Wow. I am sorting through pejorative words and phrases in my mind. Saintly as I am, I'll discard them all. (Ooops! Forgot RfM has no detectable sense of humor!)

The problem is not that Christians don't believe anything or that they can't be pinned down, it is that Christians believe many things -- too many things -- and there is no one Christian doctrine or dogma. The problem is that Christianity is large. It goes back -- er -- approximately 2014 years and circles the globe. Currently there are over 1 billion CATHOLICS alone! They cross language and culture barriers, and I'll bet you would be hard pressed to find one belief shared universally by all ONE BILLION of them -- including that there is a god.

This isn't actually a super hard concept to grasp. Was Christian woman living 210 AD in Rome likely to have the same understanding of god, the universe, Christ, the hereafter and Christianity as 19th century Christian servant woman in London? WHAT ARE THE CHANCES!!! There is variety even in a very small slice of Christianity, such as Mormonism -- where you find biology teachers placidly teaching evolution alongside fiery fundamentalist types.

Since someone started a new thread, I will answer the rude and insulting poster who said that I consider any criticism of Catholics misinformation. Uh,no. I have said many times I didn't like Benedict,that I disagree with many Catholic teachings and that priests who molest kids orbcover it up should be punished.What I object to are statements by somebposters who imply all Catholic priests are involved.Studies show it isbaround 1 -2 percent which is pretty much the same as the rest of the world.Kindly stop misrepresenting what I say.

You're right: I was being rude when I said that to you. I just assumed, based on your typically abrasive behavior and sloppy argumentation style, that you preferred to avoid polite social discourse or legitimate debate.

I thought you liked bald assertions.

My mistake.

Sonoma, I'm game. What would you like to know about my beliefs?

I am a "Christian" however much like my pastor I can hardly refer to myself as that. The word Christian means Christ-like or little Christ. I fall very short of that definition. I am a follower of Christ and strive to be Christ-like. As a "Christian" I belive in the Holy Trinity, the literal creation of the Earth by God's spoke Word in 6 days, the virgin birth, the crucification, the resurection, the 2nd coming, heaven and hell. Now do I think I know all the answers? Nope. I believe that anyone who accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior will be saved. My favorite word in the Bible is whosoever. I do not think that anyone "church" has all the answers. I just do my best to do as Jesus instructed me....to love the Lord my God with all my heart and love my neighbor as myself. I don't argue doctrine because the BIble says not to. There was an evangalist named Smith Wigglesworth, from the early 1900's who hasd a motto that I have adopted as my own "God said it, I believe it, and that settles it" That is my belief.

"The Bible in one hand and a rifle in the other"

http://cdn.camyx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Gun-Nation-2.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/15/John_Brown_Painting.JPG

janeeliot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem is not that Christians don't believe
> anything or that they can't be pinned down, it is
> that Christians believe many things -- too many
> things -- and there is no one Christian doctrine
> or dogma...

Not exactly.

> Was Christian woman living 210 AD in Rome likely
> to have the same understanding of god, the
> universe, Christ, the hereafter and Christianity
> as 19th century Christian servant woman in London?

Maybe.

Was a Christian woman living in 400 AD in Rome likely to have the same understanding of God, Christ and the basic tenents of Christianity as a 19th century Christian servant woman in London or a 21st century man living in Alabama?

Likely, if the 19th century London servant woman was Episcopalian or Roman Catholic and the 21st century man in Alabama is Lutheran or Presbyterian. All of them would have used or use the Apostles Creed, which was first mentioned in 390 AD. How long it existed prior to that is uncertain. Catholics, Dutch Reformed, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Monnonite, Methodists, Presbyterians, United Church of Christ and all of the Orthodox Christian churches accept the Nicene Creed, dating from the council of Nicaea 325 AD. That encompasses the overwhelming majority of Christianity worldwide, excluding fundamentalist denominations and sects like the mormons and jehovah's witnesses.

The Nicene Creed historically is more controversial, especially in the split between Eastern and Western Christianity, but the Apolstles Creed in its 16 centuries is unchanged. "We believe in one holy Catholic/catholic/universal/Christian church" is the only significant variation.

"We believe in God, the Father, Almighty, maker of heaven and earth" doesn't state a 144 hour creation. However,the creed does state, "and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary".

The tremendous diversity in Christianity stems from differences in other dogmas, different doctrines and practices. Every time though battles and wars were or are fought over these differences, also look for the political and economic motives.

"We believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic/catholic/universal/Christian church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and the life everlasting."

Denominations who use creeds tend to practice confimation. In some churches that's preceeded by two to four years of study in which the Apostles Creed is a significant part, dissected line by line. The Lord's Prayer also is studied in detail and used in the services of all but the most fundamental sects, including the mormons. "Forgive us our trespasses/debts/sins as we forgive those who trespass against us/our debtors/those who sin against us."

The apostolic keys that JS claimed were restored to him always have been part of Roman Catholic doctrine, and appear as literal keys on the papal coat of arms. Luther also upheld the holding of the apostolic keys in the Protestant clergy. Anglicans/Episcopalians believe in the apostolic succession, the Historic Episcopate. Catholics also ordain to the Melchizedek Priesthood. JS borrowed a lot in the restoration, but hated creeds.

Reading the essays, it's apparent few of the basic tenents of Mormonism, a modern church, will reach its bicentennial unchanged.

The core tenets of Christianity are pretty much the same across different denominations. Yes there are disagreements on some doctrines, but the core tenets are the same. After leaving the LDS church I went to a lot of different Christian church’s including Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodists, Baptists, Non-Denominational, even a Mennonite Church. I was surprised how similar the doctrine was. Most Christian faiths share the following common teachings.
- Christ was both God and man
- Christ rose from the dead physically
- Salvation is by grace through faith. (Though there are some that push works more than grace.
- There is only one God.
- The Bible is the word of God and our source of truth.

JStoJC, it's very different, isn't it?

While your first four common teachings may be "basically" the same in most Christian religions, it is in the last one you will get the biggest variation.

>- The Bible is the word of God and our source of truth.

You have those that believe the Bible to be literal and unerring and will quote passages to support their interpretation, meanwhile ignoring passages that can be interpretted exactly the opposite.

At the opposite end would be those who think that most (if not all) of it is metaphor (including some of your first four points). While it may be "inspired" it is not unerring, as it was written by men. Then there is everthing in between both the above. Becuase of that, you get some Christians saying others aren't really Christians because they aren't doing it right. You then get the spectators saying they are ALL doing it wrong and why is anyone calling themselves a Christian.

It's like two people throwing a football back and forth may say they are "playing football." Others may "play football" having only three players on a team, having "out of bounds" as a fence on one side, and a sidewalk on the other, and trees on each end as the endzone, and they count touchdowns as one point. Others may play with flags or touch rather than tackle. At the final extreme you have 11 players (at a time on each team) on the field with referees. Some spectators that aren't playing may say that only the ones with the 11 players and referees are "playing football" and that the others aren't really "playing football" because they are doing it wrong. You then get other spectators that say that what's described above is not even football, as football is played with a round ball, goalies, and nets.

Asking if "do Christians believe anything" because different Christians believe different things is like asking "are three people on a team counting touchdowns as one point playing football?" You can't lump all "Christians" into one category, just like you can't lump all people "playing football" into one category, or even agree what "football" is.

Agree totally. My Pentecostal nieces believe the.Bible literally but the homily last week at mass was about how Adam and Eve and other stories are metaphorical.