In 1980, I, along with my then-spouse and our small family moved from Virginia to Arizona, where I was soon to start a new job. We stopped off during our final leg in Salt Lake City. At the time, my parents were in temporary living quarters, awaiting refurbishing of their new abode up on the East Bench of the Salt Lake Valley. Until that was done, they were living in a small home, directly next door to a house that was occupied by then-president of the Mormon Church, Spencer W. Kimball, and his wife, Camilla.

It was on Sunday when we pulled all we owned in a U-Haul truck over to my folks' borrowed home. We were on a tight schedule, heading down to Arizona the following morning, so we had to keep moving--literally. My parents had given us some of their old furniture to use in our own home. It was in their house next to the Kimballs and, given our time constraints, I decided to go ahead and pack it into the back of our U-Haul, even though it was the Sabbath.

That same day, a guest at our parents' temporary residence happened to have been my grandfather, then-President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. He had come over for a meal with the family. Being a good Mormon boy at that time, I felt nagging pangs of guilt at the thought of packing up housewares on the Lord's day. So bad did I feel about this that I decided it was worth justifying my actions to my grandfather, in the hope that he would see our predictament as a good enough reaon for violating the thou-shalt-keep-the-Sabbath-Day-holy rule.

So, I said to him, "Grandpa, sometimes you have to pull the ox out of the mire." I should have known better. He responded unsympathetically, "Sometimes it's you who put the ox in the mire in the first place." Ouch. Thank you for your support.

Despite his tough talk, I still had a new job to get to, so I went ahead with the van-loading anyway. It was late afternoon as I began to pile my parents' donated furniture into the U-Haul. As I was standing at the back of the truck, who should come up to the fence behind me but Spencer W. Kimball. I felt like a kid caught raiding the cookie jar, as all my sins passed before my eyes. Fortunately, standing in his backyard just a few feet from me, Kimball's demeanor put me at ease soon enough. He was smiling and pleasant, dressed in a long-sleeved shirt and tie, no suit coat. Still a bit nervous, however, and feeling a sense of guilt mixed with embarrassment, I explained to the Lord's Prophet, Seer and Next-Door Neighbor that I was having to load up the U-Haul on Sunday because me and Mary Ann needed to head south to Arizona early the next morning.

I further felt compelled to relate to Kimball the exchange earlier that day between my grandfather and me about my decision to go ahead and commit labor inside a U-Haul truck on the Lord's day of rest. I told Kimball how I had explained to my grandfather that sometimes one is faced with the necessity of pulling the ox out of the mire. I then repeated to Kimball my grandfather's response: "Sometimes it's you who put the ox in the mire in the first place." Kimball smiled and said,"That sounds like something your grandfather would say."

Wow--and whew.

With that behind us, Kimball and I exchanged a few more pleasantries there at his fence, then he excused himself and walked back into his house through the rear porch door. I returned to my task of stuffing furniture into the back of the truck, as Satan looked on approvingly. A few minutes later, Kimball emerged from his house, walked across his backyard to the fence, smiled and handed me over the fence a plate of fresh tomatoes. He told me his wife Camilla had picked them but didn't let me in on whether she had done so on Sunday. I thanked him. Kimball smiled and went back into his house.

It was an interesting and insightful experience. My grandfather had lectured me on breaking the Sabbath. In contrast, Kimball had not passed judgment, instead letting me know that he would have expected my grandfather do say what he did, then gave me tomatoes from his own garden. As they say, by their fruits ye shall know them (yes, tomatoes are a fruit). And as the Savior said, he who is without sin, let him cast the first tomato. On that particular day, back when I was still in the tight grip of the not-too-hip Mormon Church, I thought Kimball was one cool dude.

My grandfather? Well, I figured he was just being himself.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2013 04:56PM by steve benson.

That was a good read with my afternoon tea break.

I was waiting, though, for one of the Lord's Anointed to HELP YOU move the furniture, either your grandfather or SWK. Apparently, if you had waited for them you'd still be in the back of the truck. What a disappointment. I love it when The Big Guy bends the rules. In this case, he didn't, except for the tomatoes - maybe - by default. Cute, but no cigar, as in the end you were still left alone to U-Haul the stuff by yourself, it sounds like.

I have always, ALWAYS found it WEIRD beyond comprehension that many Mormons assume the default position on a Sunday, asleep in their beds, as if that is a satisfactory way to spend a Sabbath day. Permissible - yes. Fruitful - nope. What a WASTE. Wasting time like that is evil to me, not spending an entire day in useful pursuits, which makes a lot more sense.

Glad you made it to AZ. Despite the company you were keeping! :)

(Why is it that my shortest posts always seem to need the most editing?!! I think I've nailed it now).



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2013 05:02PM by Nightingale.

Yah I do see yer point, really I do, yet -
You know, that Spencer did not condemn - given the judgmental philosophy adopted by this 'church' -

I mean, that is simply amazing to me.
You cannot pay to get data like this.
Unrecorded, this data would be lost to time.
Hence, Priceless.

It is a real education to me.
I've learned.

Now I have to explain/incorporate that Spence was actually a good guy,
but faithfully held the helm in what I consider is an evil organization.
Why, how?

Yet it is right to know what is real.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2013 05:20PM by zenjamin.

This is priceless.

It gives an insight into who these really were.

Having never KNOWN any of these am forced to rely upon filtered third-hand data that has been sifted by the propagandists to a lifeless powder.
And in the absence of real data the brain constructs what it will about these to fill the gaps - which may not be at all accurate.

It helps the perspective: it makes them human.
These may have been just as duped, after all.

its interesting to hear first hand accounts of the Lard's annointed. The GAs seem so aloof, probably a god-like image they prefer. Thanks for sharing.

I've always had the attitude of 'don't sweat the small stuff.' Van-loading on a Sunday wouldn't have bothered me at all. But I do have friends who would have felt the need to try and instill shame in me. Wouldn't have worked though.

I never had a problem with going out to dinner with family on a Sunday, buying gasoline, or stopping at the store on the way home from church to buy a chocolate bar. It always appalled my friends, but it never seemed like a big deal to me. Hey, I'd been to church. I'd done my duty.

Maybe it's because I grew up with a non-member family and we always went to the ice cream parlour on Sundays after dinner. So I never had the same sort of Sunday-is-the-Sabbath-Day attitude as my other Mormon friends did.

I love you, Steve Benson. Thank you.

Ramen.

Heh heh, I too was waiting for SOMEONE to help you with the loading. Guess we can say that tomatoes sort of covered that, in a way!. I suppose your grandfather may have felt that since you were his grandson he had more right to chastise you. Never mind, it was a GREAT story!

Kimball had a heart. Grandpa was a loveable curmudgeon I suppose.

Great story.

Having grown up with no restrictions concerning the Sabbath being taught in my home, with your telling of this story, I found myself wondering just how grueling this would have been to have heard this stuff day in and day out at home as well as at church. It is hard for me to relate, perhaps because it sounds intolerable. The repetition at church, when I went, was gruesome enough.

While I do not think, Steve, that your grandfather was condemning you but giving you advice, I think a good reply was what Christ said: "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbah". Moreover, the old law no longer applies. His disciples were not pulling out an ox but picking grain.

. . . to plan my Sabbaths better. Spence knew it, too, essentially reacting with, a there-goes-Ez-again.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2013 07:10PM by steve benson.

AND that

Is what made the 'Spence' cool.

Kimball must have been quite the mixed bag as an individual. I came to that conclusion while researching quotes for a recent thread of mine. I always thought of him as being quite the stick-in-the-mud, but as your story illustrates, that may not be an entirely rounded picture of him.

Thanks for sharing, Steve.

. . . distinct impression as I tried to plow through it as a teenager, that I was reading a painfully- and artificially-forced screed against natural human sexuality coming from someone with his own sexual (and perhaps homosexually-inclined) hang-ups. He hit me as being a seriously-conflicted dude entangled in a case of deeply personal and severe sexual "sin" obsession. The book, to me, sounded hollow, preachy and out-of-touch. I put it down and never finished it. I think Spence was not comfortable in his own skin. Plus, he was a rabid racist but, hey, nobody/s perfect.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2013 07:36PM by steve benson.

I agree with you, Steve. His views on human sexuality were horrible. Reading what he wrote made me feel very sorry for his wife.

steve benson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He hit me as being a
> seriously-conflicted dude entangled in a case of
> deeply personal and severe sexual "sin" obsession.

A cult will do that to an earnest man....

There are few true villains. Most are just guys in the wrong place at the wrong time, reacting in the wrong way.

"I was waiting, though, for one of the Lord's Anointed to HELP YOU move the furniture".

How OLD do you think SWK was when this happened? Really expect an aged man to help out in moving?

Some things make us look silly.

Excuse me for not knowing, by heart, the birthdates of these dudes. I wasn't an ox stuck in the Mormon mire so a lot of the detail escapes me, even now.

Besides, I wasn't being completely, totally LITERAL in my comment about these guys helping. They could have HELPED by not judging a man who was trying to earn a living and look after his family and get to work on time.

Even with the tomatoes, I might have felt somewhat judged.

But, each to his own - interpretation - or whatever.

Sheesh. Some days you can't write ANYTHING on this board without having to defend yourself six ways from Sunday. Just once in a while, I'd like to write something where somebody says hey, I know where you're coming from.

Or else say nothing at all.

Really.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2013 10:11PM by steve benson.

Reminds me of my dad, who likewise believed it was sinful to work on Sunday - yet demanded my mom cook him a big Sunday dinner every week.

The irony made my head hurt, even as a kid.

I remember several church presidents.. Starting with Mckay. Of them all, I think I liked Kimball best. He was a man with a good heart. Many people I speak with remember Hinkley as their favorite, but I saw through his "aw, shucks" personability. I think it was contrived. Kimball, though deluded, was a guy who was clearly genuine.

"I returned to my task of stuffing furniture into the back of the truck, as Satan looked on approvingly."


"He told me his wife Camilla had picked them but didn't let me in on whether she had done so on Sunday."

An interesting story told in a humorous way.

My Grandfather was a childhood & lifelong friend of SWK. They we're raised together in AZ.

I rememeber at family gatherings at Christmas it was always a big deal when SWK would call my Grandpa. This was in the late 60's.

The thing I always recall is how it was a family joke that he SWK always called collect. It was his way of ribbing my Grandfather.

I too met him a few times & thought him to be personable & genuine.

Thanks for a great story Steve.

I see 1 of 2 situations at play:

1. LDS can be much more condemning when dealing with their "own" (family members); or,

2. President Kimball could allow another member of choose their own Sabbath observance because his eldest son was "less active."

For many years my favorite scripture was Ezekiel 20:20 (my clear vision scripture) and Colossians 2:16. Basically, their theme is the we each define our Sabbath observance (and many other LDS commandments). I kept these scriptures bookmarked for quick reference when I needed to get an LDS zealot to back off (like a crucifix for vampires).

For many LDS they associate their family members' faithfulness (or perceived faithfulness) through how they keep arbitrary Church standards (that may not even be commandments). In any event, each person through their own agency decides how strictly they will observe these standards (if at all). That does not deter zealots from judging those "less faithful."

Many members felt I should be "commanding my posterity" in numerous things they thought we were deficient in. I never could. First, even as youth, these standards were their business. Second, I knew I could only "command" my family so many times about so many things: why waste my "commandments" on such trivial matters?

Therefore, President Benson may have felt justified intervening with his grandson on the Sabbath while President Kimball could leave him alone.

Second, if President Kimball had a "less active" close relative, he may have already processed the fact that each person observes Church commandments according to his own views. Who knows why someone is loading furniture on the Sabbath? They may be ultra-TBM but decided this is the only way for the family and some furniture to arrive on time; they may be cafeteria LDS, keeping commandments unless they are too "inconvenient;" they could be less active, but maintaining contact with their LDS relatives. In any case, this would be for Steve and his wife to decide - not President Kimball nor President Benson.

Some LDS live within a Church bubble: everyone they "know" is strict LDS and is expected to keep LDS appearances. Until someone breaks from the family mold, they never even consider that LDS activity is a personal choice.

After listening to Edward Kimball (on Mormonstories.org), Spencer Kimball's youngest son, I found a new appreciation for Spencer Kimball. If Edward is truthful and correct (which I suspect he is), Spencer Kimball was anything but a "rabid racist." In fact, it appears that he spent quite a bit of time contemplating the priesthood and blacks issue before bringing it up to his counselors and the eventual change.

From what I remember, Spencer Kimball's oldest son, also named Spencer, did not just go inactive. He and his family completely left the church and he even tried to convince his father and mother that the church wasn't true. It created a huge rift between father and son that was never reconciled.

Another sad story of families being separated by the effects of the cult.

"The work is unfolding, and blinded eyes begin to see, and scattered people begin to gather. I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today as against that of only 15 years ago. Truly the scales of darkness are falling from their eyes, and they are fast becoming a WHITE AND DELIGHTSOME people (2 Ne. 30:6).

“In this mission alone there are 8,400-plus members of the Church. As I visited this area 15 years ago, there were 94. 'Are they faithful?' I am asked. And the answer is, 'Not all of them. They are just about like their WHITE cousins in the stakes of Zion.' 'Are they making headway?' And the answer is, 'Yes. Perhaps relatively greater headway than we ourselves.' . . .

“The day of the Lamanites is here! Young WHITE missionaries throughout the Church are happy in the service, glad that they were called to this special mission, some planning to change their college majors when they return from their missions so they can work among the Indians.

“I see a dependent people becoming independent; for example, I see them coming in their pickups to meetings, whereas a decade ago they needed to be picked up by the missionaries, fed, and coddled. Some still must learn, but they are making progress; for instance, a party was arranged by two missionaries—the Indian people to bring the food, the elders to furnish the punch. When they assembled, they had only punch to drink. Later another party was arranged—the Indians to bring the food and the elders to bring the punch. They had both food and drink. They are learning.

“We called for a picture of the Indian elders. 20 of them came,—five full-blood Navajo boys, and 15 who were part Navajo and Apache and Ute and Sioux. One of the Navajo elders whose mother and family lived less than a hundred miles away in the same mission had not asked for leave to go and visit them, and he had served eight months in the mission. One Indian elder said: "The first missionaries planted a tree on the reservation years ago. Now the tree is bearing fruit—Navajo elders. The young tree yielded little fruit, but the aging tree more fruit—more elders.

“There was the Navajo elder who testified of his happiness and said that when in battle—I think it was in Korea—he had dreamed one night that he was with his parents back on the reservation, but he awakened to find himself in mud and water and fire. Now he is in the midst of another dream, a dream so glorious, he said, that he hopes he will never awaken from it.

“These Indian elders are well-groomed, neat, smiling, and equal to their WHITE companions—handsome and sincere—some struggling in the acquisition of the difficult English language, and others coming through the Utah Placement Program speaking perfect English and displaying the best of our own culture. WHITE elders feel fortunate when they are lucky enough to have a Navajo companion.

"I see these Indian youth praying and preaching and administering to the sick, and I remember the statement of the Prophet Joseph: 'Take Jacob Zundell and Frederick H. Moeser . . . and send them to Germany and when you meet an Arab send him to Arabia; when you find an Italian send him to Italy; and a Frenchman, to France; or an Indian, that is suitable, send him among the Indians. Send them to the different places where they belong.' (DHC 5:368.)

"At last the Indians ARE SUITABLE. I heard them bear their witness, saw them shed tears of joy, heard them express their affection for loved ones. I saw Indian boys actually coming in to the president to offer their services as missionaries. That couldn't have happened a decade ago. As we look into the future, surely we shall see thousands of Indian missionaries, for through our various agencies we are now training probably three thousand little Indian boys in our various departments who are growing toward missionary work. Very soon there will be an Indian boy paired off in missionary work with each WHITE boy, and this will happen in the other Lamanite missions, I am sure."

(“The Day of the Lamanites,” Spencer W. Kimball of the Council of the Twelve Apostles, “Conference Report,” October 1960, pp. 32-37, at: http://scriptures.byu.edu/gettalk.php?ID=1091&era=yes , enphasis added)



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2014 11:58AM by steve benson.