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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 08:28PM

Snippet ......
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"To Mr. Phil Robertson:

So much to go through here – let’s start with the race thing, since that seems to be the most recent dustup:

To say you “never saw a Black person mistreated” in the Deep South in the 50’s and 60’s, is genuinely astounding. You’re talking about people who couldn’t vote, walk in the wrong part of town, drink from the wrong fountain, sit down in a diner, or show inadequate “deference” to any white trash idiot no matter how poor or stupid he was. You’re talking about people with few if any genuine rights who were consigned to those fields because they were actively excluded from anything else. You saw nothing but Black people being mistreated, and just because you never saw some white guy actually standing over them and beating them with a chain is no excuse to play dumb about it.

I’ve never really watched your show, so I don’t know much about your outlook beyond what you’ve unfortunately shared with the class in the GQ interview, but I come from the same place as you, Chief, so I’m pretty sure I know your type – and I’m willing to bet I know which side of the Obama-Tea Party divide you fall on.

And given the Tea Party tendency to hysteria about “tyranny”, apocalyptic ranting about that “armed revolt” that well may be necessary to “take our country back” and just general bitch-whininess about every stitch of the Social Safety Net, or every minor act of the public sector to, you know, actually deal with our national problems . . . then for you to say that Blacks in the pre-Civil Rights South - people who were actually oppressed, actually persecuted, actually denied representation in the government that controlled their destiny and actually restricted in life by law, social convention and the ongoing threat of violence - if they occasionally sang or joked to lift their spirits, or didn’t just break down sobbing in the goddam fields over their miserable lot in life, then they must have been happy as clams . . . makes you a fucking idiot.

And as for that mountainous spew of bile about gays . . .

The Bible uses the same word – toevah (literally “taboo”) to describe eating shellfish and wearing mixed fibers. I’m guessing you’ve never protested a Red Lobster, or complained that the cotton-poly blend in your hunting camo violated your faith. So I’m going to guess your “Bible defense” for your homophobia is so much bullshit. I’m going to guess you don’t go around thinking “I sure would love to embrace and welcome my gay brothers and sisters, but the Bible just won’t let me.”

No, I’m guessing you’re that kind of Christian, and you’re just like the millions of that kind of Christian before you – bigoted tools that just bludgeon others with their personal hatreds and prejudices, then wrap themselves in Scripture as some kind of rationalization and magical anti-criticism shield. I wish the other kind of Christians – the actual Christ-like ones – could vote you guys out, or something. Sue you for damaging the brand. You’re kind of Christian, believe me, that does just that.

By doing things, for instance, like beating up a guy and his wife, and – after a payoff kept you out of jail – deciding to “just let things lie” instead of ever having the balls to apologize and actually make things right.

Yeah. Best for last. You said stupid, bigoted stuff – but so what. That’s between you and the people you work for (more on that later). But punching a woman – that’s a thing for me. And after you bought your way out of criminal charges, you called it done. No repentance, no apology, no attempt to actually make it right. Just paid in full and move on. “Not perfect, just forgiven” – which is what your kind of Christian says when they mean “you can’t criticize me for anything I’ve done – now hold still while I judge you.”

So all told, Phil, you’re a piece of work. Glad I never bought anything from your company or your show. Sorry that A&E ever got in bed with you.

And by the way, stop crying about “free speech”. Talking to GQ because you’re the star of a hit reality show is not “free speech”, it’s “$200,000 per episode” speech, and the people writing that check have every right to insist you keep your public statements within a certain business-friendly box. You could have walked away from that gig anytime you felt right about it – and immediately said anything and everything you wanted, as loud and as often as you could.

So go do that now. Or make another duck call. Whatever. Just stop with the crybaby martyr stuff."


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/20/1264135/-My-Facebook-Note-Re-Phil-Robertson

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Posted by: Exmodad ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 09:23PM

It's a funny show. I've watched it a few times. I live in the mid-south, and can relate to his back wood culture. I wouldn't sweat what a red neck says about stuff. All yall on this forum make too much of a fuss about Phil. He's got an opinion - opinions are like $%# $%#@'s, everybody has one.

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Posted by: TooLazyToLogIn ( )
Date: January 01, 2014 09:44PM

Dad,

You don't see Dave's brilliance? Dave sure does. Look, with Dave, it's like feeding stray cats--you never get them off your porch. Dave's more than an atheist. He's also the smartest man on earth. Don't encourage him.

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Posted by: blueorchid ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 12:06PM

Yes he has an "opinion" which happens to be an ugly, hateful, racist, and now misogynistic and pedophiliac opinion since his latest about teen girls has come to light. Your comment makes you the same. Funny how it all aligns so well with the ugly, hateful, racist, misogynistic Bible.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2014 12:11PM by blueorchid.

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Posted by: Exmodad ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 01:06PM

"Yes he has an "opinion" which happens to be an ugly, hateful, racist, and now misogynistic and pedophiliac opinion since his latest about teen girls has come to light. Your comment makes you the same. Funny how it all aligns so well with the ugly, hateful, racist, misogynistic Bible."

I watched his show a few times, and I didn't see anything ugly, hateful, racist, etc. in the show. I would surprise me that a red neck hill billy has opinions that are like that. I am an athiest. I agree that the Bible, BOM, and other religious texts are at times racist, sexist, etc. As a mormon, I was racist and sexist, albeit subtely. I am not anymore though. I have never pedophilic in nature. Your opinion of me is uninformed, ugly and hateful, but you are nevertheless entitled to your opinion. I guess I could see where his biblical opinion was sexist? I didn't see anything racist, but then again, I really don't care what a red neck hill billy has to say. Why do you care to much? Why are you so hostile?

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Posted by: blueorchid ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 01:13PM

I am not hostile, I just don't suffer bigots lightly. When someone tells me as a gay man I am the gateway to everything they consider vile, even bestiality, I take umbrage.

As far as letting those kinds of opinions go--only a red-neck hillbilly, as you say--not challenging them is accepting them.

I do not have an opinion of you that you are ugly and hateful, but I am of the view that when you tolerate bigotry you are supporting it. It gets hard after a while to separate the two things when the tolerant one seems to have adopted an apologetic stance.

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Posted by: Exmodad ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 01:34PM

Wellll...you seem a little hostile to me Blue.

I think you go about your cause in the wrong way. You should chill a little. When you say things like, "Not challenging them is accepting them" - pffft..well that is just ridiculous. You lose credibility. That's not even reasonable. There are lots of reasons why someone like that would not be challenged. In my case, I'm too lazy. In most cases, people don't care what a red neck says. They don't bother. That doesn't mean I or everyone else agree with Phil. Even in Phil's situation, there are at least 300 million Americans who have not challenged Phil and you going to call all of them racist, etc. C'mon Blue.

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Posted by: blueorchid ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 01:42PM

Look up umbrage in the dictionary. Someone disagreeing with you or finding your words in appropriate does not automatically make them hostile.

Phrases like "You should chill a little" and "C'mon Blue" are not even worth taking umbrage at. Those are last resort grade school kinds of phrases.

When you have lived my life as a gay kid in the fifties until now, you can then tell me to chill.

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Posted by: Exmodad ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 01:49PM

Point well taken, but you are a tad insulting in your mannerism. Don't like "chill"? Well how about, "calm down" or as we say in the south, "simmer down." I would calm down bit. Ironically, you quickly perceive that you are being insulted, yet you use insults to defend. That seems sophmoric to me.

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Posted by: Exmodad ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 01:51PM

..and I wholeheartedly agree, someone using words like, "c'mon" and "chill" are not even worth taking umbrage at. That's my point exactly with Phil. Now your getting it.

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Posted by: blueorchid ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 02:14PM

I actually don't get it. I was raised in a Mormon environment where appeasement through manipulation is king. Don't question and Don't make waves. I am honestly not trying to be offensive, but that is what I see in your comments.

This is just my form of 'free speech' as good ole Phil would say.

I am proud that 'my people' barricaded themselves in the Stonewhall and held off the police back in 1969. Now that was some major umbrage!

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Posted by: Exmodad ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 02:33PM

Take lessons from Papaken. You are too hostile.

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Posted by: sonoma ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 01:18PM

The reason that things have changed so radically in the past few decades for gay people in this country is because we fight homophobic speech everywhere it's spoken and by whomever it is spoken by, including bigots like this Phil guy and Exmodad.

This space remains mostly homophobic free because the people here don't put up with it and call it out EVERY TIME.

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Posted by: Exmodad ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 01:36PM

I'm not a bigot, Sonoma. I don't agree with Phil R. I don't agree with the Bible or the BOM either. I am an athiest.

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Posted by: PapaKen ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 02:05PM

Exmodad, you apparently want us to "shut up" about Phil & others who've said hateful things about others. So, I looked for a quote that speaks about the inadvisability of remaining silent when there is a wrong committed, or even spoken in favor of.

I couldn't find the quote I was thinking of (I'll keep looking), but I did find some other ones for you:

“Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence.”
― Leonardo da Vinci

“When truth is replaced by silence,the silence is a lie.”
― Yevgeny Yevtushenko

“It is not easy to keep silent when silence is a lie.”
― Victor Hugo

I used to be more "live & let live." But not now. Speaking out against injustice is not only our right. It's our responsibility.

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Posted by: blueorchid ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 02:08PM

Yes. And I don't want to see children growing up with adults who think silence and letting things slide is okay.

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Posted by: anon for this ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 02:11PM

Are you as quick to speak up when the vitriol goes the other way? Somehow I doubt it.

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Posted by: blueorchid ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 02:15PM

Personal anonymous attack? Your parents must be proud.

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Posted by: anon for this ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 02:18PM

ditto to you...unless blueorchid is your name.

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Posted by: blueorchid ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 02:25PM

I was looking for your posts of the opinions and thoughts regarding the subject at hand but do not see them on this board. It makes participation much more valuable.

I like this discussion, even the words of exmodad, though we differ. It puts it all in the air, and that's good as far as I'm concerned.

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Posted by: anon for this ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 02:32PM

Of course what Phil said was ridiculous....but not any more so than many on the other side of the argument.

And of course people should speak up when real harm is being done, but this guy is just some hick redneck...so who really cares what he says. His opinions on life are completely irrelevant.

If you feel it's your duty to refute every racist, homophobic, crazy comment made in public.....you'd better quit your day job.

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Posted by: helamonster ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 02:35PM

Sorry anon, but that is incorrect. Please see Carol Merrill for a copy of our home game before you leave the studio.

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Posted by: Finally Free! ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 02:39PM

"..who really cares what he says. His opinions on life are completely irrelevant."

Really? Don't be so naive! He's one of the main characters on one of the most popular cable TV shows right now. His interview, when it went public was the topic of almost every news source available. It sparked a debate that is still being talked about weeks after he said it, not just here, but all over the web. He has been demonized and sadly in many circles, sainted. Yet you state that his opinions are completely irrelevant? I don't think you know what that word means.

He is obviously not "irrelevant". If he was, then no one would have noticed what he said. That after all would be the definition of irrelevant.

When popular and famous people speak, even the idiots, people unfortunately listen. If no one responds, then people will assume that they are right.

Grow up and learn how the world works.

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Posted by: Finally Free! ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 02:30PM

What is this "vitriol goes the other way" that you speak of? No one is stopping good old Phil from speaking... well... hopefully his PR manager is talking with him to try and save his brand, but honestly, people are actually paying him to continue speaking...

As for vitriol, do you not think that the horrible things, the vitriol, that he said doesn't deserve a response? They were pretty bad and support a powerful, yet, thankfully shrinking, bigoted population that is actively keeping rights away from a minority group. They deserved a response, and with the emotions involved (being told who you can and can not love, and you know being told that you are a gateway to bestiality, evokes a pretty strong emotion) a strong and emotional response should kind of be expected.

Responding to vitriol, is not necessarily vitriol itself. If no one speaks out against those who would withhold rights from a minority, things will never change.

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Posted by: Exmodad ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 02:09PM

Okay..good point.

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Posted by: Exmodad ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 02:12PM

No, I was addressing Blue, not everyone. I didn't want him to "shut up", but just calm down a bit. He was insulting and hostile. I like the way you get your point across without insults. You've present a good arguement Papaken. Food for thought. I really got a lot out of your qoutes, and I appreciate the calmer demeanor you present. Nice job Ken.

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Posted by: NormaRae ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 11:43AM

It just cracks me up how the Mormons have embraced this dude. First of all, they take it all so seriously, like the show is real life since it's classified "reality TV."

But even though I believe U.S. Mormons are more educated as a whole than evangelical Christians, they don't seem to have any more Constitutional knowledge. They think someone violated Duckman's right to free speech, not understanding that it's the exact opposite. The fact that he could say the things he has said in public and not be arrested, show that he is the poster boy for free speech.

But I think the reason they like it is because they can say they support his "right to free speech" because they LOVE the things he said. He says what they are feeling in their racist, homophobic, misogynistic little brains. But since they don't want to say, "Yay, you go Phil. Tell them heathen homos that we don't want marriage equality in the state WE own, and we agree that women should be young and home plucking our ducks and we want to go back to Jim Crow and hate that our church is trying to make us pretend like we don't believe Blacks are inferior," they can hide behind someone else and say they support him because he's talking about Christian values. When he's not.

Mormons aligning themselves with the teabaggers is the best thing that could happen to help hasten the mormon implosion.

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Posted by: schlock ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 12:37PM

Deep Misunderstanding of the Constitution:
✔ evangelical christians
✔ mormons

Mysogonistic:
✔ evangelical christians
✔ mormons

Racist:
✔ evangelical christians
✔ mormons

Homophobic:
✔ evangelical christians
✔ mormons

Sanctioned Pedophilia:
✔ evangelical christians
✔ mormons

Deep Misunderstanding of the Old Testament:
✔ evangelical christians
✔ mormons

Deep Misunderstanding of the New Testament:
✔ evangelical christians
✔ mormons

Deep Misunderstanding of the Scientific Method:
✔ evangelical christians
✔ mormons

Deep Misunderstanding of the Historical Jesus (if ever there was):
✔ evangelical christians
✔ mormons

Sexually Dysfunctional or Pathological
✔ evangelical christians
✔ mormons

Socially Dysfunctional or Pathological
✔ evangelical christians
✔ mormons

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Posted by: NormaRae ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 12:58PM

Yeah, if only them Evangels didn't misunderestimate the dangers of hot drinks. I mean hot drinks with caffiene. I mean hot drinks that even if decaffinated, look and smell like hot drinks with caffiene. Oops, I really meant hot or cold drinks, caffienated or decaffienated that are a dark color often confused with drinks that are caffienated and hot. Unless they contain bubbles. No, I think I really mean coffee and tea.

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Posted by: confused again ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 11:47AM

What does this have to do with recovering from Mormonism?

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Posted by: Finally Free! ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 12:08PM

A lot of us recovering mormons have found that a major portion of recovery is a re-examination of ourselves and how we interact with the world. It has caused a great deal of debate, both inner and outer. A lot of us have re-examined our social understandings and re-evaluate our moral underpinnings.

Debates of this nature, regarding religion and how it plays a role in society, pop culture, and government are a healthy way to further these examinations. Phil Robertson used religion to back his bigoted view of the world and then attempted to validate it and to hide from the repercussions using the common "Free Speech" misunderstanding. Talking about this here can be helpful in understanding how things work without the veil of mormonism clouding our thoughts. It's a way of "testing the waters" to see how we feel about things while not under the all controlling mormon thought generator telling us how to feel about them.

Also, the admins get to decide what is appropriate to post here, if you feel it's inappropriate, please feel free to report it and the admins will review it. Otherwise, no one if forcing you to read it.

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Posted by: Exmodad ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 01:38PM

I guess that was kinda my point too...I was confused.

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Posted by: Surrender Dorothy ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 02:34PM

Are you trying to correlate how people recover from being in a controlling church? It's difficult for some to give up their imaginary priesthood power and their need to preside over the program. If you don't think the topic of a thread is appropriate, report it. The admins make the decision.

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Posted by: blueorchid ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 12:04PM

Now that's the way words were meant to be used. Very powerful letter. Thanks for that Dave the Atheist.

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Posted by: Kentish ( )
Date: January 02, 2014 01:02PM

Whatever one thinks of Robertson (and I don't have too high an opinion of the man) I am so pleased that he can be attacked without any of the same sweeping generalizations, bias and general
"hate" he is accused.

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