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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: January 08, 2014 10:39PM

OK, I've said more than once on this board that I was looking with some detail into the case of Arthur Patton's fate--the young Navy man who vanished from his ship during the last months of World War II, and about whom Mormon Church prevaricating prophet, seer and manipulator, Thomas Monson, has spun more than one teetering tall tale in the name of peddling false faith over findable facts. The research has essentially been done for awhile now (thanks to a considerable amount of help from a friend who knew how and where to go for much of the critical data), so at some point I'll be putting it up on RfM in final form, in all its delightfully damning detail.

In the meantime, in response to recent inquiries about Monson's shameless pattern of Patton-padding, here's a basic outline that defines how Monson's storyline just doesn't pass the smell test. (Per those inquiries, see: "Did I Miss the Ending? A[rthur] Patton . . .," posted by "otedge," on "Recovery from Mormonism" discussion board, 8 January 2014, at: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1131443)
_____


Let's first review--especially for true-believing Mormons lurking here who fervently desire to cut Monson a break on his screwup-riddled recitations--how Tom describes Arthur's death on a stage set that Monson piously presents as factual for both Patton and his ship.

If only.

--The Muddied Waters of Monson's Mormon Marvel-Comics World

In his October 2007 General Conference talk, entitled, "Mrs. Patton--the Story Continues," Monson paints a combat picture in which he says Patton's ship was involved--and in which he states unequivocally that Patton was combat-killed.

Before going further, let's forget the inconvenient fact that Monson initially, and falsely, claimed Patton was killed in action in 1942 onboard the U.S.S. Lexington in the Coral Sea. He abruptly changed his tune some 38 years later to intone that Patton actually was KIA in 1944 onboard the U.S.S. White Plains off the coast of Saipan. Monson never bothered to make public note of that significant alteration in his varying versions of events (hoping, no doubt, that his blindly-obedient flock wasn't paying attention to such things as dates, places and ship names).

Concerning the Saipan scene where Monson says Patton perished in combat, Monson asserts:

"In March 1944 with the war now raging, Arthur was transferred from the U.S.S. Dorsey, a destroyer, to the U.S.S. White Plains, an aircraft carrier. While at Saipan in the South Pacific, the ship was attacked. Arthur was one of those on board who was lost at sea. . . .

"The blue star was taken from its hallowed spot in the front window of the Patton home. It was replaced by one of gold, indicating that he whom the blue star represented had been killed in battle."

("Mrs. Patton—the Story Continues: I Am Certain Our Heavenly Father was Mindful of Her Needs and Wanted Her to Hear the Comforting Truths of the Gospel," by Thomas S. Monson, first counselor in the LDS First Presidency, General Conference sermon, Salt Lake City, Utah, October 2007, in "Ensign," the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, at: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2007/10/mrs-patton-the-story-continues?lang=eng)


Nice try on the retry, Tom. Now for a cold-water splash of reality--one that covers several aspects of fact which, to Monson, are irrelevant to his goal of telling a good fib, facts be damned. So, here we go. Full speed ahead.
_____


--The Historically-Documentable Evidence as to the Location and Operations of Patton's Ship

According to the ship's own "Report of Changes of U.S.S. White Plains (CVE 66) for the month ending 19th day of July 1944," Patton was declared as "missing" on 4 July 1944, not (as Monson falsely suggests) in March 1944. Moreover, that "missing" designation was ascribed in Patton's case as being the "result of own misconduct." In other words, Patton was not classified by his ship's crew log as having been killed during, or as a result of, battle action.

Also reported "Missing as result of own misconduct" on the same day as Patton was a fellow shipmate, Blake Lewis Pauley. On the report itself, the designation for both men as "Missing" (handwritten over the crossed-out, typed abbreviation "Trans." for "Transferred") appears under category 7: "Received, transferred, deserted, discharged, change of rating, death, or any other change of status." The designation for both men as "Missing as result of own misconduct" appears in category 9, under the sub-heading: "Vessel or station from which received, to what vessel or station transferred, when discharged and character of discharge; where deserted, and amount due or overpaid. When died, cause of death and where and when buried. If rated and authority for same. If disrated, give cause; if on detached duty, give place of duty. If paassenger, give purpose of travel and final disposition."

("Report of Changes of U.S.S. White Plains [CVE 66] for the month ending 19th day of July 1944," line 4 for "Arthur Frank Patton," Service Number: 368 71 14, Date of Enlistment: 10 Dec. 41, Place of Enlistment: Salt Lake City; line 5 for Blake Lewis Pauley, Service Number: 632 44 04, Date of Enlistment: 16 Feb. 42, Place of Enlistment: Los Angeles; photocopy of the actual "Report of Changes" log in my possession).


An historical review is in order with regard to the U.S.S. White Plains' documented combat operations off Saipan in the summer of 1944--as duly noted on a website devoted to the World War II actions of that particular vessel. It includes the following description of the ship's actual combat activities:

"'Saipan--15 through 22 June 1944'

"At the end of May she stood out of Pearl Harbor in company with units of the task force assembled to invade the Marinas. WHITE PLAINS' portion of the Fleet sortied from Eniwetok Atoll and during the voyage from there to the Marinas, her aircraft provided anti-submarine and combat air patrol. On June 17, her anti-aircraft gunners earned their first definite kill. Later, VC-4 Avengers successfully torpedoed an enemy transport during a sweep of the island of Rota. . . .

"In July she supported the Tinian assault. . . ."

("Photographs of Task Force Unit 77.4.3,, Including Specifications and Histories," under "U.S.S. White Plains [CVE 66]," at: http://www.bosamar.com/pages/cve66, original emphasis)


Below is additional combat history of the U.S.S. White Plains in the Saipan theater with further details provided of its specific combat operations:

"At the end of May, the White Plains steamed out of port in company with units of the Task Forces assembled to invade the Mariana Islands. The portion of the Fleet containing the White Plains sortied from Eniwetok Atoll, and during the voyage from there to the Marianas, her aircraft provided anti-submarine warfare patrols and part of the combat air patrol.

"During the assault on Saipan, her planes continued to cover the Fleet against submarine and air attack, strafed the beaches, and spotted shellfire for gunfire support ships. They helped repulse at least three major enemy air attacks. On 17 June, while helping to fight off those raids, her antiaircraft gunners earned their first definite kill. Later, VC-4 Avengers successfully torpedoed an enemy transport during a sweep of the island of Rota."

("U.S.S. White Plains [CVE-66]," under "Service History: World War II," at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_White_Plains_%28CVE-66%29)


Note that the above accounts do not indicate that the U.S.S. White Plains suffered significant casualties or damage as a result of these combat operations.

The U.S.S. White Plains left the combat zone off Saipan on 2 July 1944--meaning that (contrary to Monson's story) Patton was not killed in combat within that zone or time period because his ship was, in fact, steaming to and/or arriving at an atoll outside the combat zone before Patton was declared "missing as result of own misconduct":

"[The U.S.S.] WHITE PLAINS departed the combat zone on 2 July but, after a week at Eniwetok, returned to the Marianas with her air squadron upgraded to a total of 28 aircraft. During her second tour of duty in the Marianas, the escort carrier supported the Tinian assault late in July. Her planes carried out sortie after sortie in support of the troops ashore and over the ships assembled, but WHITE PLAINS herself suffered no enemy attacks. Her heavy flight schedule proved grueling to air squadron and ship's company alike."

("U.S.S. White Plains [CVE 66], formerly ELBOUR BAY, formerly ACV 66, formerly AVG 66, later CVU 66, decommissioned," under "History of U.S.S. WHITE PLAINS," at: http://navysite.de/cve/cve66.htm, original emphasis)
_____


--Available Records on the Ultimate Status/Fate of Patton

A World War II combined-task-unit casualty list (one that included the U.S.S. White Plains) reveals, contrary to Monson's claim, no--repeat--no "Arthur Patton" listed as killed or missing in action. Accompanying that list is the note that "KIA/MIAs are verified via the MEN LOST IN ACTION FROM THE CVE/DD/DE's OF TAFFY III monument at Fort Rosecrans National Cemetery, San Diego, CA."

("Crew Lists of Task Unit 77.4.3: U.S.S. White Plains [CVE 66] and Composite Squadron VC-4," original emphasis, free login or registration required for viewing, at: http://www.bosamar.com/pages/crew_main)


A failure by Patton and shipmate Pauley to return to their ship before it set sail would seem to be more of an AWOL (absent without leave) matter than a combat death at sea. Furthermore, if they were AWOL, they would most likely have been designated as such.

Below are relevant points in regard to AWOL, per the Uniform Military Code of Justice:

“Any person subject to this chapter who through neglect or design MISSES the movement of a ship, aircraft, or unit with which he is required in the course of duty to move shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

"Elements.

"(1) That the accused was required in the course of duty to move with a ship, aircraft or unit;

"(2) That the accused knew of the prospective movement of the ship, aircraft or unit;

"(3) That the accused missed the movement of the ship, aircraft or unit; and

"(4) That the accused missed the movement through design or neglect.

"Explanation.

"(1) Movement.

"'Movement' as used in Article 87 includes a move, transfer, or shift of a ship, aircraft, or unit involving a substantial distance and period of time. Whether a particular movement is substantial is a question to be determined by the court-martial considering all the circumstances. Changes which do not constitute a 'movement' include practice marches of a short duration with a return to the point of departure, and minor changes in location of ships, aircraft, or units, as when a ship is shifted from one berth to another in the same shipyard or harbor or when a unit is moved from one barracks to another on the same post."

("Punitive Articles of the UCMJ: Article 87--Missing Movement," by Rod Powers, at: http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/87.htm, emphasis added)


If Patton was, in fact, deemed "missing" because he was AWOL, he would, as noted above, have conceivably been so categorized, or perhaps been determined to have "deserted." Since Patton wasn't designated as either AWOL or "deserted," it appears likely that some other kind of non-combat related fate befell him and Pauley--one caused by their "own misconduct" (whatever that happened to have been, including, perhaps, some kind of accident brought on by their personal actions)--which then led them to be officially designated as "missing."
_____


--Monson Attempts a Post-Mortem Mormon Makeover on Patton, After Getting It Patently Wrong the First Time Around

Patton vanished completely from U.S. military in-service and out-of-service records after July 1944. His mother, according to Monson's 2007 reformulated version of events, eventually informed Monson by letter (after Monson had falsely declared in a 1969 sermon that Patton died in 1942 in the wrong sea and on the wrong boat) that her son was "killed" on 5 July 1944. Monson, however, has not publicly claimed that Patton's mother informed him of how Patton was supposedly "killed."

("Mrs. Patton, Arthur Lives," by "Elder Thomas S. Monson of the Council of the Twelve," published in "Conference Report," 6 April 1969, pp. 126-29, at: http://scriptures.byu.edu/gettalk.php?ID=1698; also reprinted in "New Era," April 1991)


Suffice to say, Patton was apparently not dead on 2 July 1944--the day the U.S.S. White Plains set sail out of the zone of operations for a temporary reprieve from combat at Eniwetok. If Patton had been determined to be dead or missing at an earlier date, his status in that regard would most likely have been so noted in the ship's daily crew records. (Patton was not officially listed in crew records as "Missing as a result of own misconduct" until 4 July 1944). Official California death records note Pauley as having died on 5 July 1944.

Interestingly, no cause of death is listed for Pauley, Patton's shipmate, who also ended up unaccounted for. Here is what the document provides on him, along with the database source:

"Last Name: PAULEY
First Name: BLAKE
Middle: LEWIS
Birth Date: 02/16/1927
Mother Maiden: CRANE
Father Last: PAULEY
Sex: M
Birth Place: CALIFORNIA
Death Place: OTHER COUNTRIES
Residence Death Date: 07/05/1944
SSN: 550-26-4809
Age: 17 yrs"

("The California Department of Health Services Office of Health Information and Research Vital Statistics Section," emphasis in original)


Since Pauley and Patton were officially designated on the U.S.S. White Plains’ "Report of Changes" for the month ending 19 July 1944 as having gone "Missing as result of own misconduct," one could reasonably speculate that Pauley and Patton share the same death date: 5 July 1944. Monson declared that this is the date Patton's mother provided him, in a letter she wrote to Monson, regarding the death date of her son Arthur. In his October 2007 General Conference talk, "Mrs. Patton--the Story Continues," Monson said:

"During the first week of May 1969, to my astonishment and joy, I received a letter postmarked Pomona, California, and dated April 29, 1969. It was from Mrs. Terese Patton. I share with you a part of that letter:

“'Dear Tommy,

“'I hope you don’t mind my calling you Tommy, as I always think of you that way. I don’t know how to thank you for the comforting talk you gave.

“'Arthur was 15 years old when he enlisted in the navy. He was killed one month before his 19th birthday on July 5, 1944.

“It was wonderful of you to think of us. I don’t know how to thank you for your comforting words, both when Arthur died and again in your talk. I have had many questions over the years, and you have answered them. I am now at peace concerning Arthur. . . . God bless and keep you always.

“'Love,

“'Terese Patton”'"


However, there is something about Monson's version of events that seems unusual, even fishy, as it relates to the afore-noted letter from Mrs. Patton to Monson. Her correspondence was not quoted by Monson in the above detail (which detail included Patton's death date of 5 July 1944) for some 38 years after Monson received the letter. When Monson finally got around to quoting this letter in its expanded form, it appears in Monson's 2007 sermon only after Monson's false claim (first made back in 1969 that Patton had died on 8 May 1942 aboard the U.S.S. Lexington in the Coral Sea) had been kept out of from the text of his altered 2007 talk.

Tellingly, the first version of Mrs. Patton's letter from which Monson quotes is placed in shorter, edited form in a postscript to the printed version of Monson's April 1969 General Conference sermon, entitled, "The Message--Arthur Lives." There, Monson mentions having received a letter from Mrs. Patton after giving his 1969 sermon. The portion provided in Monson's postscript does not mention Mrs. Patton's specific reference to her son's death date as being 5 July 1944. Why? To have provided that date would have meant contradicting the false death date that Monson had claimed for Patton in his original 1969 sermon; that false date being 8 May 1942.

The excerpted portion of Mrs. Patton's letter that Monson instead chose to quote in the postscript to his falsely-dated April 1969 sermon reads as follows:

"Note: Following the original broadcast of this message, President Monson received a touching letter from Mrs. Terese Patton, Arthur’s mother, who was living in Pomona, California. Among other things, she wrote, 'I don’t know how to thank you for your wonderful and comforting words. God bless you always.'"

That's it. No death date mentioned. How convenient. Moreover, Monson does not specify to his listening audience what the military told Patton's mother. All he reports is that she told him her son was "killed" on 5 July 1944.
_____


--No Meaningful Information from Monson on How Patton was Supposedly "Killed"

As to Patton's demise, all Monson claims is that:

a) Patton's ship was attacked;

b) Patton was onboard; and

c) Patton was lost at sea.

Did Monson get that information from Patton's mother? He does not say. Keep in mind, though, that Patton was not even in a combat zone when he was officially reported by his ship on 4 July 1944 as being "Missing as result of own misconduct." At that point in time, Patton was on the U.S.S. White Plains steaming to an atoll out of the combat zone for a temporary respite from combat operations.

One would think that if Patton's mother had informed Monson on specific details of Patton's demise, Monson would have eagerly shared them with his audiences. All Monson reports is that Patton "died quickly." Where Monson got that idea is anyone's guess.

Interestingly, in his 2007 sermon Monson evidences some rather detailed knowledge of Patton's military situation (specifically, that Patton was in the Saipan theater aboard the U.S.S. White Plains aircraft carrier, having been transferred to it from the U.S.S. Dorsey, a destroyer). As the years lengthen, Monson's knowledge of Patton's military circumstances curiously appears to have expanded--meaning, that Mrs. Patton wasn't helping him accumulate facts but someone else was. Indeed, in his 2007 sermon, Monson declares, in essence, that he doesn't know where Mrs. Patton is and dramatically speaks to her in abstentia.

The in-theater combat information that Monson relays in the revised version of his talk suggests the probability that, at least by 2007, Monson had researchers doing his homework for him on Arthur Patton matters (such as jettisoning Monson's malfunctioning fable that Patton had died aboard the U.S.S. Lexington in the Coral Sea in 1942). Monson (or at least his handy-dandy sermon writers) could have also had access by this time to internet-available military records (through the able assistance of world-wide-web-savvy Mormon Church genealogists helping to research and/or write his speeches)--which could possibly have informed Monson of Patton's "missing due to own misconduct" status. However, it would not be surprising that if Monson knew, or should have known, about Patton's actual, verifiable missing status in July 1944, he would have chosen not to mention it in his sermons because Monson had already invested too much of his own credibility in casting Patton as a heroic figure who had been "killed in action" and, in the process, "lost at sea."

Making things easier for Monson to fabricate was the fact that Arthur Patton's mother, Terese Patton, was deceased by June 1980.

From the Social Security Death Index:

"Name: Terese Patton
DOB: 11/28/1894
Place of Issuance [of SS #]: UTAH
DOD: June 1980
Last Residence: Visalia, California"


More information from the state of California Death Index:

"Name: Terese Patton
SSN: 529-24-8331
Last Residence: 93277 Visalia, Tulare, California, United States of America
Born: 28 Nov 1894
Last Benefit: 93277 Visalia, Tulare, California, United States of America
Died: Jun 1980
State (Year) SSN issued: Utah (Before 1951)"

Dead moms tell no tales. With Patton's mother out of the way, Monson and his Mormon Mood Machine were home free--or so he ,thought.
_____


--Were Monson and Patton Really Close Boyhood Friends?

Monson's claim of being boyhood buddy-buddies with Patton when the two were growing up in Salt Lake City, Utah, doesn't seem to quite add up, either. This becomes evident by following some of Arthur Patton's family-tree events. Patton's mother's maiden name was Teresa Loikits. His father's name was Louis Albert Lee, or just “Lee” Patton. The Pattons tied to Arthur came from their Chicago line. This particular Chicago family tree indicates that Terese Patton died in Ponoma, California (which is where Monson says he received a postmarked letter from her). Arthur's father died on 8 December 1941, one day after Pearl Harbor and two days before Arthur enlisted in the Navy in Salt Lake City. Arthur Patton's father was still in Chicago at the time of Arthur's father's death.

One would think that Monson, being the great storyteller that he is, would have wanted to include in his inspiring sermon the information about his boyhood friend's dramatic decision to enlist and march off to war. Yet, all Monson says about that time period for Arthur was that "[h]e [Arthur] stood taller than any boy in the class. I suppose this is how, in 1940, as the great conflict which became World War II was overtaking much of Europe, Arthur was able to fool the recruiting officers and enlist in the Navy at the tender age of 15. To Arthur and most of the boys, the war was a great adventure. I remember how striking he appeared in his Navy uniform. How we wished that we were older, or at least taller, so we, too, could enlist."

(see Monson, "Mrs. Patton--the Story Continues;" and Monson, "The Message: Mrs. Patton, Arthur Lives")


No mention by Tom of Arthur joining up just two days after Arthur's dad dies--who had died just one day after Pearl Harbor was attacked. How could Monson have been missing in action on that one? Makes one wonder just how close Tom and Arthur actually were.

******


--Conclusion: Monson, You're Sunk

Monson's mind is a myth-filled, magical mess--and that's putting it kindly.

Truth be told, his glory-story about Arthur Patton is full of unholy holes; the more one researches it, the more evident that fact becomes. Tall-Tale Tom and his spectacularly spiffed-up story have both gone down to a watery grave.

Rest in Pieces.



Edited 67 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2014 03:54PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: Goofy1 ( )
Date: January 08, 2014 11:15PM

So...Monson and Paul H. Dunn were competing for the best tear-jerking, awe-inspiring WWII stories?

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Posted by: Shummie ( )
Date: January 08, 2014 11:46PM

Goofy1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So...Monson and Paul H. Dunn were competing for
> the best tear-jerking, awe-inspiring WWII stories?

Both vieing for the Duke Tully truth-telling through tall tales award methinks.

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Posted by: squeebee ( )
Date: January 08, 2014 11:47PM

Is it bad that I can't read the Monson quote without hearing it in his voice and pacing? It probably is.

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Posted by: elciz ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 12:03AM

I looked up on the church website, several years ago, the 1969 (?) and 2007 (?) talks by Monson on Arthur Patten. I notedit was very odd that he was so specific about the ship and dates and in each talk the details were so different. It just seemed fishy, and Steve found out why it did. There was an ending to this story. What we don't have is why Monson lied about things. I suspect there are more lies he has told in his talks. Maybe he just tells stories to sound good and look good and prop up what he believes in?

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 12:46AM

It astounds the incredulous and keeps the coffers brimming. If Monson actually told the truth, his followers would lose faith in the fantasy.

We can't have that. Roll out the fairy tales.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2014 03:29AM by steve benson.

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Posted by: DLP ( )
Date: March 14, 2014 02:53AM

Arthur Patton was my uncle. I was disgusted to read Monson's "facts" about him and my grandmother. I am so glad that she is not alive to know her son's name is being used in this manner. I definitely will not tell my mother, her daughter, of this story as it would distress her greatly. Thank you for exposing Monson for who he is.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: March 14, 2014 03:27AM

Monson's blatant, deliberate and repeated misuse and abuse of Arthur's name and life is a matter of demonstrable historical fact--a tactic which a manipulative Monson has employed over many years at the expense of the truth, in pursuit of his personal agenda to embellish his own sense of undeserved stature in the eyes of his Mormon followers.

If you are so inclined, I would very much like to communicate with you directly, where you can speak to the reality of Arthur's life--a life which Monson has twisted at the expense of Arthur and other members of your family. You can reach me via email by contacting this forum's administrator, Susan I/S, at: exmolight@gmail.com. Please tell her that you have posted here and that I would like to speak with you, if at all possible. She will then give you my personal email addy, through which you can contact me.

I am sorry for what Monson has done to the facts--and to your family. I would appreciate, with your help, the opportunity to further set the record straight. Arthur and his family deserve better. Thanks, again, for coming to this forum to, in your own powerful and personal way, lay out the truth that Monson has so dishonestly and deliberately misrepresented.

Steve Benson



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2014 03:32AM by steve benson.

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Posted by: imaworkinonit ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 01:10AM

It MUST be true.

Right?

But seriously, I think some people are just "story tellers" (take that any way you want). Take Joseph Smith, for example.

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Posted by: get her done ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 02:37AM

As usual, you crushed him with truth and details. Great job, as usual.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 07:25AM


Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2014 07:26AM by steve benson.

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Posted by: Anonymous User ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 07:36AM

Steve....Huzzah!

I am one of those who kept poking you for this.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2014 07:45AM by Stumbling.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 07:58AM

. . . further details.

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Posted by: Anonymous User ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 08:05AM

Steve, Monson portray's that he and Patton were childhood friends and class mates "he stood taller than any boy in the class" (not 'in his class'). Monson is two years younger than Patton - how would he have been classmates with him during their teenage years?

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 08:16AM

. . . but that Monson, being two years younger than Patton, therefore wasn't in Patton's actual class (although Monson's use of the term, "the class," clearly makes it sound like he was referring to one class and that he and Patton were both in it).

If, however, Monson was in a separate class, that would mean that Monson would have had to be aware of the heights of all the students in Patton's class, of which Monson was not a member.

This is getting complicated, perhaps making the following observation relevant:

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive."

(I'll pursue this further by reviewing other data I haven't posted yet).



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2014 08:25AM by steve benson.

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Posted by: Anonymous User ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 08:23AM

"...when FIRST we practice to deceive."

(Sir Walter Scott)


Sorry - couldn't resist!
[/schoolteacher]

LOL.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2014 08:24AM by Stumbling.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 08:25AM


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Posted by: Anonymous User ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 08:27AM

I hope you are chuckling, I only pointed that out for a chuckle.
You should note to always assume that I post wearing a cheeky grin with witticism in my heart.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 08:31AM

I guess it should come as no surprise that Monson is using fabricated stories in the same way that Paul Dunn did. Not like it's bad enough that the religion and its origins are already a lie, but then the leaders have to continue to use fabricated object lessons on top of it all.

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Posted by: ftw ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 03:43PM

well... It's probably tough to come up with new ideas for conference talks after being a GA for most of your life.

Personally, I don't understand why you'd revisit an old story, particularly one you got wrong - unless somebody was making a big deal about it. But you'd really think if you are going to correct a past record, you'd do your best to get it right the second time.

You know, like the new church essays are doing...

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 03:48PM

. . . if he doesn't somehow deal with fundamental flaws in his exaggerated storytelling. Monson still failed in that effort, as the actual facts attest. The hole is too deep that he dug for himself for him to escape from it with any meaningful degree of intact credibility.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2014 04:00PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: oldklunker ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 08:56AM

We have a family member that tommy boy talks about also. The story is mostly true but the story is off on the family members length of time to die after being told not to return to the temple. ( he was old and slowing things down, you know you have to keep those time slots spot on)

Tommy boy says he died the next day when in fact he died two weeks later.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2014 09:02AM by oldklunker.

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Posted by: quinlansolo ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 09:31AM

Because no matter how charming Monson is, the Meister Mormon Story taller shall Remain Paul H. Dunn....
I listened his tall tales from missionary casettes in Switzerland, they adored him like like an idol......then...

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 01:59PM

Don't put the Paul before the Tom. :)



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2014 04:05PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 02:52PM

"May Day for a GA! Utah Senator Makes an Emergency Phone Call: Orrin Hatch Goes to Bat for His Good Friend, Paul H. Dunn, Trying to Save Dunn's Hide from Dunn's Lies"

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,310841



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2014 02:53PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: rt ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 12:46PM

So Arthur didn't enlist in 1940 but in 1941. Somehow, I was hoping for more...

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 01:55PM

That's plenty, donchya think? Or you don't think little details like that are critical to the veracity of the Monson-mangled storyline?



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2014 04:01PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: ftw ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 03:54PM

Well, I'll admit, I was also expecting more at first.

I was thinking about the first vision accounts this morning and the church essay on them. The church essay says it's not really a big deal and they say substantially the same thing. And yet, when put on a timeline, with the changes the book of mormon, his own story of his history etc, you see that there was clearly a period of time that Joseph Smith and the church didn't believe in the godhead in the same way we do today. That is very significant and proves the vision to be fabricated.

I find that about all the church issues. Initially the problems and inconsistencies seem small and insignificant (why members don't worry about them), but if you look into them you realize that all the details are significant. Both what is said and what isn't said.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: January 09, 2014 03:57PM

. . . that while not necessarily stand-alone in terms of individual significance, when placed together in the larger picture, don't really serve to enhance or support Monson's overall and overly-ornamented version of events.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2014 04:29PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: 3X(NLI) ( )
Date: March 14, 2014 09:20AM

My father served in the Pacific Theatre during WWII. Among his memorabilia is a menu from one of the several transports involved in getting him from the US to the actual war zone. On the menu is printed the following warning:

"This Ship Will Not Turn Around"


Meaning that if you fell off the ship, they weren't turning around to rescue you.


Did Arthur Patton literally fall off of his ship?

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Posted by: Been there, too ( )
Date: March 14, 2014 10:14AM

Steve,

I really wish you would publish your essays/insights into a free e-book that is well-indexed by topic and searchable. Or at least put them into a website organized by topic.

You've developed a lot of great content over the years. I'm grateful that you've chosen to share it here. I wish it could have some of the same staying power as the CES Letter.

Maybe a tech savvy ExMo could re-purpose your writings.

BTT

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