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Posted by: kolobite ( )
Date: April 10, 2014 09:47AM

One of the dumbest ploys by apologists is to claim that the people who knew Joseph best spoke most highly of him. Idiots. Court cases are full of examples where close friends and family members testify of the character of the defendant. Ted Bundy's mother and wife both testified of his high character in court even though he had decapitated at least 12 of his victims. Surely they knew him best.

Daniel Peterson is spewing forth his juvenile logic again today in the deseret news as if Brigham young and Wilford woodruff are good character witnesses of Joseph smith. Obviously they had nothing to gain by speaking highly of the con man. (Yeah right). I'm somewhat saddened by the dirth of apologetic defenses. They really have pathetic arguments and it is continuously getting more difficult for them to cover up for the tscc real estate corp masquerading as a religion.

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Posted by: CA girl ( )
Date: April 10, 2014 10:27AM

Not only did people around Joseph Smith have something to gain by being character witnesses but they weren't necessarily that sterling of characters themselves. Martin Harris bopped all over the map, religiously speaking, and went off in another direction as soon as Joe died. He could tell me how spiritual the "prophet" was all day long but why should I believe him when he himself sounded like such a delusional freak show? Brigham Young was a religious dictator and wasn't Wilford Woodruff marrying sweet young things long after his expiration date?

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Posted by: randyj ( )
Date: April 10, 2014 10:19PM

Daniel Peterson, being an apologist, only cites Smith's loyalists like Brigham Young and Wilford Woodruff. Those two men, of course, were some of Smith's fellow polygamists and criminals. There were lots of other people who were every bit as close to Smith who told of his negative attributes.

From Smith's early days, there were the dozens of testators who told of his folk-magic activities, such as Willard Chase and Isaac Hale. Also, people like Peter Ingersoll, who helped Smith move from Palmyra to Harmony. And many Mormons who abandoned the church, such as David and John Whitmer, William McLellin, William Law, Austin Cowles, Leonard Soby, and John C. Bennett did as well. And then there were some of the women whom Joseph Smith propositioned, such as Martha Brotherton, Nancy Rigdon, Sarah Pratt, and Jane Law.

One person's accounts which I find very revealing are those of Benjamin Winchester. Here's some stuff from him I posted here in 2005:

A thread on this BB (Ex-Mormon Recovery Group) a couple of weeks ago asked about former LDS apologists who had decided that the church was false, and had left it and gone over to the "anti-Mormon" side. One of the most remarkable examples of that category was Benjamin Winchester, who joined the church in his teens, was an intimate acquaintance of Joseph Smith for many years, and authored apologetic and doctrinal works which were on the same level of those of Parley and Orson Pratt. For details, go to Dale Broadhurst's website at:

http://sidneyrigdon.com/Classics1.htm

Scroll down to Winchester's name to browse his 1840's apologetic productions. Many years after he left the church, Winchester gave two interviews which contain information that is vital to understanding early Mormonism and the true character of Joseph Smith. Winchester's remarks came back to my mind this morning, when I read Van Hale's latest remarks from his radio show, transcribed by Nightingale, wherein he defended polygamy as a holy practice which served a noble social purpose, and defended Joseph Smith's character on the issue. Winchester's recollections of Smith's character are strikingly different from the sanitized, deified image that modern Mormons have been spoon-fed by the church. And of course, apologists like Hale will predictably dismiss Winchester's remarks as the bitter lies of an angry apostate.

Anyhoo, here are a few of Winchester's recollections, for those who don't want to read the entire articles. As I read them, my biggest thought was how similar Winchester's experiences and feelings were upon learning of the fraudulence of the church to those of many of us Ex-Mormons here more than a century later. Enjoy.

From the Winchester interview titled "Primitive Mormonism" at

http://www.lavazone2.com/dbroadhu/UT/...

"When I returned to Kirtland the temple was nearly completed, and during that winter -- 1835 and 1836 -- its dedication occurred. That ceremony ended in a drunken frolic -- one of the worst I ever saw. Joseph Smith BECAME BEASTLY INTOXICATED And his father and brother, Hyrum, begged that the wine should be taken away, so that the carousal might be stopped as soon as possible. I did not know Joseph to be what is termed a 'common sot,' but that was not the last time I saw him intoxicated."

"After that dedication the Mormons organized what they termed 'the school of prophets.' A revelation prior to that time had given Oliver Cowdery the privilege of nominating the twelve apostles of the Church. About the time of this organization there was a good deal of scandal prevalent among a number of the Saints concerning Joseph's licentious conduct, this more especially among the women. Joseph's name was then connected with scandalous relations with two or three families. Apparently to counteract this he came out and made a statement in the Temple, before a general congregation that he was authorized by God Almighty to establish His Kingdom -- that he was God's prophet and God's agent, and that he could do whatever he should choose to do, therefore the Church had NO RIGHT TO CALL INTO QUESTION Anything he did, or to censure him, for the reason that he was responsible to God Almighty only. This promulgation created a great sensation -- a schism occurred and a large portion of the first membership, including the best talent of the Church, at once withdrew from it. This was during the summer of 1836."

"In the winter of 1839 and 1840 Smith, in company with Rigdon and with Porter Rockwell, acting as a sort of body guard, FLED FROM THE OFFICIALS That were after them, acting for the State of Ohio, on the charge of criminal practice at Kirtland, and they came to Philadelphia where I was stationed and where I was stake president. There they remained with me in the best degree of secrecy that could be maintained. Smith and I slept in the same bed and Porter Rockwell occupied a bed near the foot of our couch in the capacity of a body guard for the "prophet." It was there and at that time that I had a good opportunity to study the character of the "prophet." It then began to be apparent to me that he was tyrannical by nature, a libertine, in short a gross, sensual, corrupt man, but I was then still young and hopeful and it remained for events in a few brief years thereafter to fully open my eyes to the gigantic delusion I had been drawn into."

"It was a subject of common talk among many good people in Nauvoo that many of the elders were sent off on missions merely to get them out of the way, and that Joseph Smith, John C. Bennett and other prominent Church lights had illicit intercourse with the wives of a number of the missionaries, and that the revelation on spiritual marriage, i.e. polygamy, was gotten up to protect themselves from scandal."

"Joseph was very bitter in some of his public discourses relative to the talk among people about his lewdness, especially the women gossipers. On one occasion he said these women deserved to be threshed. One of the brethren, Badlam by name, took his suggestion in a literal sense: he went home from the meeting and gave his wife a severe whipping, which circumstance became the talk of the town."

"He was possessed with an inordinate degree of vanity and was quite susceptible to flattery. He was a perfect adept in the use of abusive and obscene language."

From Winchester's "final testimony" at

http://www.solomonspalding.com/docs/1...

"What kind of man was Smith?"

"I have entertained him for a month at a time while we lived in Philadelphia, while he was hiding from a mob. There was not a particle of true religion in him. His talk was never about anything pure or elevating. He liked to talk about be[ing] a great general or leader, and commanding people, and getting before the public. He could not reason on anything. He was well versed in Billingsgate vocabulary. Well versed in blackguard language for his evidences. He liked to use slang and cutting remarks on his persecutors. He loved to give orders to the church and to show authority. As a boy he was wild and curious. His mother and father expected great things of him. He carried what he called a 'Peep stone' through which he claimed to see hidden treasure & etc. This is what he afterwards called his 'Urim and Thummem.' Finally he took the notion to get up a book. Then he claimed to have made the discovery of the plates. Then he got Cowdery, Harris and Whitmer into it."

"Why did you join his church knowing all these things?"

"I was just 15 when I joined it, so as I was young, I was led into it, not seeing any more truth any where else. There were not over 150 members when I joined it. I kept educating myself. I often saw Smith's bad conduct but they admonished me to keep on. They pointed out to me just as bad things in other churches. They pointed to the men of the bible, how wicked many of them were, and how oppressive they were; yet that God approved of them -- so I kept on and thought it was all right.

"They showed me how God 'took the weak things to confound the wise' & etc. After Smith died I left them and have had nothing to do with them since, though I had written much in their defense."

"Was Smith prayerful?"

"No. He often stopped at my house and though I have asked him to say grace at the table or to offer family prayers he always refused. There was not a particle of piety in him. He never wanted to talk on piety or any thing religious or on piety, but always on some ideas of greatness, etc."
"Smith was a perfect libertine. Women got to running after him because they believed him to be a prophet. The whole church is a rotten concern."

"A Professor of the Electic college of Cincinnatti got to running around with Smith. His name was John C. Bennet. They ran with other men's wives so much that much trouble arose over it. Then Bennet got up this revelation on polygamy, which was a fraud, to cover their perfidy. He got out of Nauvoo before Smith's assassination, but he and Smith had a "big time" before that."

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Posted by: ASteve ( )
Date: April 13, 2014 03:21PM

In the winter of 39 Smith had long since fled the officials in Ohio. He did that a couple of year earlier, fleeing to Missouri. In the winter of 1939 he would have been fleeing from the State of Missouri, where he had escaped from jail on treason charges.

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Posted by: johnnyboy ( )
Date: April 14, 2014 04:45AM

@randyj

thanks for this info. All these firsthand accounts of joseph gives one a better understanding of his true character.

Its scary how similar the methods used to defend joseph are the same now as they were back then!!

amazing

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: April 13, 2014 04:26PM

Flight risk, ole Joe. I never knew him and I can attest that his character couldn't be trusted as far as you could throw him... six feet under I heard. People for multiple generations have not been so much turning against him as turning toward the truth.

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Posted by: brotherjoseph ( )
Date: April 13, 2014 05:28PM

The first eternal sweetheart of Joseph Smith was named Emma Hale Smith. She lived under the roof of his parents, then later under the roof of her parents, with Joseph. They borrowed a carriage and horse and went to the hill near his father's home and they brought home the golden plates together.

Emma transcribed the Book of Mormon while Joseph dictated what he saw whilst peering into a dark hat that contained a stone.

The church has never formally taught these seminal facts, for fear that many would opt out, due to little faith in the ridiculous test God uses to screen out the proud and intellectuals of the earth.

JUST THE FACTS

Proud intellectuals pay more tithes by far than ordinary Latter-day Saints, so the church should not be condemned for this multi-generational cover-up. If you or I were in the leading councils of the only true church, we would also lie, in order to build the Kingdom on earth with other people's money.

Joseph never allowed Emma to see the plates, but he did let her feel them through the covers.

When he left the house during the months of translating, she of course never took a peek at them, when he left them in the home. This explains why she chose not to journey with the LDS faithful, even though she was the much revered First Matron of the church and its acting Relief Society President, when the Saints went marching on to Zion.

She instead chose to become an active and faithul member of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which was run by her inspired Priesthood-bearing son, in fulfillment of the prophecy by Joseph that his son would be at the helm after his death.

http://hismin.com/content/53-false-prophecies-joseph-smith

This may seem odd, but it's not really. You and I would have stayed in Missouri, founding and building up a new and improved true church, rather than schlepping off into the wilderness with many new strangers and foreigners who also never saw the plates of gold.

The plates were returned to Moroni for safe-keeping, because God wanted millions of the honest in heart (in the future) to perpetually wonder if the plates that measured so small in physical volume could actually produce the 268,163 words of the currently approved version of the most corrected book on the earth. God enjoys confounding the weak and the evil, but He has a set limit of absurd beliefs that he imposes on His very elect.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_words_does_the_Book_of_Mormon_Have

This higher wisdom enables the only true church to continue to grow, despite the Internet. The most ridiculous beliefs policies and doctrines are changed as if by revelation, so that adaptation (one of the two imperatives of survival) is appropriately completed.

Had Emma and her son Joseph Smith, III trudged side-by-side to the Mexican Territory, there would have been a schism in the only true church, because the God who inspired Joseph while he blessed his son, also allowed a mystical event that proved to all that He had changed His mind, and instead chose Brigham Young to be at the head of the only true church.

God will not be mocked, and so, we see that Emma and Joseph the Third (her duly-ordained first-born son) led the second true church on the earth, simultaneously, with its Masonic rituals, oaths, costumes and kaleidoscopic mysteries. This is due to God's foreknowledge that competition is the best and most efficient means to harvest eventual Best Practices in a well greased bureaucratic organization.

https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS574US574&q=Reorganized+Church

see also

http://www.mrm.org/rlds

- - - - -

P. S. Regrettably, Emma was often unfaithful to her husband's whims. She became violently angry when she discovered that Joseph, the inspired Prophet, wanted to make the Smith family's household maid an eternal employee, with benefits.

This explains why her only true church has failed to cook the books as beautifully as the only true church that squatted on the sacred places in the West, that were taken by force from the Mexicans, many years before the US government focused on how to spray malaria-carrying bugs inasmuch as the Lord's army desired to bless the threatening heathen nations that dwelled across the seas.

https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS574US574&q=timeline+of+aerosol+spray+paint+cans



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2014 05:45PM by brotherjoseph.

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