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Posted by: ozpoof ( )
Date: February 14, 2014 07:44PM

Some family members of mine suffered a natural disaster. They are lifelong tithe payers of over 50 years.

They asked THE CULT for some assistance and were told ask your family first, then OTHER CHURCHES!!!! then the state government then the Australian Federal Government, and then the CULT.

This is true sh!t. One nearly left the church over this but was kept in by a spouse.

The church helps no one outside Salt Lake in my view. I don't know any real aid they have given anyone here in Australia. Their charity site claims several medical projects here. Bull crap. We have free healthcare of high quality. They just fucking lie and cheat and grab money. They fail miserably as a charity, church, and as Christians.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: February 14, 2014 07:48PM

I can't believe that a church would tell you to go to another church *first.* However that is not the first time that I've heard of such a thing on this board. The Mormon church just does not want to let go of the money. It may miss a prime real estate deal, don't you know?

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Posted by: zenjamin ( )
Date: February 14, 2014 07:55PM

Sad about family.

Otherwise completely consistent corporate behavior.

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Posted by: jbug ( )
Date: February 14, 2014 07:58PM

Back in the 70's, when I joined the cult, people were told to go to their family first, then the cult, umm "church". Members were actually told NOT to go to the Gov. for help, except as a last resort. I wonder what happened??

I guess the cult got GREEDIER.

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Posted by: Void K. Packer ( )
Date: February 14, 2014 08:47PM

Hinckly happened. All the current shenanigans seems to lead back to then.

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Posted by: hello ( )
Date: February 15, 2014 05:07AM

In Hawaii in the seventies, members were told to go to the state before coming to the ward. Food stamps and welfare, while not "approved of" by Mormon society, were considered the port of first resort by church authorities. And they expected tithing on that help, too.

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Posted by: Paidinfull ( )
Date: February 14, 2014 08:06PM

Every tbm I know still talks about how their church was the first relief in New Orleans after Katrina. I lived there for quite awhile & of everyone I know there, none of them remember seeing the lds. PR & a photo op only?

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: February 15, 2014 04:53AM

AFAIK the first organization to get a relief truck into New Orleans after Katrina was...Wal-Mart. And I believe the truck was full of potable water. Wal-Mart even beat the U.S. Government!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2014 04:54AM by summer.

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Posted by: Paidinfull ( )
Date: February 15, 2014 04:43PM

Yes, summer, that's exactly what I was told, too. Wal-Mart knew about the River Road & used it. FEMA wouldn't talk to or work with parish emergency managers who tried to tell them.
Ozproof, here's hoping your family receives whatever they need.

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: February 14, 2014 08:17PM

Yes, they will write themselves into the Haiti relief, the Louisiana relief, etc. If they've got photos, then it happened. Got the T-shirts. Only thing missing is the actual relief.

I have had personal experience of them denying me help in finding and helping a lost child because they had no way of verifying that I was an "active" (read: tithepaying) member because it was a weekend.

This pseudo church using standard risk-avoidance policies typically found in corporation, rather than any Christian standards of charity/love like the ones espoused by the person they named their church for.

When I was with the Faith in Action program, the Mormons would not even help their own (as urban myths suggest they do). They would not chip in to help the community elderly and they didn't care if we helped them instead of them. By contrast, other religions were aghast if we helped someone without giving them the first opportunity to help their own members.


Anagrammy

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Posted by: fluhist ( )
Date: February 14, 2014 08:18PM

I agree years ago it was family first, then tscc. BUT in recent years that has changed. I know of an old age pensioner who had a lot of health problems and needed things like daily swims and exercise to keep her healthy as well as lots of medications. She lived in government housing and ran a small car as getting on and off buses was impossible for her.

She went to her Bishop with an itemised budget showing that she could JUST survive on her pension, but CERTAINLY NOT pay tithing. The Bishop told her of a Protestant run charity that provided food to anyone who applied. So this lady went weekly to this charity, was given food and used the money she saved to pay TITHING!!!! I was DISGUSTED!!

This lady was very capable of supporting herself on her old age pension and was doing fine, with her self-esteem in place for doing so. BUT by doing this she was DEPENDANT on a charity. I felt SO bad about that. Personally I ould HATE that unless the need was really genuine. Also how DARE tscc send her to another church so she could pay tithing to them? That charity was set up for people in need. I am sure they did not begrudge this lady her food, BUT she could have managed just fine without it but for the insistance of tscc in having its 10%!!!!! All this allowed her to go to the Temple. Needless to say I had my say. She was fine with my opinion, and didn't say a word, I think deep down she agreed with me.

This is in OZ too, but I am sure it is true of other places.

The Church I joined in 1966 as a young teenager has definately CHANGED!!!! I suppose it is the ongoing power hunger of a cult. There must be studies into it and how it all works. I have read a little, but need to look further now I can see.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2014 08:20PM by fluhist.

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Posted by: Pooped ( )
Date: February 15, 2014 11:39AM

Yes, times have changed drastically since I joined in 1968. LDS, Inc. was averse to taking anything from the government. I found out later it went back to the days of the government persecution of polygamy in Utah. BYU also hated taking government funds because it would require them to open their books to government scrutiny. Horrors!

Now the church is a full-on corporation. Charity and doctrine be damned. Full speed ahead for the money. It is all about the bottom line and building up the value of assets. Members and doctrines will be thrown under the bus instantly if it means they will take $$$ out of the coffers.

I can actually see the day that LDS, Inc. rents out the chapels to other churches and tells the members to meet in their own homes. No lie.

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Posted by: Anon2 ( )
Date: February 15, 2014 05:21PM

Another AMAZING story, Fluhist. So, if I understand correctly, by taking groceries from a REAL church while tithing the Mormons were actually being funded, underwritten, tithed to, by other churches. The same other churches Mormons stick their collective noses up at while driving past on their way to the temple.

Talk about complete insanity, they'll wrap electrodes around a young man's testicles and light them up for having a same sex attraction all while letting a tithe strapped family suffer hunger and other hardships often easily handled by dispensing a little something called mercy. Of course, I'm sure the reasoning for not giving hardship exemptions is that everyone having a hard time would want one. Well.....yesss, but isn't that the point of being classified a "CHARITY?" But, if you're only a corporation pretending to be a charity, then it makes perfect sense.

Truly, Mormons know no shame whatsoever. It's so ironic that the most inferior of this earth's religions the Mormons should be the most arrogant of them all.

Oh, and for those of you who say those electrodes are all in the past so it's not fair to discuss them anymore, I say as long as there has been no public apology for everyone to hear, it's all still on the table and fair fodder for open discussion. And add to that, as long as things like Prop 8 are still happening, there's no reason to believe anything has really changed at all, attitude wise.

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Posted by: brandywine ( )
Date: October 17, 2015 10:52AM

My former TBM neighbor and her friend down the street were older and sold their homes to live in a Catholic run independent living facility here in SLC. The reason the women moved into this situation was because even when you run out of money the Catholic Church will still take care of you, this would NEVER happen in Mormonism.

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Posted by: Elder Hugh Janus ( )
Date: February 15, 2014 01:11AM

I'm actually surprised if the actually told fellow mormon members in good standing that. Usually that's the kind of response you get for people who are not members at all. Although when there are massive disasters like in haiti they decide they have to get involved to put up a good front and for brownie points.
That's yo mormoney religion for ya. They do things not because they want to, because they think they have to.

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Posted by: schmendrick ( )
Date: February 15, 2014 06:11PM

You should probably spell it "Jainus." Just sayin. :)

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Posted by: spanner ( )
Date: February 15, 2014 03:03AM

I moved to Australia a month ago from NZ. One bonus is the complete lack of Mormons over here as far as I can tell. I ran into missionaries daily back home, but have not seen one, not recognised a chapel since I got here.

Anyway, the relief situation is similar in NZ. In spite of owning massive farms, the relief system is more folk lore than reality. We frequently went hungry as kids. We had no money for shoes or even school uniforms at times. But the parents went to the temple several times a month, not only paying tithing to do so, but paying for transport and costs while the kids had no school lunch.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2014 03:04AM by spanner.

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Posted by: ozpoof ( )
Date: February 15, 2014 11:42AM

Yep. The Lord will provide, but if he doesn't, you're doing something wrong.

You must live outside Brisbane. I went to a pool here yesterday to cool down and all the Islander kids were yelling to each other playing games "Nephi" and ""Malachi". One was even called Liahona. I suppose you can't tell current activity by what the parents named their kids 15 years ago, but jeez.

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Posted by: not in outer darkness ( )
Date: February 15, 2014 03:38AM

Then WHAT IS THE POINT of the church having all of these "Bishops Storehouses"? I have an aunt that works in one and my parents volunteer their time at the Bishop's Storehouse, close to where they live. I KNOW SOMETHING is being done or made -- my parents always talk about canning some fruit or other foods when they work there...So what is THAT all about if they won't even given any supplies to their own members? WHO is all of this stored and canned food, located in all of the different Bishop's Storehouses all across this county, going to? What are they doing with it? Anyone know?!!

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Posted by: ozpoof ( )
Date: February 15, 2014 11:44AM

As far as I know, these things are exclusively restricted to the Morridor.

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Posted by: ghjk33 ( )
Date: October 17, 2015 02:18AM

I am an ex Catholic...if there is ever such a thing and I'm a new Mormon...because my friends are and I need a church in my life.I find it very secretive and when you ask difficult questions there's always someone to tell you that you need to have faith and accept....well I don't do that easily, I need to know what I'm getting into. It interests me that the 'high up' Mormons I know appear to be able to afford what they want and I wonder do they have a secret reward system for obedience...surely the lord does not supply brand new vehicles, beautiful homes....anyway, my qurstion today is about tithing. I am an Australian Aged Pensioner,I have the same expenses as veryone else, lately I've needed to spend more on my health do pull in the belt a bit. Some bills I have to pay off on agreement.I survive on approx $400 AUD perfortnight...that includes everything and excludes entertainment, holidays, special food, clothing and even house maintrnance of latr since I had an accident that put mr in a wheelchair and made me incapapblr of all the labour I did atound the place.....oh, and I pay a mortgage of $270 a fortnight...so that leaves mr less than $400 fortn.
I've been enterprising, I've lived in this old house for 30 years and when I could I earnt some $$$ with artwork. Now all I have is my Govt.Age pension that used to be a Disability Pension...too disabled to be employed.

What's the definition of "Excess","Interest and "Income"? I do not get any of these!
How to pay 10% on nothing?
Who will bail me out of I don't pay my bills? and
Who will pay for me to see a private Specialist Physician I need to see...and that's just some of it!
Last week I drove 300kms to the nearest city to see a Specialist with just enough money for petrol for my 25 yr old car taking a cucumber sandwich for lunch and no other money....whilst the 'priest' drove the same distance in a brand new vehicle with all the bells and whistles to go to the theatre.
The Mormon scriptures state "excess"...
To me that means whatever you have left after all dutiful payment for goods and services and food and medecine. Yet that's not how the authorities see it....All good Mormons pay 10% up front on what their income is before they pay anything else.

If I want to rengotiate my mortgage...the bank wants to see a statement of my income...and...a Government Age Pension, by law, is not considered as INCOME.
I do not have a valid income that I might present to a bank as proof of being able to afford the new mortgage amount.
So how to pay tithes on 10% on what is not considered in the world of finance to be Income?
Forget..'Excess'! Forget interest" I have no money yeilding investments.
Until I solve this problem I am considered to be living in the world of Satan and cannot be admitted to the Temple and if I die I won't be let in one of the heavens where people see god! Mmmmmm....answers anyone?

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Posted by: ghjk33 ( )
Date: October 17, 2015 02:29AM

ghjk33 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am an ex Catholic...if there is ever such a
> thing and I'm a new Mormon...because my friends
> are and I need a church in my life.I find it very
> secretive and when you ask difficult questions
> there's always someone to tell you that you need
> to have faith and accept....well I don't do that
> easily, I need to know what I'm getting into. It
> interests me that the 'high up' Mormons I know
> appear to be able to afford what they want and I
> wonder do they have a secret reward system for
> obedience...surely the lord does not supply brand
> new vehicles, beautiful homes....anyway, my
> qurstion today is about tithing. I am an
> Australian Aged Pensioner,I have the same expenses
> as everyone else, lately I've needed to spend more
> on my health so pull in the belt a bit. Some bills
> I have to pay off on agreement.I survive on approx
> $800 AUD perfortnight...that includes everything
> and excludes entertainment, holidays, special
> food, clothing and even house maintrnance of late
> since I had an accident that put me in a
> wheelchair and made me incapapble of all the
> labour I did around the place.....oh, and I pay a
> mortgage of $270 a fortnight...so that leaves mr
> less than $800 fortn.
> I've been enterprising, I've lived in this old
> house for 30 years and when I could I earnt some
> $$$ here and there.Now all I have is my Govt.Age
> Pension that used to be a Disability Pension...too
> disabled to be employed even in my youth. I have no family at all.
>
> What's the definition of "Excess","Interest and
> "Income"? I do not receive any of these!
> How to pay 10% on nothing?
> Who will bail me out of I don't pay my bills? and
>
> Who will pay for me to see a private Specialist
> Physician I need to see...and that's just some of
> it!
> Last week I drove 300kms to the nearest city to
> see a medical Specialist with just enough money for petrol
> for my 25 yr old car taking a cucumber sandwich and a bottle of tap water
> for lunch and no other money....whilst the
> 'priest' drove the same distance in a brand new
> vehicle with all the bells and whistles to go to
> the theatre.
> The Mormon scriptures state "excess"...
> To me that means whatever you have left after all
> dutiful payment for goods and services and food
> and medecine. Yet that's not how the authorities
> see it....All good Mormons pay 10% up front on
> what their income is before they pay anything
> else.
>
> If I went to rengotiate my mortgage...the bank
> wpuld want to see a statement of my income...and...a
> Government Age Pension, by law, is not considered
> as INCOME.
> I do not have a valid income that I might present
> to a bank as proof of being able to afford the new
> mortgage amount.
> So how to pay tithes on 10% on what is not
> considered in the world of finance to be Income?
> Forget..'Excess'! Forget interest" I have no
> money yeilding investments.
> Until I solve this problem I am considered to be
> living in the world of Satan and cannot be
> admitted to the Temple and if I die I won't be let
> in one of the heavens where people see god!
> Mmmmmm....Don't know what to believe.....answers anyone?

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: October 17, 2015 08:34AM

Please start a new thread with your query. We want you to get the answers that you need.

As an ex-Catholic myself, I have to say...did you ever jump from the frying pan into the fire! For heaven's sake, you would be so better off in a regular Christian church (i.e. Methodist, Presbyterian, Anglican, ELCA Lutheran, etc.) Please, please, please, rethink your conversion to Mormonism. The Mormon church is a *highly* controlling religion similar to the JWs.

As for tithing, please don't give the Mormon church a dime. The church does *not* need your money. The church owns the massive City Creek retail and residential complex in Salt Lake City, the Polynesian Cultural Center in Hawaii, many other commercial properties, and dozens of for-profit businesses. The Mormon church is (by far) the largest landowner in Florida! And church president Monson is driven around in a special Audi that cost more than half a million dollars.

YOU desperately need your money. Please do not let the church steal it from you. The temple ceremony is nothing special. It was ripped off of the Masons (Joseph Smith and his cronies were Masons.) You can find videos of the ceremony online. As a former Catholic, do you really believe that you have to learn special handshakes to get into heaven?

Mormon church authorities should be ashamed of themselves for extorting money from pensioners such as yourself. Yet they feel no sense of shame. I understand your beef with Catholicism, but at least the Catholic church does genuine charity, and doesn't request more money of you than you can easily give.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2015 08:38AM by summer.

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Posted by: ExCentric ( )
Date: October 17, 2015 10:43AM

Yes, some of it does make it into the hands of needy members, but they also SELL it to the other members for food storage! Every month, members have the opportunity to buy an item for their emergency supply. So they make members feel guilty for not having a year of food storage and they offer to sell them those items tbat will help complete it. Doesn't seem suspicious, right?

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Posted by: NevermoinIdaho ( )
Date: October 17, 2015 12:32PM

No idea what is done with most of it, but some local here donated a bunch of peanut butter to the local (secular, though most of the volunteers are various church folks, especially my Episcopal church) food bank. I know because I have some from the last couple of times I had to go.

I have no problem eating it, either. At least it's going to good use.

Directing people to other churches deliberately is disgusting - mine will help anybody from the community, but relying on that so as to send more $$$ to SLC? F**k that. Jerks.

I will say that outside the Morridor there is a general perception that Mormons take care of their own, but inside it, all the non-Mormons I know know waaaaay better.

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Posted by: Joy ( )
Date: February 15, 2014 03:52AM

I live in Salt Lake City, and the cult doesn't help us, either. When my husband abandoned us, and took all our money, I went to the bishop for help, and he told me to pay tithing anyway (I didn't have any cash at all for utilities or gas, and he said to sell something and take the bus) and that "The Lord" would take care of me and my children. I decided to take care of things myself. I did sell a lot of my possessions, but instead of paying tithing, I hired an attorney and got child support. Yes, the cult has always said, "Ask your own family for help fist," even since I can remember, and maybe even before that. The largesse of Mormon welfare is just a myth.

The only people the church really helps (in Salt Lake or anywhere else) are the RELATIVES of higher-ups. Their hiring practices reflect that, as well. In Mormon society, "It's who you know."

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Posted by: chomp ( )
Date: February 15, 2014 05:32PM

Great news.
Hopefully they will leave the church

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Posted by: fluhist ( )
Date: February 15, 2014 05:55PM

Anon2, where did these terrible practices of shocking gay people occur? If you prefer you can write to me privately lg6ten@gmail.com.

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Posted by: fluhist ( )
Date: February 16, 2014 07:42PM

Hello Anon2,

I am really shocked at the sites you sent me. I was aware of this sort of aversion therapy in mental hospitals in the 1930s or so, but in the 1970s and because of the church held beleif? Good grief!!


Waht concerns me even more than the treatments is the self loathing these people felt. How awful! How cruel!!

Thankyou for sending me the sites, I had NO idea.

I can no more place this sort of torture in the frame of a loving God than I can fly to the moon. What a farce!!

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Posted by: Ex-Sis ( )
Date: October 17, 2015 03:06AM

To ghjk33 (mid thread)

You may want to start a new topic for suggestions/assistance.

Please do not give your $ to one of the wealthiest churches in the world. You need it to care for yourself. If they won't help you, write to the local paper or news station to report the Mormons and the failure to assist older members in need.

Wishing you well.

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Posted by: The Invisible Green Potato ( )
Date: October 17, 2015 03:34AM

I always took the view that Jesus would understand your circumstances and your reasons for not following a particular commandment. I inherited that attitude from my grandmother, who didn't attend church because her non-member husband wouldn't tolerate it. Did my grandmother sacrifice a place in heaven because she put her family before church attendance? I like to think not.

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Posted by: Exmoron ( )
Date: October 17, 2015 09:14AM

Yes, they fail miserable as a charity, but score huge as a corporation. Depends on who is getting the so called assistance from the church. In my last ward, we paid a family's $1,500 mortgage for five years, while the father was "out of work." None of us locals could understand why he got special treatment, but then we finally figured out that his wife was related to Mormon royalty...she mentioned it in her testimony one day. Then it hit me like a ton of bricks..."that is why." Beginning of the end for me.

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