There is a book called "Confessions of a Sociopath" by M.E. Thomas. She is a Professor of Law at BYU. http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath

I haven't read her book yet but in the Psychology Today article she says the LDS church is the ideal environment for a Sociopath. This makes me wonder about the GA's, especially the exalted 15. I'm sure at least some of them are sincere and mean well, more or less. Some of them may actually be nice guys. I can't believe they don't know about the dishonesty and the shaky ground of Mormonism, but they may be like a lot of people here; born into it, raised in it, rose in it, and just can't really admit the church is entirely false, even though they can see many problems with it. Maybe they just keep wishing it will turn out true after all.

But for a Sociopath none of that would matter. A Sociopath doesn't have a conscience and if they figured out that promoting Mormonism is defrauding the public, they'd be happy to go ahead and do it. Sociopaths tend to be charismatic and lead many people to love them. They study how to act to get along in an Empathic world. They could pass any lie detector test any time. They love to manipulate and to lead people down the primrose path. They will set up co-workers or subordinates, even supervisors to fail just for funsys. Most of them would love a good con job. So, I'm wondering, which of these wonder guys up at the pinnacle are Sociopaths in beloved elder clothing.

I think my parents took a sociopathic approach to child-rearing. The two things they most often said were, "because I said so," and "you're getting a beating."

Joseph Smith was a god in our house, and he was more important than anything that was real.

My father quoted from the Book of Mormon at random and often out of context. I think he suffered from aspergers syndrome, and my mother was definitely agoraphobic and depressed. On Sunday mornings we were spanked and dressed for church. I remember always being bad, always in trouble.

After a while I began to see that Jesus and Joseph Smith were fake. Pain was real. Beatings were real. Church boredom was real. But Jesus and Joseph were fake.

Is it possible that your typical hard core Mormon is a sociopath? Or is it probable?

I'm just grateful I wasn't raised as a Mormon on top of everything else.

For daring to have - and voice - opinions of my own, I was often slapped across the mouth and/or spanked.

But I was only bad at home.

Oddly enough, I was a GOOD kid at school. The teachers were generally nice, and I wanted to please them. I was a smart kid, loved to learn, got excellent grades, and received a lot of praise. My alcoholic mother eventually got to the point where she would scream at me if I got an A rather than an A+ in something. . .

Can you see why I chose to go "away" for university? When I graduated, with honors, people back home told me that they believed that I would go to hell in a handbasket the minute I was out from under my mother's tyrannical thumb. But I wasn't REALLY a bad kid. I was competitive as hell and I loved being the best, academically.

People back home were so accustomed to thinking of me as "bad," they couldn't believe I actually did something right.

Make the question easy. How many aren't?

+1

Most of the bretheren have already ordained themselves gods, or expect to be ordained a god anytime now. Too many people who follow them are sociopaths already. The church breeds sociopathy amongst the membership.

Example from Mr. Bednar. "I am scripture!" I used a peep stone and a ball cap to translate that as "I am a ridiculous asshat!"

100%

This is why religions are usually so successful. They provide an ideal breeding ground and environment for sociopaths to prosper in, at the expense of their even less-intelligent flocks (people who are practically begging to be led and told what to think).

It's a perfect symbiotic relationship.

I do not know how many are sociopaths but....

Could any of the church leaders, in all seriousness, not have had earnest, seeking, caring members pleading with them to explain questions they have about Joseph Smith and his fantastic claims? Could any of them not have had their own questions and concerns about the outlandish tale and character of sleazy, sneaky Joe? Could any of them not know, in their rooftop positions, that BYU, church apologists, and the church correlation committee spends much of their time spinning the church's history so it can be swallowed by the members, not choking them?


Personally, I think all of them have. And whether or not they have searched for answers or not, says it all. Because if they have not searched and studied things out for the benefit of caring, concerned questioning members and themselves, it shows how little truth and evidence means to them.

In my book, they have made their choice, and that choice is to turn their heads and ignore facts and truth in favor of having their place in the limelight, accompanied by a luxuriant, comfortable, outlandish lifestyle and monetary security.

Well here's one, beyond a shadow of a doubt:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds7QTMMoRVc

Reading the Tom Phillips hearing, it appears that one of the primary goals of the one true church was to slap Tom with all their costs. The only reason for that would be the hope that it would ruin him financially. I recognize that they were in an adversarial relationship, but how can this not be Sociopathic? Anyone with an actual conscience would not seek to personally destroy someone over a case against a church. It would interesting to know who made the decision to approach it this way.

Cactus Jim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone with an actual
> conscience would not seek to personally destroy
> someone over a case against a church.

I'm not so sure about that. It would seem to rule out personal criminal charges against Monson.

-------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not so sure about that. It would seem to rule out personal criminal charges against Monson.

I see your point but I don't see it as the same. Monson was named personally because of the Corporate Sole nature of the church organization. It would have been more realistic if the complaint could have been against the corporation itself. I didn't think it would ever come down to putting Monson in jail but would be in the form of sanctions against his corporate church.

This attempt to dump the cost of their 6 plus lawyers is nothing but a blatant attempt to get back at him. There is not legal need nor justification for it. It is what's called a SLAPP, a common tool used by evil corporations to prevent citizens from asserting their rights. My opinion is this kind of approach is a sign of a sociopathic mindset. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_public_participation

The tactics the church took against Phillips is exactly what the Church of Scientogy does to punish people who speak out, and ruin them financially, socially, and professionally.

It seems the need to 'protect' the hive gets vicious when there is a perceived threat. I wonder how many people's lives have been ruined by speaking the truth about the church through church tribunals, black balling, and social shunning (not official, of course)?

Since the current defender of the faith is lawyer who has stated in the past that as an Apostle his duty is to protect the church and the priesthood first and foremost, it is pretty obvious to me that members don't rise very high on his list of priorities.

Whether he is a sociopath or not, the results are pretty much the same, in my opinion.

(my) definition of Sociopath is an individual who harms others without regrets, e.g. thinking such as 's/he deserves it' or 'it's for their own good <in long run>. All B.S., of course.

IOW,... ALL OF THEM!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2015 09:37PM by GNPE.

I extricated myself from one last year (former bishop, high council...) Complete sociopath, text book. He even lied about leaving Mormonism behind. He should return there, plenty of prey...

Holland seems unstable. Oaks is just plain mean and creepy. Bedner is clearly only concerned about Bedner, and I don't mean his better half. I don't know enough about the rest of the clown parade but Mormonism is one crazy making toxic Kool-aid they pass around.

Dr. Martha Stout ("The Sociopath Next Door",) has estimated that one out of every twenty-five people is a sociopath. I believe that she said that a number of them are naturally attracted to corporate life.

So yes, I think the Mormon church leadership has its share, and probably more than its share.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2015 08:30AM by summer.

sociopath
A person with antisocial personality disorder. Probably the most widely recognized personality disorder. A sociopath is often well liked because of their charm and high charisma, but they do not usually care about other people. They think mainly of themselves and often blame others for the things that they do. They have a complete disregard for rules and lie constantly. They seldom feel guilt or learn from punishments. Though some sociopaths have become murders, most reveal their sociopathy through less deadly and sensational means.

I am hard pressed to "arm-chair" diagnose the majority in leadership in the LDS as a sociopath in the true sense as described here.
A few, probably.
I have observed lying by some in leadership, some of the time, in the LDS Church. Yes.

Just because someone is mean, nasty, creepy, adversarial, intrusive, dictatorial, orders people around, etc. does not make them a sociopath.

Sociopath is often interchanged with psychopath which seems to be a sociopath on steroids.
psychopath: a person with a psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.

In any group of people there will probably be a percentage of each. Because religions/churches generally accept everyone at face value, it's likely that there would be a larger percentage in those groups. (I'm guessing, of course.)

I think narcissists far outnumber sociopaths in the church hierarchy. Remember that the psychology, the emotional life, of the two groups are very similar. The difference arises in the realm of action. Sociopaths generally lack focus and commitment; they are impulsive. What we see among the highest ranking Mormons is not histories of shoplifting, physical violence, pathological lying (in areas outside of religion, constant philandering and arrests, etc., but cold, calcluating commitment. That is more NPD than ASD.

There are of course high-functioning sociopaths and some of those may work at the COB. But my money is on narcissism as the disproportionately common diagnosis for prophets and apostles and their bureaucratic minions.

Agreed.

The sum total of this thread only serves to remind me of something I have always maintained.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO DIE TO GO TO HELL. Life should not be this convoluted and complicated as the church has made it.

100%

Well at the very least the teaching of the church replace natural empathy, and respect for other's autonomy. You already know the answers. They are absolute and inflexible, so the more literally you believe the teachings, the more inflexible you become to the needs of others, and the less you can give credence to their own explanations of their life choices.

I officially left about five years ago after seeing the absolute futility of hoping for the inflexibility to change in regards to exactly as you say natural empathy and respect for other's autonomy.

Sometimes when I read threads such as this one and look at the difference in my life now as opposed to what it was I can't help but shake my head in absolute disbelief that I survived the chaos.

Everyone of them who believes it was okay to coerce the gay kids at BYU into electroshock aversion therapy through emotional blackmail is a sociopath.

The Gerontocracy show no remorse, no empathy, and no guilt for their actions. They believe they can do no wrong because everything they do and say is sanctioned by God no matter how damaging to their followers. They do not apologize and they do not admit wrongdoing. This is a classic sign of a sociopath from what I have read.

And Oaks? He is the one who said it is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true. If that isn't a sociopathic statement I don't know what is. His photo should be in the dictionary next to the word.

I would have to say the q15 are mentally ill, conning, rich and admired narcissists.

I have a co worker who fits the bill for the sociopath.

Well, Cactus Jim, according to your brief synopsis, most of my Mormon fake-friends, who are still shunning me, and began this vile behavior six years ago--qualify as sociopaths:

"A Sociopath doesn't have a conscience and if they figured out that promoting Mormonism is defrauding the public, they'd be happy to go ahead and do it. Sociopaths tend to be charismatic and lead many people to love them. They study how to act to get along in an Empathic world. They could pass any lie detector test any time. They love to manipulate and to lead people down the primrose path. They will set up co-workers or subordinates, even supervisors to fail just for funsys. Most of them would love a good con job."

Yes, they would like for me to fail. Apostates are supposed to fail, according to Mormon teaching. My bishop and other priesthood leaders threatened me that I would fail, my children would fail, we would fail financially, I would get very sick, and God Himself would withdraw His blessings.

Is this not the threat of a sociopath? Oh yeah, they get you to trust and like them at first--but if you cross them--they will stab you in the back. I know ex-Mormons who have lost their jobs, after leaving the cult, lost the respect of their non-Mormon friends, because of Mormon slander, lost their spouse and children because of Mormon "alienation of affection." The cult as a group entity is one big sociopath, just like its revered leader.

To oversimplify things: anyone who wants you to fail is your enemy.

The Mormon Sociopath leaders want people's money, and if we refuse to give it to them, they threaten to take away our families forever, and banish us to outer darkness. We know they don't always have the power to do this, but I believe that they try. Like the Mafia threatening to kill you and your loved ones, the Mormons threaten to ruin your life--and sometimes, they do. It's criminal.

Sorry for the ramble.

The answer is Yes. They all are sociopaths.

I have been going through the shunning, harassment, threats which says this behavior is not limited to just a specific area but general behavior throughout the church. I'm sure there are a lot more out there. Since that kind of behavior is usually at the hand of Sociopaths then we would have to conclude that the church is filled with them.

I think Brigham Young could have been a sociopath, since he convinced his followers to follow him and become totally isolated, and he was into that Blood Atonement stuff to further keep people in line.