mormonism drop all their morals."

Did your really just say this? Really? It's an unbelievably stupid statement. What qualifies, exactly, as morals? If somebody doesn't believe that he or she has to wait until after marriage to have sex, how is this a blight on their so-called "morals?" Mormons may or may not have sex before marriage, but if they do, their behavior is labeled as "immoral." If they cheat their fellow ward member out of money in a multi-level marketing scheme, they were being "savvy."

It is not your place or my place to judge others on their morality vis-a-vis some religious or cultural belief.

I'm not a believer, but I respect the Bible for what it is, though you and I may very much disagree on that point.

In a broad sense, spirituality and ritual are important aspects of humanity, and I can respect a person's desire to believe.

I would caution you, however, about promoting your religious ideals in a public forum and urge you to not make assumptions or naive judgments about those who may not believe as you do, as you did in your OP. Once you begin the dialog here, be prepared for criticism of your beliefs.

The primary reason I chose to respond here as a non believer is to implore you to be thorough in your biblical research. Be mindful to quote scripture within its proper historical and literary context, or the closest approximation to that as you can.

You seem like a sweet person, and I wish you the best in your search for meaning. I hope folks here will treat you as respectfully as you treat them.

P.S. I want to suggest to you, too, that if committed, monogamous sex is God's ideal for humanity, he made us very bad at that. The rates of sexual promiscuity don't change much between religious and nonreligious societies. This includes extramarital sexual encounters.

Whether we've been pair-bonding for 10,000 years or for 1.5 million, humans still have a very large sexual apetite. Our bodies are built for lots of sex, more so than any other animal except, perhaps, our close relative, the bonobo ape.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2014 07:49PM by En Sabah Nur.

bella10 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have two different questions:
>
> There are many people who leave the church and
> become atheist, which is fine, but I am just
> wondering if there is anyone on this board that
> went from Mormonism to Christianity? I myself
> became a Christian.
...

I'm not sure that this case fits exactly --

As I became less and less enthused with Latter Day Saintism
I decided to spend a couple of years in a mainstream Christian
seminary -- got a graduate degree in that subject -- went on
to serve a pastoral internship in a Baptist congregation.

I suppose all of that gives me at least a better than average
comprehension of Mormonism and Christianity. The two obviously
overlap, but perhaps not in a particularly good sort of way.

There are, no doubt, commendable Mormons and Christians. A
few may be positively influenced in their lives by accepting
and implementing some of the more altruistic elements of
their respective religions.

But... (and that's an important "but")... finding one's way
out of Mormonism can also result in discovering a path out
of Christianity.

A thought to hold in memory, for those who contemplate their
exchanging one sect's baptism for that of another.

UD

I was born into TSCC and raised in it until 18 when I left. I had a few sexual partners before meeting and marrying my spouse of over 20 years. I have no regrets for not following a strict sexual morality, and in fact am grateful that I experimented enough to learn what I want/like and to understand what it means to be deeply physically compatible with someone else. Got my heart broken a few times, but it was worth it to me.

I'm now an episcopalian and find the tradition to be a good fit for me spiritually. Mormonism was all about following rules, judging other people, obeying, not questioning authorities and being ashamed for being human. For me at least, episcopalianism is the polar opposite of that so it has been valuable.

I have ex-mo family members who are atheist as well as christian and it would appear that none of us have lost our moral compasses. That could have a lot more to do with my parents being mostly kind, good people despite having raised us within mormonism.

Others don't have it so lucky. Two kids who were leaving around the time I got out were really going off the deep end. But they were kids, number one (late teens/20 at oldest), and number two their parents were judgmental mormon sociopaths (IMHO). A sibling of mine has an ex-mo ex-spouse whose parents remain uber-uber-TBM. All but one of their children is ex-mo and it's very clear to me that the addictions, mental/emotional suffering their ex-mo kids are dealing with that cause them to appear so 'morally' bereft stem directly from mom and dad's self-righteous superiority complex. It's really sad.

As I've written about before on this site, I was born and raised in the church, but never embraced it. There was never a culture in our home of "you have to read the scriptures, or go on a mission, or only date Mormon girls so you can get married in the temple"...so I did NONE of those things. My dear parents were heavily involved in the church but left me and my brother to decide for ourselves, what path we would take. It was always about respect. I would categorize myself as a spiritual person as there are things I feel that I cannot fully explain. I have tried to live my life not based on some scriptural garbage but like my Dad lived his...that is, to be honest and to treat everyone with respect. And I have seen more than may fair share of Mormons who will carry the scriptures around with them all day Sunday, and then fuck ya in a business deal on Monday.

Ron Burr

I am an ex-mo Christian. I love the Lord and still hold to living a "moral" life. I just enjoy my Sundays a lot more now! :). We have plugged into a great church. Living this whole new-again "free will" thing

Thanks for posting, it is good to know that I am not alone.

I have converted to Christianity. In fact, I will be baptized in the Catholic Church Saturday evening. Out of 6 adults being baptized in our parish, there are two ex-Mormons. My belief and faith in God was independent of Mormonism. I had studied classical philosophy and Aristotle, Augustine and Aquinas were the most influential for me. I also considered Judaism before deciding to convert to Christianity. I recommend checking out various denominations and studying it out. Talk to pastors and priests. Mormonism is not Christianity.

As a TBM, I resisted anti-mormon stuff with great fortitude. But Mormonism didn't sate my appetite for in-depth knowledge of reality. There were too many myths and not enough real truth. As I searched for answers to my questions, the thing that made me realize that the restoration is a farce was the Urantia Book. The Urantia Book helped me to see the true message of Jesus. Suddenly all of his parables made perfect sense. As I realize who Jesus truly was and what he truly stood for, there is no way that he would establish any church, let alone the ugly Pharisaical establishment of Mormonism. Jesus was an absolutely amazing guy, and I can't wait to meet him. That said, I truly think that he will say to many (including Mormon Apostles):

Matthew 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I don't believe that Jesus was a human sacrifice for sin to appease the wrath of a vengeful (idolatrous) God, but I do believe that he was truly a Son of God, and that his unparalleled message revealed "the way, the truth, and the life" -- and that message is the Love of God. And through the realization that God loves us, we realize the reality of our ability to survive beyond death.

I admit that many of you will not agree with me, but for what it's worth, the real message of Jesus has given me comfort beyond the lies of Mormonism.