3 speakers: Stake President, Mission President, and GA (Interesting stats included).

I just attended stake priesthood leadership meeting of Stake Conference. The visiting General Authority was Boyd K. Packer’s oldest son, Allan F. Packer, of the First Quorum of the Seventy. http://www.lds.org/church/leader/allan-f-packer

He spoke last on Hastening the Work of Salvation. I took very few notes of his message. It was absolutely the most-boring, worst-presentation I have ever witnessed in my entire life as a LDS. I was stunned. He touted some of the significant LDS changes in the last 2-3 years:

1) The lowering of missionary ages. Last month (December 2013) there were 12,000 new full-time missionary calls issued. There aren’t that many coming home and so things will peak at around 100,000 before the numbers come back down and start to equalize with the older missionaries (those Elders that left after age 19, and sisters age 21).

2) The youth curriculum changed with them teaching one topic per month. The program is called, “Come Follow Me.”

3) The October 8th letter on family history changes (whatever ?).

4) The new emphasis on ‘Real Growth’ statistics.

If I could critique the entire talk it would be this: the Church leaders must really be in a panic as this guy was not optimistic and very concerned with “retention and inactivity -- it has the Brethren very concerned.”

****Speaker Two****

The Stake President spoke and said he’s been “vexed for the past two years.” In 2008 convert baptisms spiked 4 times. In the last 2 years they’ve fallen just as fast. He mentioned there are tons of weekly visits being made with the missionaries on splits with Bishopric members, etc. with a tremendous amount of inviting, but nobody is truly interested and we’re not getting really great baptisms.

He said in the last 3 years there have been 55 baptisms. Many are from non-members in part member families. The majority has been a surge in 9 year-olds. There have been 5 complete families enter the Church representing 1/5th of all baptisms.


Another 1/5th want nothing to do with the Church.

The remaining 3/5ths need (and I quote), "To be cultivated many times and and need a social conversion first before a spiritual conversion.”

BIG QUOTE:

The big problem with “Hastening the Work of Salvation is if you do it as an ASSIGNMENT you will hate it and it will become a thorn in your side. You have to want to do it and love it for it to become rewarding.”

***Speaker Three***

President Lincoln Watkins, of the San Jose California Mission.

This was the mission chosen by Elder Ballard of the Q12 as the pilot program for the “Just Service Only Mission” of the Church. No door knocking – it is prohibited. Watkins tells his missionaries they’ll be sent home if they proselyte.

Watkins gave some very interesting stats. But first a bit of background on him. He retired in his mid 40’s as a bond trader (maybe for LDS INC.). Raced formula one racing cars as a retired hobby. Zero leadership skills as a bishop, or stake president (just an MTC branch president in Provo). Has an estimated net worth of $250 million. His brother returned July 2012 as MP in Madrid Spain. Watkins purchased the last big 'coveted' property on some Hawaiian Islands in 2011 for several million $$ on some mountain peak. It’s situated between a wildlife preserve and Harrison Ford’s estate (the actor). He’s building a multi-million dollar mansion on the property with guest house and pool and will move there at the end of his mission term this June 2014. All the misshies are invited to come visit. He goes on spending sprees buying suits for the missionaries every so often. Sister Watkins does the same for the sisters clothing department since (according to Pres. Watkins) “She is a world-class shopper.”

At this session of stake conference, Watkins said there were 180 missionaries when he arrived in 2011. It grew to 220, then 238. A few months ago he was notified by the missionary department in SLC that all domestic missions would have at least 250 missionaries – and at that phone call, San Jose had just reached 260. They are now at 290 and will hit 300.

The stake went from 19 missionaries to 46.

Salt Lake asked him, “What kind of missionary do you want?” He asked for ALL SISTER missionaries. There were 34 when he arrived and there are now 120. The only mission in the Church with more Sister Missionaries is the Temple Square SLC Mission. Watkins says the sisters outperform the elders.

Baptism Stats:

Last June 2010 was the peak of baptisms and started going downhill with the previous mission president, Eric Jackson (attorney) of Phoenix, AZ. They bottomed out in August 2013. With the increase of missionaries there has NOT been an increase in baptisms. Currently the mission is baptizing about 500/year (many are age 9 in part member families) with a capacity of 10-20,000 in this area. Even though this is a service mission, the missionaries are most effective in teaching.

He emphasized the ward council’s utilization of the missionaries who must mingle with the members so that members will “like” the missionaries before feeling comfortable doing missionary work.

It used to be that the missionary’s service was 90% on member’s residences. It has been changed to 50% humanitarian, 25% community, and 25% residential (no explanation of what those categories mean). They try to limit service to 14hours/week and fill the rest with teaching. (That doesn’t make sense for a service oriented mission.)

FOOD:

One ward in particular was over-feeding the missionaries and they were all gaining weight. He blasted the members for feeding the missionaries 4-course meals, especially at the Bishop’s homes. The 5-9pm time slot is the most productive time, and too much food is making the missionaries full and sleepy.

His solution was to stop these 2-hour dinner appointments, and bring them down to 20 minutes. “Serve ‘em soup, sandwich & apple.” That’s it!

Too many members are signing up to feed the missionaries, rather than having phone calls made by (he suggests) the ward mission leader to inactive, or part-member families where missionaries can reactivate and teach lessons -- which equals baptisms and rescuing.

****
I came home, reviewed my notes, and couldn’t help but wish I could have just sent a message up to the SP and Packer (old and grumpy, 100 times more boring than his daddy KKK), “The reason you’re having such a tough time is because the Church is not true and folks are reading up on all the facts at MormonThink.com.”

EDIT: THE Mission President said, "The San Jose California Mission is the 1 in 410 chosen as a service only mission."

2ND EDIT: Not one of these three men bore a testimony and said the Church is True. None of them even mentioned the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith. What's going on?

3RD EDIT: The Mission President said they have a 5-5-5 program. Essentially you have 5 new contacts to start teach, 5 current contacts in mid-stream discussions, and 5 that are either progressing very well, or starting to die off. The key is to keep the rotation moving so there is a 'dynamic' flow of people to teach. One of the BIG PROBLEMS is that missionaries come in, open their area planning books and are using the same old 5-5-5 contacts that are a year old. That's not productive. "We need fresh contacts to teach."



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2014 02:16PM by jiminycricket.

thanks jiminy

So missionaries in San Jose are eating too much and my niece in Argentina doesn't have enough money to purchase fresh fruits and vegetables. Especially after the foreign service premiums charged on the ATM withdrawals she has to use to get cash.

You know, I was in the states and I could only afford mac n cheese, so the food that kept me going was when members would invite us over. Ridiculous, getting fat... It is just like a big sales corp being unhappy about their employees taking 20 minute coffee breaks when corporate has only approved 15 minute breaks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2014 06:40PM by notnewatthisanymore.

The "Hastening of the Work" is going to be an EPIC FAIL. There isn't a market for Mormonism. Sending more salesman to oversaturated markets isn't going to produce more sales. This is funny to watch.

Let the decline of Mormonism begin!

Thanks for the information ------ there is no way I would go to a Stake Conference with my tbm wife. I really detest being around brainwashed people very long ---- I guess I am a loner by nature and I get creeped out easily. Last Stake conf. I went to I was soo creaped out by some brainless GA, making fun of Christians and people questioning the church's history ----- seemed to me the devil himself but I am sure the true saints were uplifted!

They sell a crappy product and word gets around.

Dissatisfied members generally will tell another 100 people what they feel is wrong with Mormonism.

And the members that are TBMs and very satisfied with their church experience... HATE missionary work. HATE IT.

Now 1 out of 5 active families do love missionary work and will always be feeding them and inviting them over on holidays, but the other 4 out of 5 have better things to do.

Hm-m-m. Service mission. They go live there, but missionaries are limited to 14 hours a week? That's not even a part-time job.

"(People) need a social conversion first before a spiritual conversion." And an intellectual conversion? Never! My relative who is on a mission now says that they never teach or have discussions. In the MTC, he was expecting to learn more about the church, but instead it was all about winning people's confidence and selling yourself. They serve only to impress. Actually, it isn't really "service" in our definition of the word, in the context of "serving mankind." All he does is repair church members' cars and tractors.

What an interesting post! Thank you.

Just, wow! The aim is to mass-bamboozle lonely people into liking the missionaries first, then press for baptism. A two-step program that shouldn't be rushed, folks. The missionaries wait until they can threaten potential converts with the loss of those new (fake) friendships, loss of community, loss of maybe a potential sex interest. Yup, women are better at subtlety and finesse.

It looks more and more like a CULT.

How do these dick heads get away with this crap... Calling the lame sons and daughters to serve in leadership positions.

This is just ONE of the sure signs TSCC is a fraud.

Simple corporate nepotism is all this is. Check out the background on Allan Packer. Leadership positions in Mormon owned companies.

Just to be fair, does anyone know Packer the Younger and can testify of his bonafides?

I remember Grant Palmer stating in his ex-Mormon Conference 2012 YouTube address, ". . . In fact when the Church gets more and more under siege, you can tell because they start putting their relatives in these positions -- that they can trust because they won't fall away."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHsvZooc4Bc&t=18m59s

Packer had no personality. No charisma. No smiles. No enthusiasm. No motivation. No encouragement. No compliments. No stellar testimony. Nothing inspirational. Horrid speaking skills. Absolutely terrible. Pure utter complete boredom.

He's just proof of Mormon nepotism -- and is putting in the hours till he retires with his golden emeritus-pension-package.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2014 02:14PM by jiminycricket.

Thanks jc - interesting read. All the missions should be service only missions. Would help the image of the church.

Allan Packer spoke at stake conference here in the last couple of years and ITA with your assessment of him. He was truly boring and awful. I wish I could remember what he spoke of…indexing? Maybe. It was whatever new online program the church was rolling out at the time. Anyway, he was disorganized, his stories were boring, his delivery was monotone, and he went on forever! What he said in 35 minutes could have been said much better in 5.

was this a broadcast for a large area or an old fashioned meeting?

This was a 'normal' local stake conference with a visiting GA held at the stake center. The Chapel was about 3/4 full.

If you could describe the faces of the leaders in attendance, they would say, "I hate this hastening; This is all they ever talk about; I'm so tired of feeling guilty; I hate to invite non-members to church; I can't stand to deal with inactives; I have more important things to do on a Saturday; Thank goodness the GA didn't make me raise my hand and commit to his little goal - plan - thingy.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2014 02:10PM by jiminycricket.

So they are going to try doing actual service in one mission to see if it works as a recruitment tool?

Jesus would be so proud.

'but nobody is truly interested and we’re not getting really great baptisms.'

Did he really use those words? That's classic - so if you were one of the baptisms, then look at yourself in the mirror and repeat, 'I'm not a great addition to the church'. That's how the church feels about you according to this GA's quote.

Yes, that is what was said. I was writing as fast as I could and wrote down that phrase. This was the stake president's quote not the GA's. He had the most pessimistic comments of the three speakers.

BTW: the stake president is a lawyer. You'd think he'd chose his words better. Also, he was the biggest contributor in the stake to the California Proposition 8 campaign against same-sex marriage. He gave $5,000.

"The remaining 3/5ths need (and I quote), "To be cultivated many times and and need a social conversion first before a spiritual conversion.”
>>>When 3/5 of your flock quit and go away, this speaks of real problems. But this is Mormonism, and this is what they accept as "normal."


"The visiting General Authority was Boyd K. Packer’s oldest son, Allan F. Packer, of the First Quorum of the Seventy."
>>>Generations of installing your own children as leaders is indicative of a special kind of problem that an organization is having. It becomes incestuous because the public is not interested enough to give them new DNA. I think it indicates a sort of plant withering long-term on the vine, never growing healthy, never producing anything but crappy fruit.


"Watkins purchased the last big 'coveted' property on some Hawaiian Islands in 2011 for several million $$ on some mountain peak. It’s situated between a wildlife preserve and Harrison Ford’s estate (the actor). He’s building a multi-million dollar mansion on the property with guest house and pool and will move there at the end of his mission term this June 2014."
>>>In a church with such a shallow understanding, people like Watkins are what makes Mormonism "true" to the bulk of members.


"He asked for ALL SISTER missionaries."
>>>Those Hawaiian visits by ex-missionaries will take on new meaning as his harem grows. Sweet gig, if you can get it.

. . . I told the missionary department I have 5 sisters, a mother, a wife and four daughters. Don't worry I know how to handle sisters. I know how they think. I've got p-l-e-n-t-y of experience. [one of the few laughs of the evening]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2014 02:09PM by jiminycricket.

jiminycricket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> . . . I told the missionary department I have 5
> sisters, a mother, a wife and four daughters.
> Don't worry I know how to handle sisters. I know
> how they think. I've got p-l-e-n-t-y of
> experience.

I must love them more. I have a DW, eight daughters, 4 DILs and 14 GDs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2014 04:33PM by rhgc.

They us a program called 5-5-5??

Usually you would change your throughput design to accommodate changes in input volumes. You wouldn't however change your throughput design thinking that it will magically effect input volume. In other words, their program doesn't explain 1) how the five new contacts pool will be maintained? tracting? Member referrals? weren't those the methods employed before 5-5-5? If so, why would the 5-5-5 change anything? 2) What will they be doing to progress 5 people into "decent" teaching contacts? Is the message content or delivery changing so that five in ten contacts (five progressing/five dwindling) actually want to progress to baptism?

This is nuts. On my mission they would "commit" us to 1 baptism each transfer (6 week intervals). "Will you have one baptism this transfer?". Of course we would all say yes, but only on a fluke would we meet this commitment. It always pissed me off, even as an active missionary, because I felt I was being held accountable for the actions of other people. I felt that the only way I could meet this commitment was by either by passing and fast tracking the spiritual development process that God had in mind for this person, or just lucking out that the final stages of this person's spiritual development towards baptism were going to occur within this six week interval. It just didn't work in my mind. I knew a "sales person" could have influence on the volume and rate of their numbers, but I didn't think that was the appropriate tactics for messengers and ambassadors of Jesus Christ. I felt our job was to facilitate the spirit and spiritual development of investigators.

Your point is well taken. My Mission President was all about numbers. He never mentioned that we were to find and teach 'the elect' who the Lord had prepared for us, personal "ambassadors of Jesus Christ."

WRT Mormon nepotism, I found this interesting:

http://mormonmatters.org/2008/04/14/nepotism-in-the-church/

It's dated (five years old), but it has an interesting table of nepotisic relationships in TSCC's hierarchy.

It's all BUSINESS~ BUSY NESS


What a buncha bullsh!t.

Gracias for the updates...

Does the F stand for fudge?

So was the conference for San Jose Stake? From SJ, remaining family TBM, so they don't tell me the good stuff.

Worse than this are the jobs that are given to relatives in companies run by TBMs as well as BYU professorships. While knowing someone always helps, if it is one of the bretheren asking a TBM hiring manager to consider a relative how could they ever say no?

"The Mission President said they have a 5-5-5 program. Essentially you have 5 new contacts to start teach, 5 current contacts in mid-stream discussions, and 5 that are either progressing very well, or starting to die off. The key is to keep the rotation moving so there is a 'dynamic' flow of people to teach."


Hmmmm. Maybe we should have a 6-6-6 program for potential exmormons. :-)

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hmmmm. Maybe we should have a 6-6-6 program for
> potential exmormons. :-)

Lol - that would be terrific on so many levels!

"a visiting GA held at the stake center. The Chapel was about 3/4 full"

Only 3/4 full with a visiting GA?

that says a lot in itself.

Packer's son ?

Uh oh !

It's a mormon dynasty !