Let's forget about whitewashed history and bogus doctrines for a minute.

After reading many postings over several months, maybe the biggest problem with the Church is that the members solely exist to benefit the Church but the Church does very little to benefit the members. It is truly a one-way relationship. Who wants that?

Once the rank and file member realizes this, he may re-assess his participation in LDS Inc.

My kids and I were talking about this last night - the idea that the church may not end with a bang but with a whimper because of a) the internet and b) the leadership class of members being tired of being treated like slaves. The sort of people the church needs to keep it running, pay tithing, hold callings etc. do not appreciate being used, overworked, taken advantage of and getting nothing in return. No one does, really, but people who are "take charge" like the church needs do not usually allow themselves to be kicked around like victims like the church does. At some point, if they are getting nothing in return, that one fact is going to make them start thinking.

A good example of what you are talking about is the annual tithing settlement shakedown and guilt trip.

Even though I don't donate a penny to LDS Inc., they still call me every year so that I can sit down with the bishop and declare my tithing status. He already knows what my status is, of course -- I pay nothing. In addition to trying to get me to pay tens of thousands of dollars for the entire year, the bishop then starts asking personal questions and trying to make me feel guilty.

As a result, I simply made up my mind that I wasn't going to be bullied anymore. So, for several years now, I simply refuse to attend tithing settlement. They still call every year, though.

I was active until a couple months ago but I haven't signed up for tithing settlement in years and was never called to make an appointment in any of my wards. I always thought if was a waste of everyone's time. I had to answer yes or no at my TR interview and I felt that was enough.

I haven't gone for years. Complete waste of time IMHO.

Two thirds of the rank and file already realize that. That is why they left.

All Mormonism gives is grief for not doing enough. Some deal, eh?

Near the end of my attending church, I too came to realize that I was there for the benefit of the church also. They continued to make demands that pulled me away from my growing family without any regards for our needs.

I remember one year where I had taken a week for scout camp and then they asked my wife to go to girls camp and I would need to take my other week vacation to watch the children. I was only getting two weeks vacation a year at the time.

The only regret I have of leaving is that I didn't see it sooner.

But, but, but, wait...
The church gave you the secret handshakes to get into heaven! How can you not be grateful for that??!!
and you get warm fuzzy feelings every Sunday from the holy speert!!

The church does give something back to its members in a way. The promise of Heaven. If the Celestial Kingdom actually existed, I'd be willing to have 70 years of misery and boredom (i.e. a lifetime) to get there, since it would be worth it for infinite happiness. But when life is all you have, mormonism is one of the worst ways to use it. However, for those people that genuinely believe the Celestial Kingdom exists, I can see why they stick to it.

Another thing the church gives back to its high-ranking members is power. I'd say there's lots of callings where you can get a high level of power. If you're on the Relief Society Presidency you get it, also anybody on the Bishopric gets a lot of power as well. Stake Presidency even more. And once you get to Mission President level it becomes more than power, the average members start to worship you.

Some people love this level of power, they love people listening to them and doing what they say, they love that people won't question them, they love being in secret meetings and discussing others, they love the power to punish those they don't like, they love being told people's personal information and hearing all the gossip first. There's some power-hungry people that I do think get things back from the church. There's others who haven't had a significant leadership position yet, but they keep going to church because they know they could be on the Bishopric one day and get all that power.

It's difficult to get this kind of power in any other walks of life. Even if you're a high-ranking politician you still get lots of opposition and people not trusting you. Same with being in a high rank at your work. In mormonism if you're a leader people follow you without questioning. They treat you as if you speak to God.

To add to this, this is why I think there's a million callings in the church. Being librarian or primary school teacher or activities director isn't much, but you still get a small taste of that power.

> If the Celestial
> Kingdom actually existed, I'd be willing to have
> 70 years of misery and boredom (i.e. a lifetime)
> to get there, since it would be worth it for
> infinite happiness. But when life is all you have,
> mormonism is one of the worst ways to use it.

This is the best answer I've ever seen to TBM's questions of why I gave up on TSCC, why I didn't give TSCC another chance.

TSCC teaches that we only have one chance to accept the Gospel in this life -- if we reject it here, we don't get a second chance in the afterlife. Well I gave TSCC 36 years of chances, and it blew it in every conceivable way. Whatever few years I have left, are mine.

The biggest sense of loss after leaving the Morg is having to look for those damn keys all by myself.

Love it. Reality bites.

The church makes no apologies for this one-way relationship either. I can't count how many times I heard that if you felt exhausted in your calling or weren't feeling spiritually edified at church that you needed to repent. The message was always about changing your attitude, praying more or fasting more so that you could get something out of church or temple worship. It's just one of the ways the church controls its members and in many cases it works.

GUY walks into a store. He looks to be straight out of 'The Sopranos'

GUY: "Hey, we're doing you a *favor* here--and for only 10%. You wanna give up Eternity? You wanna get on the bad side of Heavenly Father? Hey, no skin off my back, I'm just telling you. I mean, I can't guarantee that certain...things...may happen if you don't follow the Prophet: the First Rule of Heaven is Obedience, right? --it's just...business, capisce?"

I've thought this to be both pointed and funny:
http://www.jhuger.com/kissing-hanks-ass

Heaven and the Heavenly Father are monetized like the time value of money--the present value of a future sum.

Back when I was in that category I would have disagreed. After moving to a new state it was awfully nice to have instant friends after attending suckrament meeting only once. Sure those "friendships" are usually only an inch deep but it's something.

Sense of community? A place to go?

I agree completely that "THE CHURCH" doesn't care one bit about the individual members. Once you cease to be a contributor you'll find out pretty quick that the church can't help you out with much. Definitely a one way relationship but there are some intangible benefits IF you fit the mold.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2014 03:14PM by koriwhoremonger.

"It is truly a one-way relationship. Who wants that?" - according to LD$ Inc, 15 million people want that. There is nothing as stupid as this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2014 04:19PM by verilyverily.

is that it exists.

Along these lines, when I am asked to do something for another person or organization these are the questions that I ask
1. What do you want me to do?
2. When do you want me to do it?
3. How does this benefit me?
4. How much does it pay?

The church has treated membership devotion like a bottomless well. Mormonism is never self-restraining. It will keep asking for more and more until things totally fall apart.

The job of church leadership is to talk, not listen. The leaders represent God Himself, therefore the members must never "counsel God". The members must always be the listeners.

No one in Mormon leadership lobbies for the members' interests. The only lobbying that goes on is inside the church's professional bureaucracy. Naturally that's where the church's money and resources go, which explains why the church ends up building multi-billion dollar Malls while the members end up scrubbing toilets.

I made this list a few years ago while writing an essay about why people are motivated to continue to believe in the face of lack of (or contradictory) evidence.


(i) life after death, and an expectation of what that continued life will be like, i.e.
(ii) an eternal paradise without any suffering
(iii) eternal justice
(iv) a Father God who takes a personal interest in your life
(v) continuation of relationships after death
(vi) a plan/purpose/meaning of life, not just random events
(vii) fate
(viii) a meaning for your suffering, and a reward for longsuffering
(ix) a reward for your good deeds
(x) the possibility/expectation that it will all make sense in the end
(xi) that when things go good, you are being rewarded by God
(xii) that when things go wrong, God is testing you—i.e. is aware of you, and thinks you are strong enough to face trials—it is a compliment, a sign of faithfulness
(xiii) you can use your emotions as reliable indicators of truth
(xiv) you have direct access to God, via your feelings
(xv) that via (xiii) your biases/preferences/prejudices are vindicated
(xvi) that you are one of the elect/predetermined
(xvii) you have esoteric knowledge, due to (xiii-xv), that you are among those few who are right, while most are wrong.
(xviii) rituals are milestones in life development
(xix) rituals are a link to the power of heaven, so secure certain privileges
(xx) faith is being tested. Although evidence says ~Y, you will be rewarded for believing Y anyway
(xxi) moral anchor. Moral relativism is shifting and confusing. Absolutes are comforting
(xxii) homogeneity of community of believers. You are part of something significant
(xxiii) specifically LDS belief: families are sealed (permanent) for eternity

All of those things, except xxiii, can be had from another church that doesn't take its members for granted and treat them like galley slaves.

but the members get blessings.
what more could they want ?

My theory is group conscious. Why did the Japanese kamikaze pilots fly to their death? It wasn't because of a love for a far-distance emperor. It was because others in their squad were doing the same thing.

This is the best thing about the Internet. People will discover that they all don't have to stick to one thing; they can quit and their lives will still be fine.