which topic addressed by the essays do you think will ultimately damage the Church the most and why?

Mine is Race and the Priesthood because it ultimately shows that the upper leadership is fallible. They had been preaching the "curse of Cain" thing as doctrine over multiple generations and now it is doctrinally disavowed. To me, that is HUGE. It ultimately lessens the power the upper leadership has over the Church.

Like the old quote goes "When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done" Sounds like we need to start thinking :)

Up till last week, I would've agreed about Blacks and the Priesthood. But the new one about BoM DNA is seriously stunning in my opinion. TSCC is basically saying the BoM should be taken "spiritually" not historically, and that the leaders believe in evolution and not Adam & Eve.

I just can't wrap my head around that one.

Haven't been keeping up with essays lately. IS there a link to BoM and DNA so us lazy types don't have to scour lds.org?

Here's the link: https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-and-dna-studies

I didn't take that from the DNA essay. Is it this line that gave you that impression?:

"Although the primary purpose of the Book of Mormon is more spiritual than historical..."

The essay goes on to affirm the church's stance that the BoM is a literal history, and concludes with this: "Book of Mormon record keepers were primarily concerned with conveying religious truths and preserving the spiritual heritage of their people. They prayed that, in spite of the prophesied destruction of most of their people, their record would be preserved and one day help restore a knowledge of the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ."

The church absolutely believe that the book is a history of real people. They also believe that Adam and Eve were the first human beings on earth. They can NEVER deny this. ALL of their modern scriptures confirm the literal existence of Adam and Eve, and Joseph even located Adam's altar and based the endowment ceremony on the story. They out JS as a bull$#!+ artist if they EVER deny that Adam and Eve were literal beings placed in a magical garden.

Chump Wrote:
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> "Although the primary purpose of the Book of
> Mormon is more spiritual than historical..."

The following link is an interesting response to the DNA essay, it's along the lines of the "more spiritual than historical" quote.

http://goodreasonblog.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-lds-statement-on-dna-and-book-of.html

Chump, I completely agree that, on the surface, all they're saying is the BoM is more about the nephite/lamanite spirituality versus just giving a complete secular history.

But, it's a double entendre. The essay CLEARLY states they're accepting an evolutionary view of humanity versus a garden of Eden creation beginning.

The only way they can explain away no DNA evidence is to say it's been lost through "bottlenecking", "drifting" or there were simply so many other people in the Americas that the Jaredites, Lehites and Mulekites never "penetrated" the native's DNA that were already living on the continent (going completely against the teachings in the BoM).

The extreme generational timelines (multi-thousands of years) involved to mitigate the no DNA reasoning totally discredit any type of actual historicity of the tower of babel, the great flood, Adam & Eve and, in the end, the need for a savior.

It's completely crazy when you start to think of all the ramifications of this essay!! Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if they take it off the website. You just can't go around giving credibility to evolutionary studies when your own scriptures and "prophet$" say that man has only existed 6,000 years and NOTHING DIED until Eve partook of that delicious fruit.

As the church dismantles it's current teachings, they'll point to this essay showing the BoM was simply meant as a "spiritual" guide and not true history.

With the DNA essay TSCC is actually attempting to turn BoM into the Bible in the sense that many people consider many parts of the Bible symbolic, and in many ways not necessarily historically accurate. The problem is that BoM is ~180 years old while the Bible (NT) is ~1900 years old. Unfortunately to TSCC JS lived in the historical times with a good deal of written accounts and other evidence that passage of time hasn't yet destroyed or much distorted. TSCC is doing their best, but alas, it's too late! :D

Sexism incudes misogyny and homophobia.

Agree with NNN. The priesthood ban essay was huge; it proved that the church can teach a doctrine for many decades and then reject it as "folklore" and not valid. That means that people can now hold their ground when they disagree about gay marriage, women and the priesthood, etc. The essay is a big deal.

But the BOM/DNA essay is even more important. It disavows the Garden of Eden, no-death-before Adam, and the Flood. By denying the flood, it denies the Jaredites. The essay also denies the D&C, with its 6-10 statements that the American Indians are Lamanites, and the words of every prophet from Joseph Smith to at least Spencer Kimball. And by engaging in the scientific debate, the DNA article sets itself up for humiliation every time another genetic discovery reinforces the Indians-as-Asians reality.

I read the BOM/DNA article, with its great length and detail and doctrinal heresy as indicating that the church is terrified. They clearly feel like they are on the ropes. Their rope-a-dope strategy, though, won't work against the Mike Tyson of science.

NNN and Lot's Wife: you may be on to something. Honestly, I haven't had the time, mindset, and wherewithal to dig into the DNA essay in depth and wade through all the scientific stuff and do my own analysis.

I need to sit down and do that :) I might be enlightened :)

I'd recommend that. Maybe not even look at the science, just notice the doctrines that have been thrown under the bus. If you want to understand the scientific. . . liberties. . . read Simon Southerton's rebuttal. But I think the essay is remarkable for its rejections of traditional teachings and the evident panic. Just compare the length and detail with any of the other articles.

I sometimes think that the church draws attention to one argument while surreptitiously making equally or more important "adjustments" to other problems, like the old doctrines. The sum of the essays to date has been a radical redefinition of what the church teaches.

...the essay which is now being prepared is titled "The City Creek Center and Your Tithing Monies".

...in it, the GA's explanation will include the notion that a full-tithe payer has all the Mall's blessings; including discount and promotional opportunities not given to average members. Free underground parking for a year. Free security escort by Mall security. A signed foto of Monson exclaiming "Let's go shopping!"...

...and, the revelation that "some" tithes were used......

The most damning will be the one explaining polyandry and child rape.

Which makes me wonder if they'll completely ignore that one in their parade of essays.

It's gonna be pretty damn hard to spin that one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2014 07:01PM by Strength in the Loins.

FAIR already has all these issues spelled out. It was on FAIR that I read that Smith had 14 wives who had other living men. I thought it was 11. http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/fair-conferences/2012-fair-conference/2012-joseph-smiths-sexual-polyandry-and-the-emperors-new-clothes-on-closer-inspection-what-do-we-find

"My research supports that fourteen of Joseph Smith’s plural wives had legal husbands"

Which one...the superficial DNA essay has the most impact because it's obviously a red herring and sounds like they're explaining away why their dog ate their homework. The blacks and the priesthood essay just shows that they're a$$holes.

The DNA one.
It flushes the Flood, Adam and Eve, Babel, book of Mormon down the toilet.

Surely this has to have hurt even remotely honest thinking members?

Had none of the authors even read the book of Mormon?